Jewlicious?Uhm, I don’t know what to make of this so , well… let’s just run with it ok? St. John’s Telegram reports the following story today that claims that many people of Acadian or French Canadian heritage may actually be Jews! Common surnames include LeBlanc, Bourgeois, Landry, Mallet, Doucet, Vienneau and many more. Bernard Landry, pictured here, is the head of the Nationalist Parti Québécois – the official opposition. The advent to power of the PQ in 1976 is often cited as a reason for a subsequent major anglo and Jewish exodus from Quebec. Here’s the story:

Cajun or Jewish?
Sandra DeVlin
July 29, 2004 Thursday Final Edition

Jackie Bourque is in the eye of a whirlwind of mixed emotions since discovering she and thousands of others in Atlantic Canada may have been misled over many centuries about their Acadian heritage.

“I had been led to believe I was a Cajun girl and that we had to maintain our French … and not mix with the English,” says the Bathurst, N.B. native who is currently living in Quebec.

“It took me several weeks to actually accept that I am Jewish more than I am Acadian,” says Jackie, who believes she has stumbled upon a little-known or little-discussed fact: that many of the familiar Acadian surnames are more likely of Jewish origin than of French.

“People will not generally accept this,” she says, “because they have been brainwashed.”

EVIDENCE CLINCHED IT

Jackie was finally convinced by the evidence of “a Semitic stain,” a birthmark common among Acadians and which proponents claim identifies them with their Sephardic Crypto-Jewish ancestors who fled to southern France from Spain during the Inquisition (1478-808).

The deal for the Jews fleeing to France was “change your name and convert” to the Roman Catholic faith, says Jackie.

Our so-called French ancestors who immigrated here during the 17th and 18th centuries have surnames found among census of Jews who were condemned and sought by the Inquisition, she claims.

NOTABLE NAMES

Bourque is one, as is LeBlanc, Bourgeois, Landry, Mallet, Doucet, Vienneau, Lamarche and many more.

“When the person has the name and the ‘stain’ to boot, then how can they deny their identity?” says Jackie, who has the birthmark.

“I’ve been doing my own personal research with all these names, just among the people I meet, or neighbours and, definitely, they all have either the pinkish dots in the neck at the hairline, or some browning/blackish splat on their back.

“Others have it at the waistline. I have also found some have it on their arm at the shoulder level.

“To prove my point, when I find out their names, I immediately tell them about the Semitic stain, otherwise, they could say, ‘Ah, you’re just making this up.’ ”

Jackie refers us to French Sephard-im, one online source that backs this theory, located at www.geocities.com/sephardim2003/

For more information contact: Jackie Bourque, 110-110 de Navarre, St. Lambert, QC J4S 1R6; telephone: (450) 923-3579; e-mail: jackie.bourque @sympatico.ca.

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About the author

ck

Founder and Publisher of Jewlicious, David Abitbol lives in Jerusalem with his wife, newborn daughter and toddler son. Blogging as "ck" he's been blocked on twitter by the right and the left, so he's doing something right.

168 Comments

  • Can you say KOSHER POUTINE STANDS all over Jerusalem? Kosher tourtiere? A large influx of formerly Catholic French Canadians to Israel would bring new, bitterly ironic meaning to the phrase “cauliss tabarnac!”

    • As the Webmaster of this column, I am appaled at how you’ve mocked and ridiculed me for many years.

      Yom Kippur is coming up….Get rid of that ugly spiirt PLEEEZE.

      • Jackie, that comment was written 8 years ago! And I don’t think I was being mean or mocking you. At the time you hadn’t even shown up yet! That having been said, there is now a place in Jerusalem that sells poutine. No tourtiere yet but I’m pretty sure it would sell here like hot cakes. Israelis like meat. Me? I’m a vegetarian so it doesn’t help me much. I’m fascinated by how this post has taken on a life of it’s own and you are a valued member of our Jewlicious community.
        🙂

        • Well, like my good Rabbi says: “Jackie, you’re more Jewish than a Rabbi”… I’ve returned to my roots and I am quite satisfied with my “return” to the Faith of my fathers.

