}

Is the ADL on crack?

Proposed exterior of Cordoba House Community Center

Just my opinion…, but is the ADL on crack?

Has their recent press release that opposes the building of an Islamic Center in downtown Manhattan undermined decades of good works?

The ADL, which has fought bigotry and worked for diversity in America and internationally, weighed in this week on the planed construction of a mosque and Islamic community center near (how near is near?) the former World Trade Center site in downtown Manhattan. Their press release starts out fine, saying,

We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship. We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry

And then WHAM … the ADL continues, because of pain and the healing process, and unique circumstances, they “believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.”

They close with:

Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.

Really? REALLY? So, perceived pain trumps equal rights? I really will have to remember that the next time a group tries to build a Jewish institution in an area that is still healing, or if “white interlopers” (a Rev. Al Sharpton term) attempt to open a story in a currently predominantly non-white area. What happened to all those words about not being at war with “Islam”?

What is that I hear? All those ADL campaigns for understanding and equality being flushed down a toilet. But that is just my opinion…

61 Comments

  1. larry

    7/30/2010 at 11:04 am

    (1) Dear ADL… if the Cordoba House cannot be 3 blocks from the northern boudary of the former WTC, can it be 5 blocks away? 10 blocks? Is there a range or zone in which Moslem institutions should be excluded?

    (2) Dear ADL… I lost a lot of my $$ with Bernie Madoff. I am having unique pain and suffering. He was on the board of several Jewish institutions and the Chairman of one of Yeshiva University’s schools. Is it okay if all yeshivas are therefore banned from locating within a mile of my residence? Thanks.

  2. AlexK

    7/30/2010 at 11:20 am

    I think that’s a bad comparison. Furthermore, you failed to mention any of the other conditions at in this story. Does it matter to you who’s behind this mosque and what they have said in the past, or is multiculturalism and political correctness so black and white like it was for Shirley Sherrod’s protectors?

  3. Larry

    7/30/2010 at 11:34 am

    The PR release makes no mention of who is “behind” the center. It is very general. So.. i gather that you are saying that there should be a litmus test. I, personally, don’t believe in that. It is not “political correctness,” it is what is right in American society.

  4. AlexK

    7/30/2010 at 11:56 am

    I think it’s obvious that idealism has no correlation with common sense. So there really are no exceptions in your world? Everything is black and white like on paper?

  5. AlexK

    7/30/2010 at 12:37 pm

    Even if 80% of the information in this article were lies, it would still be enough of a reason to fight against this mosque: http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=3453

    And you don’t think there is something a bit creepy about the name and reference to Cordoba?

    Since your world is so black and white, answer me this Algebraic riddle please: If Rauf supported the Gaza Flotilla, and you support Rauf, does that mean you support the Gaza Flotilla? I know the world is not that black and white, but you said there should be no litmus test.

  6. SBE

    7/30/2010 at 2:29 pm

    Is this the same ADL that decided swastikas are no longer to be considered anti-semitic? (http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/national/adl_downgrades_swastika_jewish_hate_symbol)

    The same ADL that decided that just because Fred “Jew Finder” Malek hasn’t mentioned it in awhile, we should consider his Nixon activities by-gones (http://www.slate.com/id/2058486)

    Wow. With advocates like these…

  7. larry

    7/30/2010 at 3:08 pm

    I am not in the habit of banning the establishment of religious or cultural centers in the City of New York based on the religious or political beliefs of its staff members. There are some religions or sects or religious leaders who are prejudiced, intolerant, support the conversion of the world to only their belief, racist, homophobic, insular, leftist, rightist, communitarian, or better or worse; but in America, I support their right to purchase property and assemble and establish a meeting place.

  8. Moishe Pippick

    7/30/2010 at 3:28 pm

    There are no end of offensive religious groups operating freely (as they should) in NYC – the Black Hebrews, various Hasidic sects, etc. In fact in my old neighborhood of Jackson Heights – a heavily Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani neighborhood – I saw a demonstration by a radical jihadi group (I also saw them once outside the Indian consulate on Fifth Avenue). My own Rabbi says some pretty offensive things some times. That’s life. None of them are breaking the law. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion. This is America folks.