          I continuously have a flow of letters coming in especially from the US and some in Europe who are finding their J2 Haplo; they are just as shocked as I was. I’m sorry for the Acadian geneologists who fight this tooth and nail. However there is an Italian living in France who wrote and confirms that we, the Acadians are Jews from Spain. He and his father are writing a book on their findings.

          My question is: Why is Israel not looking for the Jews who fled into France/Portugal and other European countries during the Inquisition? We are the chopped liver of the Jewish Community, but the fact remains, we are still Levites and GOD knows it.

          Since this article first appeared, I spent time as a volunteer with the IDF and will return when the next war begins. I did this in the name of all lost Jews of Acadia who were persecuted just because of being Jewish.

          I love being Jewish, I love observing the Law and all that surrounds the Shabbats and Holy Festivals.

          I left tons of prayers at the KOTEL for my people to be awakened to this wonderful truth.
          Am Israel Chai.

          • I’ve been studying the wanderings of the lost tribes of Israel since I was a teenager back in the ’70’s. The subject is fascinating and I am truly glad to have found this website!

          • Hi Jackie,

            If you’re still out there, I’m 100% a believer in this. I ended up with unexpected (and high!) amounts of “jewish” DNA (retested multiple times and it doesn’t change). I though it was in error until a year later when I traced many of my french ancestors back to Acadia and found some even older records citing them as “conversos”.

            Would love to chat if you have the time!

          • I would not necessarily agree French Canadians are the chopped liver of the Jewish Community. We don’t know we’re Jewish…yet. After speaking with a Sephardic Rabbi in the U.S. (about 16 years ago) when I first realized there is something of a Jewish naming pattern in my tree with names and many of the surnames being Sephardic in origin. This rabbi said with French Canadians, if this is can be proven this would mean we were among the very 1st Jewish settlers to the Americas. French Canadian Jews are not secretive like the Secret Jews of the American Southwest (who conducted Jewish worship in private) With our history it’s been buried so deep, for us not to find. Our Ancestors after all, were always running scared. We’re not secretive, because we have no clue we’re Jewish to begin with. We as a people have not held onto Jewish customs and traditions like the American Southwest hidden Jews have.

            I would say that the whole Crypto-Judaism conversation has continued to grow and evolve. It started in the American Southwest and the conversation has continued to grow because of the breast cancer rates and DNA testing, etc.

            Are Sephardi considered to be 2nd class Jews? Some have said even in Israel there is a distinction between the groups of Jews, almost like social classes. Even with Sephardi being “Biblical Jews”

            Technically Crypto-Jews are called ‘people of the double blessing’ The is the bigger question is how to change the French Canadian culture to even have some sense of understanding of this possible inclusion of Jewish lineage in our trees? When I have mentioned it to my own family it was not met with any type of interest, just straight denial. It was shutdown immediately, which is sad. The truth is the truth.

            The only time we can even see this with some understanding is through studying at length our tree. Then they light goes off. Even our naming traditions for our children comes from Judaism.

            How Jewish did your parents raise you? Some of the things we did as a family after speaking with a Jewish friend I learned are Jewish customs and ways of living.

            1) Not eating the veins in meat
            2) Placing a silver coin in a baby’s 1st bath
            3) Combing your hair immediately after a bath
            4) Taking out the blood spots in eggs
            5) A deep respect for property lines
            6) Naming your children after family members

            The list goes on……

            A list of Sephardic Surnames. https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=175&p=topics.religious.jewish.sephardic

          • Do you have any info on the Guidry name? We all have the little red speckled birth marks on the back of our necks at the hair line.

      • Jackie Bourque,

        If you are still out there. Please point me in the way of more research.

        Thanks.

          • I was reading the jewlicious sight about all the physical traits of the Cajuns that might have a Jewish ancestors. My dad, his father, me and my siblings and our kids all have the reddish spots at the hairline. My daughter also has the “stain” on her shoulder and a brown birth mark on her back. My maiden name is Guidry. I didn’t see it listed in the above column and didn’t know if this information applied to our family.

        • Hi Michelle,

          Have you found out anything more about your Vezina ancestry? My grandmother’s maiden name was Vezina. If you’d like to exchange information please let me know.

          Hope to hear from you!

          Fern

        • Me too. My Mother was a Gelinas and we have Mallet, Robert and other ify names like Charland. I would love to know more especially where in Spain Elie le Juif and Huggette Robert’s families came from.

          • Jean Gallagher
            Gelinas is definintely a Jewish surname…
            So is Mallet (Melech in Hebrew, meaning King)
            Charland,etc
            Yes, we are Jews from Spain.
            You can find me on FB: Jackie Bourg, Montreal

    • Even if we are genetically Jewish, we already have our own culture, religion and land. The last I want to do is start fighting with those homicidal maniacs over in the Levant.

    • Not happening we have our own Jerusalem in Quebec City and our own Tel Aviv in Montreal. Yes we used to head to Florida like New York Jews but now we go to Dominican Republic.

  • To add more fuel to my fire (Acadians are really Jewish), here is an excerpt taken from http://www.thegeneticscenter.com

    What “Jewish” diseases are we talking about?
    Tay-Sachs disease, Canavan disease, familial dysautonomia, Niemann-Pick (type A) disease, Fanconi anemia (group C), Bloom syndrome, Gaucher disease (the non-neuronopathic type), mucolipidosis type IV, and glycogen storage disease type 1. These are all uncommon conditions that are predominantly found in persons of Ashkenazi ancestry. [Tay-Sachs disease is also found in persons of French-Canadian (Acadian) ancestry and, rarely, in mixed Jewish/non Jewish couples.] Although not strictly a disorder of European Jews, cystic fibrosis is often included in an Ashkenazi heritage screening panel, since it occurs with the same frequency in European Jews as in members of the non-Jewish Caucasian population (approximately 1/3,000

    • From: Larry Vizenor (Vezina)

      Recently ordered the Family Finder genealogical test from Family Tree DNA.

      Family Finder test examines all of one’s chromosomes in terms of their ethnic origins.

      A few interesting and unexpected results: (1) Legally I am 5/32 (16%) Native American. However, since I actually only possess 6.52% Native American chromosomes, it seems my father’s Native American chromosomes, due to recombination in gametogenesis, were largely excluded from the sperm cell from which i originated. Hopefully the tribe will not revoke my membership card. Ha! Ha! (2) Now I know that many French Canadian families were descended of Sephardic Jews and it appears I got my fair share of Hebrew chromosomes. (3) Of course, the 71.83 % Finnish – Russian conection derives from my Scandinavian mother since Scandinavians are in large part descended of earlier Russian and Finnish ancestors. Afterall, only the Russians have more blondes than the Swedes.

      Find attached charts from Family Tree.

      The Population Finder program determines your biogeographical ancestry — the story of your personal genetic history — by comparing your autosomal DNA to that of our world DNA population database.

      Your Population Finder results consist of up to four out of seven continental groups.* For each, the percentage of your genome that matches is shown. You may view your results as either a stacked bar or pie chart.

      Where possible, we list specific subgroups such as Basque and Bedouin or subregions such as Western Europe. More Info.

      * The seven continental groups are based on genetic similarity and do not precisely match geographical continents.

      Europe

      Finnish, Russian

      71.83%

      ±6.48%

      Native American

      Surui, Columbian, Maya

      6.52%

      ±0.75%

      Middle East (Jewish)

      Jewish

      21.65%

      ±5.96%

      • Wow! Thank you immensely Larry for publishing the results of your genetics test here for all of us to see. You have certainly gotten me curious about taking the same test myself.

        Does the result mean that you are 21.65% Jewish and Middle Eastern?

        • To: Dennis Tate
          My understanding of the Family Finder DNA test is that 21.65% of my autosomal (non-sex) chromosomes match those of the Israeli reference population.
          I think it interesting that my father was near total French Canadian ancestry and it follows that he would likely have had about twice the percentage of matches with the Israeli reference population. If he is a typical French Canadian, then it would seem to be the case that the typical French Canadian is approximately of 40% Jewish ancestry. Hopefully my thoughts on this subject are not too far from the truth.

    • Yes, Jackie. This ‘delta mutation’ that you’re talking about, is indeed common among the non-Jewish Caucasian population, and becomes magnified in a founder population, because there’s so little genetic drift. All this about the ‘stain’ is not just silly (so much can cause birthmarks) but also stigmatizing, to refer to this as a ‘stain’, ergo ‘Jewish’. I personally find that distressing.