  9. avi

    7/30/2010 at 5:57 pm

    the adl has been irrelevant for years. foxman’s turned the entire organization into his own personal army. they rant about “anti-israel bias”, rant about some teenagers tagging something, rant about youtube comments, but ignore actual cases of bigotry. bizarre stuff.

    for the record, the “proposed mosque” is already a mosque. they’re just trying to expand it by building a neighboring center out of an old burlington coat factory, because their membership is growing. and it isn’t at ground zero.

    i suppose that adl/newt/etc believe that if the muslims can’t expand their religious center, they will cease to exist.

  10. Raeefa

    7/30/2010 at 6:12 pm

    The initiators of the mosque obviously have the right to build it – and some opponents of the plan have undoubtedly made bigoted remarks. But I’m a little peeved at the Al Sharpton comparison.

    His (and his supporters’) offense at “white interlopers” is based on false perceptions and conspiracy theories. Jewish (and other white or Asian or whatever) small businesses in black neighborhoods were not inherently doing anything wrong; therefore, any anger is utterly unjustified. The anger of 9/11 victims’ families is, in contrast, a result of a terrorist attack that occurred not too long ago.

    While the pain of these families doesn’t at all justify preventing Cordoba House’s backers to open a mosque, comparing their legitimate grief to the political expedient histrionics of Sharpton and Co. is absurd and offensive.

  11. DK

    7/31/2010 at 8:29 am

    The ADL has tried to be a nationalist Jewish organization while feigning to be an ecumenical organization including all minorities.

    This is simply increasingly untenable, and serves neither the specific Jewish interests, nor the big-tent victimology interests.

  12. DK

    7/31/2010 at 8:33 am

    In addition to building an Islamic center, why don’t we just put up a big sign on all landmark skyscrapers in major American cities that read, “Bomb here for recognition!”

  13. ck

    7/31/2010 at 12:01 pm

    The terrorists responsible for 9/11 did what they did because they hate America and what it stands for. A big part of what America stands for is the concept of freedom; personal, religious – you name it. A mosque near ground zero is about one of the best ways I can think of to spit in the eyes of the terrorists. The ADL is just becoming more and more of an embarrassment.

  14. Curtis

    7/31/2010 at 1:43 pm

    How caring and even-handed you are to killers!

    Never mind that the core of protesters are the relatives of those who died. I guess you’re speaking for them, since they lack your incredibly stupid belief that the muslim’s purpose is integration and freedom of religion. Of course, you’re probably relying on the mufti’s incredible show of tolerance to Jews.

    Let’s not forget all those synogogues being built in Saudi Arabia? Oh. I forgot. The Jews were kicked out of Arab lands circa 1948 without their property, and sometimes, lives; so I guess there’s not that much need for synogogues in Saudi Arabia.

    You’ll ignore sharia, taqiyah, history, evidence of the scum behing the mosque and what their ties are, honor killings, what’s happening in Europe, Iran’s plan to annihilate Jews and Israel, Ahmadinejad’s dedication to religious insanity, Hamas, killing in the streets and dancing afterwards to celebrate it and who is doing it (its not non-muslims): so, if you want to grant freedom of religion to these killers, we will offer you as our amabassador of peace to Iran. Ready to travel there since you believe the muslims just care so much about peace and tolerance.

    How many holocaust seminars do you think the cordoba house will sponsor?

  15. ck

    7/31/2010 at 2:59 pm

    Curtis: The Jewish exodus from Arab lands happened circa 1956, not 1948. I am not a Muslim and I do not believe in Islam, a religion that I have a number of issues with. Similarly, I am not a Christian and I have issues with that religion as well. Who can forget Christianity’s greatest hits? Blood libel, oppression, expulsion, crusades, pogroms, inquisitions and of course, the Holocaust perpetrated predominantly by Christians. But just like I believe that most Christians are decent people, experience has shown me the same about Muslims. Freedom of religion is freedom of religion – it has to be extended to all – that’s the American way. That’s what drove the 9/11 terrorists to do what they did. If you abrogate that freedom because of what they did, then the terrorists have already won. Duh.

  16. froylein

    7/31/2010 at 3:18 pm

    Curtis, what exactly do you think is happening in Europe? Spoiler alert: it’s not happening.

    CK, most top and many low-rank Nazis were Atheist.

  17. DK

    7/31/2010 at 3:31 pm

    Please stop this nonsense that if we don’t establish an Islamic Center near Ground Zero the terrorists have won. Stop it. It’s silly.