      From GENEALOGY, that is, proven traceable RECORDS of ancestors, how is there proof of Ashkenazi roots among the Acadians? What names specifically have been associated with Jewish ancestry in French Canada, when? And specifically among the Quebecois? And during what time period did the most of them come? I’d be much more interested in that, than all of this nonsense about stains and COMMON genes.

      • Hi Ari,

        I’m not sure why you’re fighting this in such an aggressive way. I found this story interesting. But the reality behind it is a lost piece of Canadian history and many elements of it are in line with what I’ve found in my genealogical adventures which have included extensive research. I’ve taken the last four years to map out my ancestry. While it seemed far fetched at first, I have done DNA testing (multiple) and have also mapped many of my Acadian and Quebecois ancestors back to villages in France which were historically formed and inhabited by Jews fleeing the inquisition (and even 4 back to Jewish settlements in Portugal). There is no doubt in my mind that at least half of my french canadian and acadian ancestors were in fact descended from jews fleeing both the Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions. I even have records which refer to several of my ancestors directly as “conversos” and “murranos”. While I don’t personally consider myself jewish as a result, I do value the struggle of my ancestors these hundreds of years ago and consider that there is a historically jewish piece to my puzzle as a human being. Not sure why this would enrage you. Happy to chat.

        • Hi Kate
          Guys like Ari are a dime a dozen.
          As the Scripture saith: The Prodigal Son came Home to the Father and the “other guy”, like Ari, was JEALOUS. My first ancestor who came to CANADA in 1610 was called BOURG… 2 Centuries later, the Roman Church changed the G for a “Q”… I found that ANTOINE BOURG was named ABRAHAM BOURG but his name was changed to ANTOINE at baptism. This confirms that there was a conversion… and his Jewish name was changed!

          All our French surnames are interchangeable to Hebrew surnames. Ex: My mom is a DOUCET… this means Sugar or Sweet. In Spain, it would have been ZUCKER.
          Should you have other questions, you can reach me on FB under the name of JACKIE BOURG, Montreal

    • knew a catholic french canadian family the marquerites’ of rochester ny;all of their children had cystic fibrosis.

      my last name is La Crosse- from De La Croix-fro Tres Rivere Quebec and St. Marks, Quebec….interesting- I have brown freckles on my back too.

  • Wow Jackie. Thanks for keeping us updated on this really remarkable story. So now how about a good recipe for kosher tourtiere? A friend of my family, a French-Canadian woman who converted to Judaism, made us a kosher tourtiere once and it was delicious! Can you help? Tourtiere is this yummy meat pie for those of you who don’t know.

    Oh wait a minute. I haven’t eaten meat in months. Dang.

  • Re: LaVigne’s

    You’re absolutely right! Adar Lavigne is a Levite! Ah! or Ha!

    “Oh When The Saints – Come Marching In”…
    Move out schmatta heads. Here comes the Maritime Templemount Levites.

  • Acadians aren’t “poutine” eaters…
    but we eat all the food we “sea”…
    and by golly, even keep dairy Law on this one…
    No milk or milk products with seafood….
    Why we asked? Because you will surely die.
    So at a low point in my life (few years ago),
    I thought I’d give it a shot. Ate the kosher lobster
    (well, I prayed over it!) and then drank a glass of
    milk.

    Lies my mother told me!

    JB

    ps: We do not make tourtieres either. When I first
    saw one, it made news in N.B.: “Ma! These Quebecers
    eat hamburg pies!” Nobody could believe this! Ha!
    Vive le Quebec.

  • To my Acadian/Cajun brothers:

    Thank you for your feedback; I am encouraged that you are seeking your Jewishness! I would also like to add that we now have a group of French people whom have had their DNA test completed and have been legally declared 100% Jewish. Just click above at http://www.geocities.com/sephardim2003/ to contact the Webmaster for instructions.

    This is fulfillment of prophecy according to Ezekiel 37:16 & 17: “The Word of Adonai came again unto me saying: …”Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, for JUDAH, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take ANOTHER stick, and write upon it, for Joseph, the stick of E’phraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And JOIN them one to another into ONE stick: and they shall become ONE in thine hand”…

    This great event is not a man thing, but destiny with our G-d for such a time as this; Daniel the Prophet said: “Knowledge shall be increased in the end times”. Surely, this is a phenomena of all times!