    The terrorists did not attack us in order to make a downtown cultural center. Okay?

    Jesus.

  18. DK

    7/31/2010 at 3:40 pm

    Since the orchestrator and so many of the participants of 9/11 were Saudi, how about first we open a Jewish cultural center in Mecca? Because that sure as shit would send a “the terrorists didn’t win” message a lot stronger than building one near Ground Zero.

    Open a Jewish cultural center in Mecca, and then you Zionists can get the Islamic cultural center you so passionately wish for.

  19. ck

    8/1/2010 at 2:17 am

    froylein: Most of the perpetrators and facilitators of the Holocaust were Christian.

    DK: “The terrorists did not attack us in order to make a downtown cultural center. Okay?” They most certainly did not. They attacked us because they hate our freedom. By curtailing our freedom, we hand them a victory. The analogy is pretty simple and it has nothing to do with a JCC in Saudi Arabia. Sheesh.

  20. froylein

    8/1/2010 at 3:43 am

    Nope, you are not Christian anymore per definition the moment you believe or do certain things. To pursue a career among the Nazis’ inner circle, you officially had to be Atheist and not member of any Christian church. There was a strong electorate in favour of the Nazis among Protestants, that’s true (that’s because both Luther and Melanchthon mandated that state authority must be obeyed), agreed, but the state system was Atheist and anyone involved with it was not Christian anymore by definition (official definition as well). (Nantionalsocialism and Stalinism have both been acknowledged as Atheist dictatorships.) There is no hereditary religious adherence in Christianity as there is in Judaism, so you could compare it to Orthodoxy: if you believe or do certain things (kashrut, sex without the intention of procreation, women’s right to choose, but to name a few common topics that can easily determine your religious stance), you are not Orhodox per definition no matter how you bend it.

    • ck

      8/1/2010 at 11:46 am

      The Holocaust was facilitated by ordinary citizens who either looked away or actively participated as soldiers, camp guards, police, factory owners and employees, builders, Doctors, nurses etc. All of German Society was to blame as well as all those countries that further participated like Poland, France, Austria, Ukraine etc. The inner circle formulated the plans but it was the average man on the street that, but for a few exceptions, allowed it to happen. So all of Nazi occupied Europe (except for what, Bulgaria?) was excommunicated by their respective Churches? Uhm no. Christians perpetrated the Holocaust. Deal with it.

  21. DK

    8/1/2010 at 9:46 am

    ck,

    Anytime the Muslims conquer an area, they build a mosque. I don’t believe your average Mohammad is going understand (or at least, really care) that this is a cultural center, or that it isn’t exactly on ground zero. Rather, it may symbolize something more akin to al-Aqsa, or the Great Mosque of Córdoba. A symbol of victory, or at least, theological ownership.

    As if you don’t know all this.

  22. Steve

    8/1/2010 at 11:24 am

    Symbols are important both ways.

    The Muslims want to symbolize their victory over the WTC and in a larger sense America by having their buildings so close to ground zero.

    • ck

      8/1/2010 at 11:47 am

      Steve. That’s ridiculous. Unless of course you can show that those behind the Cordoba House support international terrorism, in which case, arrest them. But you can’t say they are terrorists or support 9/11 merely because they are Muslims. Sheesh. I’ll even take it one step further. For all I care they can actively express support for 9/11 and it still won’t change my mind. As long as they are not actually breaking laws, they can say whatever they like. They can practice their religion however and wherever they like. That’s free speech and it’s again a fundamental part of the American democracy the perpetrators of 9/11 hated.

  23. froylein

    8/1/2010 at 12:15 pm

    Deal with it; once you do or believe certain things, you are not a member of a specific club anymore even if you’ve bought valid membership or the membership exists on paper or you believe yourself to be a member.

    BTW, all of the world was to blame. Nobody entered the war to save Jews. But you should read up on the second-most active group in resistance. Those people did that because of their beliefs; to belittle their efforts and beliefs is downright insulting to them.

  24. David K from Philly

    8/1/2010 at 1:35 pm

    I particularly love CK’s hypocrisy here:

    CK: “All of German Society was to blame…”

    CK: “But you can’t say they are terrorists or support 9/11 merely because they are Muslims.”

    So, because they were German, every German in the past was to blame for the Holocaust. But, today, you can’t blame every Muslim for 9/11 because, well, they’re Muslim and you just can’t do that!