    I invite you to write for more information; a book is in the making!

  • My Family name is Vadeboncoeur this is a nom du guerre, the originally is Sulte and my other ancestor is Cournoyer am I of Askenazi or Sephardic Jewish descent? The reason I ask is because I have those spots that were mentioned and I can tell you that I look like Corey Haim’s twin! Please tell me if I am a Jew or not.

    • Mr.Vadeboncoeur aka Guerrera… The best way I can answer this is for you to ask for your DNA at http://www.FamilyTree.com/dna and request the package for the J2 Haplo.

      FYI: Guerre in Spanish is Guerrera, a name found in most of the Americas and Mexico, of which we, the French people of Canada ARE related by DNA.

      Please give us follow up. Do not be moved by either Jew haters here, OR Jews who don’t want us to be counted in as part of the Household of David, the House of Israel.

      Be well and Shalom to you …

      Jackie

  • Being one of the many descendants of the Vezina family of North America I have developed a bit of interest in this subject of Sephardic ancestry of French Canadians. For a time I too was intrigued by the possibility of Tay Sachs and OPMD serving as indicators of Jewish ancestry. However, following a fair amount of internet research on the subject I have come to learn that the mutations for these diseases are different for Jews and French Canadians and will not serve as ancestral indicators.

  • To: Larry Vizenor

    You see my e-mail address on the article above.
    Should you want more information, do not hesitate writing me.

    Shalom!

    Jackie

  • To: TheMiddle

    Your comments are the wisest since Solomon.
    Ever notice a baby’s expression when introduced to new food? Weird!

  • Great site, much interest in French/Jewish ancestory of wife, who can prove one line from family, Gelinas, and is also connected to most families from Acadia. We live in Ct.

  • I really thought this was another wannabe jew story. i am part french canadian and here are the cohen modal haplotypes and my dna results. i match 5 out of 6 of the most common cohen alleles. can anyone make anything out of this i really dont think it is correct. there must be more to this that i am mising. our ancestor came from the french spanish border area to new france in the 1650s. If anyone can email me or respond to this post i would greatly appreciate it.

    my dna: 393 12
    > > > 390 23
    > > > 19 14
    > > > 391 10
    > > > 385a 13
    > > > 385b 17
    > > > 426 11
    > > > 388 15
    > > > 439 13
    > > > 389-1 13
    > > > 392 11
    > > > 389-2 29

    cohen dna: From: Charles
    Subject: Re: [DNA] Cohanim Modal Haplotype (CMH)
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:12:32 -0500
    References:
    In-Reply-To:
    All:
    Cohanim /co●ha●nim/ – A descendant of the ancient all male Jewish
    priestly sect. Plural of Cohen.
    Cohanim Modal Haplotype – /co●ha●nim mod●al hap●lo●type/ – A descriptive
    term used to characterize the most common haplotype allele values for
    males who are Cohanim. The DYS markers and modal STR allele repeat
    values for the CMH are: DYS388=16, DYS390=23, DYS391=10, DYS392=11,
    DYS393=12, and DYS394 (aka DYS19)=14. Compare Atlantic Modal Haplotype.
    Cohen – /Co●hen/ – A descendant of the ancient all male Jewish priestly
    sect. Singular of Cohanim. See Cohanim and Cohanim Modal Haplotype.
    Charles Kerchner

    • Brandon
      I hope you will get this little letter. I have not come on this forum in many years for many reasons, however, you can still contact me directly at the above email addresses.

      French Canadians (Quebeccers) and Acadians/Cajuns are indeed from the priesthood of the Temple in Jerusalem. That is why we are basically all creative (singers, musicians, sculptors, designers, etc).
      Write me! Shalom alechem.

      Jackie

      • I sing and dance but my grandad was an Irish tenor from west ireland and catholic and a scotsman too of celtic hereitage mixed with my french and german..think we are all mixed … so god bless the creative …..a La Crosse descendant from St. Lawrence area/St Mark’s
        and Quebec City , Quebec..family immigrated to Carthage NY

      • Hmm, the LeBlancs of my father and grandfather’s generation are all engineers, architects, civil engineers…they do design and create, but within the less right-brained forms of painting or sculpture. Less canvas and more graph paper.