    Frankly, I would have no problem with this mosque but I believe in an America that supports the rights of individuals over communities. Multiculturalism is tantamount to Marxism and socialism. Putting the needs of the group before the needs of the individual is distasteful and I would never support it. Classic liberalism used to believe in an ascension of the individual but, unfortunately, “progressives” and Leftists have hijacked “liberalism” for their own agenda.

    The individuals in this case, those who lost loved ones in 9/11, take precedence over the Muslim community’s desire to build a cultural center.

    If those that support this cultural center have ties to terrorist organizations, then that’s all the more reason not to let it happen.

  25. uncle joe mccarthy

    8/1/2010 at 2:26 pm

    its very simple

    whether you like the cultural center or not, unless there is a zoning law against building it…it cannot be stopped

    to attempt to do so would open the door for those who wish to block the construction of shuls and yeshivas (and in the past, many have tried)

    i dont understand where foxman is coming from

    im just hoping that a cia connected contractor gets the gig, and plants listening devices all over the building…. cuz you can bet your bottom dollar at least one terror plot will be hatched from the site

  26. uncle joe mccarthy

    8/1/2010 at 2:30 pm

    btw….the building will not be in the shape of a mosque

    there will be no call tower (or whatever they call that thing they scream from)

    big diff from the dome of the rock

    and once it is built, new yorkers will be free to protest daily…right in front of the building

    cuz we live in america

  27. DK

    8/1/2010 at 3:05 pm

    a fundamental part of the American democracy

    I love it when Canadian-Israelis tell me what’s important for my country.

    Anyway, looking forward to seeing you here in a couple of weeks ON YOUR TIYUL!

  28. jkaplb

    8/3/2010 at 12:39 am

    Look back 33 years to Skokie and the Neo-Nazi group who wanted to march through a town that was about 60% Jewish. The ACLU decided to support the Neo-Nazis despite the traditional support and funding provided by the Jewish community. It was a move that cost the ACLU dearly, as their membership dropped significantly. The leadership said “the Neo-Nazis have the right” and the membership said “they may have the rights, but it’s not right…and not on our dime.” Foxman essentially said the same thing that a generation of former ACLU supporters said when they voted with their dollars.

    Probably worth adding a bit more context to the discussion: http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Interfaith/Mosque_Ground_Zero.htm

    Executive Directors of organizations come and go. Abe Foxman won’t be the last and he is certainly not the first to head ADL. Agree or disagree with Foxman, but take a longer view on what the ADL does locally. For those of you who live in NY or other “Jewish” areas, you may not need the support of ADL, but in my part of the country, ADL just helped get a local school district to change the start of the school year from Rosh Hashanah to a few days later. They do a lot of great work on our behalf.

    • ck

      8/3/2010 at 1:05 am

      Josh! See you soon eh? The ACLUs position on Skokie was brave and principled. There is no way, given the way free speech is a constitutional imperative in the US, to have prevented the Nazi march on Skokie. You either believe in free speech or you don’t. You can’t just believe in it when it’s convenient. Same with the Muslim Community Center in New York. They have the right to build it, no laws are being broken, and so there is no legal way to prevent its construction. Folks can protest all they like – it doesn’t matter.

  29. Bomb

    8/3/2010 at 7:13 am

    If Muslims really want to bring a message of peace and love over the 9/11 victims. How about beginning by passionately denouncing Islamic terrorism. Publicly distancing themselves from radical Islam. Regularly calling out Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations.

    The only comments I ever seem to hear from them is about how much I should feel bad for them about “Islamophobia”. They like to complain about how someone equated them with a terrorist, but other than that I’ve rarely heard a Muslim say anything bad about Islamic terrorists. They seem to be more interested in intentionally provoking debates over “Islamophobia” so they can make strategic advance against other countries and religions. Opposing a Muslim’s hatred of the West is now considered racist itself. This is precisely how they think, opposing Allah is Islamophobic, and they are entitled to openly hate whomever they chose.

  30. AlexK

    8/3/2010 at 11:07 am

    I never said nor implied that I think this mosque/cultural center should be stopped by legal, violent, or any other means necessary. What I have said elsewhere is that the (shady, terrorist supporting/excusing) people behind it should see all of this passionate opposition/negative PR, and use common sense as well as sensitivity (which they always complain there isn’t enough of towards them) and build it in another location, away from this sacred ground. But since they are Islamists, their goal is to do the opposite and put up this flag declaring victory over the West.

    Otherwise, what I have seen in this thread from “openminded” liberal American (and Canadian) Jews is what I would title:

    “Idealism over Common Sense” or “Rigid Dogma and Political Correctness over Self-Preservation” and other offshoots of that. You guys will never change that line of thinking. It’s contrary to liberalism.

  31. Midwest Mom

    8/3/2010 at 1:58 pm

    I’m with the ADL on this one. Bending over backwards to proponents of the Islamic Center will accomplish no lessening of Muslim hatred. The choice of a location for an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center terrorism is deliberately assaultive. There may or may not be a legal way to block construction, but the ADL has a right to speak on behalf of the victims of terrorism and against the particular location chosen for this center.

  32. Tori

    8/6/2010 at 1:36 am

    The ADL’s position is the correct one. THey have subsequently said they would not try to block the mosque’s construction and earlier stated that the imam has every legal right to build the mosque.

    THe imam behind this mosque said, right after 9/11, that the US is “an accomplice to 9/11” and that Bin Ladin was “made in the USA.” Embracing this imam as a “moderate” is a big mistake and sends the wrong message.

    Another thing is, what kind of bridge building are they doing by building a mosque right near Ground Zero and breaking ground on September 11?!?! I believe a genuine moderate would just not go there.

    • ck

      8/6/2010 at 5:01 am

      The Mosque was already there. They’re just adding on a community center. The Imam is entitled to hold whatever idiotic opinion he likes.

  33. Tori

    8/6/2010 at 2:27 pm

    And we are allowed to point out the Imam’s fake moderation.

  34. AlexK

    8/6/2010 at 2:35 pm

    “That Muslims can build a mosque at the WTC tells you everything about America. That they WILL build it, tells you everything about Islam.” – Dennis Miller.

    We have been thoroughly convinced that all of the members of Jewlicious.com are huge supporters of the First Amendment. Bravo. As everyone should be. But what I have yet to see, is that any of you can criticize this decision to continue, from an ethical, moral, sensitivity perspective. We know you believe they have the RIGHT, but do you support them actually going through with it. At least I’d like to believe your worldviews aren’t so idealistic and actually grounded in some logic.

  35. AlexK

    8/9/2010 at 10:55 am

    Now we have Muslims on record admitting that the building of this mosque is a deliberate provocation and question where the money is coming from:

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html

    Will it change some of your minds? I don’t think so, but it’s worth a try.

  36. AlexK

    8/10/2010 at 9:55 am

    More “unenlightened” bigots that oppose the mosque:

    http://www.therightscoop.com/muslim-raheel-raza-speaks-out-against-ground-zero-mosque-on-oreilly

    Again, I’ve never said they CAN’T build there. I said they SHOULDN’T build there. That’s a huge distinction which this blog post implies is the same.

  37. grandmuffti

    8/11/2010 at 10:38 am

    Same unenlightened bigot by the looks of it, AlexK. Why are you so impressed that you can find a muslim who will say it’s a provocation when it is a different muslim than the one(s) expanding an ALREADY THERE mosque.

    So far as Muffti can tell, this bullshit issue has popped up entirely to get anti-islamic bigots a forum in which they can display their bigotry and feel good about themselves parading under the banner of ‘sensitivity’. Just like the fake ‘let’s get rid of the 14th amendment’ issue some republicans are championing. It’s made up to get useful idiots enflamed around a totally fake, contrived issue. Way to heed the call!

  38. AlexK

    8/11/2010 at 12:02 pm

    Thanks. Well, according to the latest CNN poll, 68% of Americans, now otherwise known as “bigots”, oppose the building of this mosque/center. Wow, lefties have been throwing around terms like bigot and racist for anyone that doesn’t agree with them lately. Great to see it applied here. Must be nice to feel smug and self-righteous at the same time.

    Either way, if and when Islamic Fundamentalists see their dreams come to fruition, they’ll kill off the useful idiot Jews who paraded under the banner of sensitivity and political correctness, just as quickly as they will us bigots.