        I’m here from a series of links, some of which are quite old, commenting on this ancient thread. But it seems to mean something.

        My father has eschewed getting his DNA tested because he says it is unnecessary. He’s the LeBlanc, on his patrilineal side (his grandmother was from Spain). My mother is of Ashkenazi descent. I grew up hearing descriptions as French and Italian. Then later, it was Acadian, and Italian-Russian. I think I only learned about the Spanish grandmother in the last ten years. My mom did her DNA about 3 years ago. Now if all those known details spent 20-30 years described only as “French” and “Italian,” what more is missing as it was passed down through generations? How can he be so sure that a dusty book published in the middle of the last century has the correct information? Trying to get him on board with this project. He’s always been very into family history and ancestry; I just can’t get him into taking the DNA step. Anyway, I’m having a great time following these links.

  • Has been awhile, but if memory serves me then it has been my understanding that the Cohanim is determined by a distinctive alu-insertion (non genetic material imbedded in Y chromosome) and predates the Jews and can be found today amoungst a variety of different peoples such as Armenians, Arabs, Jews, Turks, Italians, etc. I believe that Family Tree DNA automatically tests for this Cohanim genetic trait and automatically advises test participants if they possess this genetic trait. As I recall the Cohanim genetic trait is limited to those individuals with Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup J. In sum, although a possible association with a Jewish ancestry it is not a definitive Jewish trait.

  • This really freaked me out. Thanks for the info Jackie. When my son was born, an Israeli said to me “Is that baby crying in Hebrew?” I laughed, but the uncanny thing is that it may be true! Later when my son turned 4 he declared to me that he no longer wanted to be called by his given name, he wanted to be called “Judah”. I asked him where he had ever heard that name before and he didn’t know. Then my father, who was Cajun passed away. He knew that his grandmother was a German Jew. Recently I felt it important to find out more about my heritage. I have been floored by all of the information that seems to point to the Jewishness of my father and also my mother. But even more incredible is that now we are finding that my husband may also be. My son has the semitic stain you described in his hairline and lower spine. Something we are curious about is that all of my siblings and our children inherited this sort of skin rash from my Dad. It doesn’t itch or hurt at all, it just looks like rash on arms and sometimes the back. When I went to one of the sites Jackie mentioned, I found genetic information regarding diseases that affect my family, including the fact that my Dad died of colon cancer. I totally am in agreement that this must be a fulfillment of prophecy in process, because I have always felt “kin” to the Jewish people and in the years since my son was born have been trying to learn more about the traditions. We are participating in the DNA testing which at this point involves 4 different family lines. Wow! Susan

  • This is all so very, very fascinating. I honestly have no idea what to make of it. Thanks for sharing with us Susan. Keep us updated!

  • Hi,

    i have never read so much jokes in a day !
    there is a little difference between someone WHO WANT TO BE JEWISH and a jew !
    sorry but the facts are there !: the French Canadians are not of jewish descent this is a fact that can be easily verify and clearly proved.
    There is a certain propaganda trying to denaturalize the catholic French Canadian identity (we all heards of the supposed (yes… supposed) Indian origin of the French Canadians wich many historians have proved to be a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y wrong !!
    now you have pointed out that lots of French Canadians suffer from genetics diseases exactly like the jewish communities, the meaning of that point is that most of these diseases are CONGENITAL DISEASES, due to the fact that french canadian were living with 1- Indians 2-Anglo-saxon protestants (exaclty like jews had to suffer from the so horrible torture of living in stupid goyim’s country), they had to get married with catholics…..and only the little french canadians bastions were catholic in north america, that is the reason why cystic fibrosis is ( wich is nearly almost, but not only, a disease of the caucasian (white) race)frequent in French Canadians genes.
    somes have pointed out that lots of french Canadians family names were from jewish origin,
    let me remind you that: it is not french canadian names who descent from jewish origin but somes of the jewish names comes from french names exactly like the ashkenazi’s names came from the yiddish dialect wich is a kind of bastardized language derived from german language.