  39. grandmuffti

    8/11/2010 at 12:42 pm

    Well, we call ’em like we see ’em, AlexK. Muffti is disagreed with all the time. Go find the last time he called anyone a racist or a bigot. In any case, he didnt’ call YOU a bigot. He called you an (useful) idiot. Apparently one who isn’t a careful reader. But nice knee jerk reaction which Muffti is told is the weakness of the right. Must be nice to feel smug with a pretend mantle of victimization. And another fine trick culled from the stereotypes of the right: unabashed fear as though a routine building permit was step one to death from Islamic Fundamentalist.

    Muffti doesn’t think that opposing the mosque makes you a bigot – and this isn’t an issue of political correctness or sensitivity. It’s an issue of freedom of religion and a certain repulsion at people who are making issues out of nothing whatsoever, purely to exploit anti-islamic feelings for obvious political gain. You can tell by the complete distortion of facts in this case (buiding vs. expanding an already there mosque, for example). And while you’re citing statistics, chew on this one: 53% of people living in Manhattan support the construction. (source: here.)

    So, no, Muffti don’t think everyone who opposes the mosque is a bigot; many are simply swayed by the distortions of the case and are too lazy to look into more clearly. But the people who make this an issue (re: lunatic ridge of the republican party, now infecting the rest of the chickenshits in that party) are happy to use this issue are exploiting fear and hatred by evoking such sentimental phrases as ‘the shadow of ground zero’ etc.

  40. grandmuffti

    8/11/2010 at 11:36 pm

    Sorry, AlexK. That was rude. You are certainly not an idiot.

  41. AlexK

    8/12/2010 at 1:45 pm

    It’s all good Muffti. I don’t think you are a terrorism white-washing Islamist apologist Western Useful Idiot either. 🙂

  42. AlexK

    8/13/2010 at 10:07 am

    I rest my case with Charles Krauthammer’s word on the subject:

    “Sacrilege at Ground Zero”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/12/AR2010081204996.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

    And I won’t even begin to pretend any one of us is more intelligent or knowledgeable than this guy. So as far as I’m concerned: Case Closed.

  43. Grand Muffti

    8/13/2010 at 11:46 pm

  44. alexk

    8/14/2010 at 9:32 am

    Charles Johnson? Seriously? Come on.

  45. ugh

    8/20/2010 at 2:45 am

    Ck said: “The Mosque was already there. They’re just adding on a community center.”

    Incorrect. The closest place of Islamic worship was actually just a Muslim bookstore that got credentialed as a Mosque. Nobody in Tribeca seemed to know it was there until they started challenging nightlife, and bars on West Broadway in Tribeca.

    http://gothamist.com/2006/03/04/tribeca_loves_m.php

    Also lost in all this…

    The Burlington Coast Factory shut down BECA– USE of 9/11.It’s remained vacant since.

    There’s tented renovation going on across the street 10 years later, and at the corner is a hollow shell of a high rise that sits along the edge of the Ground Zero site.

    For any religious group to take advantage of the Real Estate market conditions that religious extremism created is in bad, bad taste. Just like Park51’s Twitter feed made comments in bad taste.

    • ck

      8/20/2010 at 5:18 am

      The Suffi mosque in Tribeca never challenged nightlife and bars on West Broadway. Please do better research before making inaccurate assertions:

      “In the meantime, officials at the mosque said they have no objection to the nearby bars and have never had problems with them. A spokesman named Ali said the mosque would remain neutral in the dispute… ‘We don’t dictate other people’s behavior,’ he said. ‘We believe in non-judging and tolerance.'”

      The Park51 building has been used as a makeshift Mosque since September 2009, serving up to 450 worshipers.

  46. ugh

    8/21/2010 at 1:57 am

    Utterly naive.

    Their public statements do not jive with their actions.

    Liquor licenses aren’t issued within 200 feet of a religious center. That is NY law, but the bookstore, a tiny storefront, then requested a retroactive revocation of liquor licenses for businesses 16 years after they opened. It was a power play when a new bar wanted to go in. Liquor licensing requires a process hearing, and the SLA found discrepancies based on a protest. Someone had to contest the liquor license and as for other licenses in the area to get reviewed. Their Mosque was at the center of 4 alcohol businesses closures, which they challenged and won at a considerable expense.

    Meanwhile, speaking of research… your statement that the Jewish exodus from “Arab lands” occurred in the abitrary year of 1956 is beyond ignorant.

  47. ugh

    8/21/2010 at 2:03 am

    *the establishments challenged, and one, of course.

  48. larry

    8/21/2010 at 8:50 am

    Has anyone been following the @Park51PR paraody twitter feed?

    They think they are funny, but they have lost sight of parady and become vile and disgusting. I pray to god that they arent a couple of Jewish guys into parody. Most likely they are honest when they say they are the former twitter guys that Park51 fired.

  49. AlexK

    8/21/2010 at 10:52 am

    I do. It was funny as hell but it has become slightly islamophobic. The problem here isn’t Islam, it’s these specific Islamists and they should stick to attacking just them. I still can’t believe you guys are acting like such dupes for carrying water for such anti-American, Anti-Israel losers especially with the mounting evidence of such activities and connections. When more evidence comes out next week about other anti-Semitic statements and activities will you still stick by them? I think this is a good time for you check yourselves before you feel like you made a grave mistake. Here is a Jewish blog fighting harder for the rights of Islamists than most moderate Muslims in America. I forgot what this affliction is called but there’s got to be a name for this. It’s worse than Stockholm Syndrome. This is like Michael Moore standing up for the Wikileaks guy who then the next day gets charged with rape and molestation. Haha. I really hope you guys watch and read about the people financing this thing and reevaluate your position. 🙂

    • ck

      8/21/2010 at 9:36 pm

      I’m not fighting for the rights of Islamists silly. My opinion in this matter is based on self interest. Building a Mosque 2 blocks away from ground zero is not against the law. There is no reason that corresponds to one’s constitutional rights that that community center should not be built. None. For me this is an issue of rights. Not just the rights of Muslims but everyone’s rights. I think if we allow constitutionally protected rights to be shunted aside beside some people’s feelings are hurt then you weaken those rights for everyone and that sets a terrible precedent that may very well come back to bite my American co-religionists in the butt. And my opinion won’t change if the people running this community center are rabid anti Semites either – having offensive opinions isn’t against the law either.

  50. AlexK

    8/21/2010 at 11:06 am

    Well, it looks like that wikileaks guy may not have raped and molested little boys after all. He just got Afghan and intelligence agents helping us kill Jihadees murdered. That’s all. He’s still a standup guy. So is Michael Moore… With the help of a forklift.

    Look at it this way. If the people behind GZM were nice people, I’d support them. But then again, if they were nice people they probably wouldn’t think it’s a. Good idea to build there and break ground on 9/11.

  51. grandmuffti

    8/22/2010 at 10:27 am

    This story opened Muffti’s eyes a bit vis a vis the funding issue:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41238.html

    the builders have raised a niggling 18k at this point by the looks of it. If that’s the best the mysterious agents that are worrying you, AlexK etc., can do, perhaps only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

    The guy running this community centre, btw, worked for the Bush administration:

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/ground_zero_mosque_imam_bush_partner_for_peace.php

    Why is Muffti getting the feeling that something is wrong with the right wing in America when Reagan and Bush would not be quite right wing enough to lead it?

  52. ugh

    8/22/2010 at 11:07 pm

    I don’t think anyone challenges their right to do it, but acknowledging the legality of it, and supporting it, or protecting it as a proper thing to do are two entirely different things. Your argument is trivial as long as they operate through the law….and likewise, the rest of us are also able to express our displeasure.

    Meanwhile, you should still look into your understanding of the Jewish refugees from so called Arabic lands and stop spreading disinformation.

  53. ugh

    8/22/2010 at 11:13 pm

    Clearly the US Government, has employed a number of anti-establishment Muslims via the State Department and the Military. Taking a public service paycheck during a Republican presidency does not prove ones politics are moderate.

    Nobody urging us to understand the mindset of terrorists and rationalizing their crimes as a natural response (rather than condemning them and standing besides us) should be equated to moderate Muslims, nor held up as a model of the Bush/Reagan stance on terror.

  54. Lori

    8/24/2010 at 10:26 am

    Muffti,

    I’m not taking sides on this very divisive issue. However, I’d like to make a correction based on my own independent reporting, and the NY Post’s:.

    It isn’t that they’ve only raised 18k for the project — it’s that they only disclosed 18K in their 2008 990 tax form — a year in which they had at least 10 full time staff members.

  55. Lori

    8/24/2010 at 10:28 am

    To clarify, Cordoba Initiative claimed 18K in total assets in their 2008 990 tax form. They haven’t filed any more recent than that.

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