    now i am not saying that no french canadian have jewish descent !!!! it is possible !
    but making out of the french canadian community the 13th lost tribe is a kind of aberration !

    but speaking of the “jewishness“ of the french canadians…..can we speak now , of the jewishness of the jews themselves…oh oh !!!
    several JEWISH historians (like Arthur Koestler, Benjamin Freedman and many more…their studies have never been refuted, by the way)have pointed out that ashkenazims were not jewish but not even semite ! in fact it is fairly said that 90% of the world jewish community are not even semite, but originated from a turk-mongol descent from the old kingdom of Khazaria at the south of Russia,
    and recent genealogycal studies have ended up to the conclusion that a large percentage of sephardic are no way jewish !( the famous americain history magazine, the Barnes Review, have pointed that one out, several times)
    so that would mean that the zionist racket “the land of Israel belong to the(non)Jews“ is a total aberration to the truth, history and intelligence !!

    bye bye

    • You’re just one of those Kazaars who still want to get rid of Sephardic Jews. Get a life and get a brain.
      Do you suppose that Hashem only has 15 million grains on sand laid upon all the oceans (and beaches) of this Planet? And how about the stars that He promised Aveinu Avraham.

      Get educated and read sir.

  • Sorry F.hamelin but I haven’t gone out looking to be a Jew. I’m proud of my Cajun heritage, and irregardless of the outcome of this present situation, that is my heritage. What difference would it make for you or anyone else if my ancestors turned out to be Jewish? Does someone have the ultimate say over a bloodline for crying out loud? I have just as much right to know about my ancestors as you or anyone else has to know about theirs. By the way isn’t there a Jewish saying that a child born to a Jewish mother is Jewish? Well then my Grandfather was Jewish because his mother was Jewish. So if I want to jump on the “I’m a Jew” bandwagon there’s my chance. If I wanted to “convert” I could do that too, without bloodlines. The land of Israel is the Jews’ (children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) by decree of G-D irregardless of what people say. But from what you’ve written it would appear that you think there is no such thing as a JEW on this planet. So to clarify it, its possible that some people in this world may have descended from a group of non-existant people. Or from a fairy tale about some lost tribes which just burned themselves out.

    • Hope you’re still reading the threads Susan.
      You can contact me any time by the address given.
      I would be delighted sharing with you via SKYPE.

      PS: An Italian author contacted me last year, saying that he lives in France
      and had discovered he was a Levite…and his surname was BOURG.
      Bourg is also found on http://www.yadvashem.org
      This is Israel’s Holocaust Center. Luckily, my name is there, but for
      most people, you have to translate your surnames, e.g. LeBlanc= WEISS
      LeSage = WISE/WISEMAN
      Doucet/Ladouceur/Ledoux = Zucker/Zuckerman
      Petit = KLEIN….Etc Etc Etc

      Also, you can check out: http://www.sephrdim.com and translate your surnames into Spanish ones. It is a work of passion which has not yet been given much thought.

  • Hi Susan,

    here is some good links, there you will find out how “jews“, as you say it, are absolutely not “Yehuda“.
    You are of Turk-Mongols descents not of Abraham’s descent, in these books, if you are honest and if you want to know the truth, you will find that Ashkenazim “jews“ are just “goyim“ as Inuits !

    Because what’s in our heads and the facts…..are two extreme differences !

    If you think that you can brake a tree with your head…. try it ! but, it is possible that the truth will be a “HARD“ truth ! (i am very sorry Susan)

    http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/

    http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/factsR1.html

  • Jews are not Yehuda, I’m a Turk-Mongol not of Abraham, Ashkenazims are goyim as Inuits, and I can’t brake a tree with my head. Wow thanks for all this really useful information!

    • Mr. Hamelin

      Find me a geneologist who can supply us with information about our heritage in France beyond Year 1500…?
      You have to use your head here…and link the dots…crossing over to Spain, over the Pyrenees.

      I spent 2 months in Spain last year researching our surnames.
      Results were positively excellent.

      Go sell your story book to the hard cooked heathen religion.
      You sound like a Jesuit in disguise while promoting your Constantinian story, the Crusades, Inquisition, Pogroms, Holocaust and continuous hate of Jews fueled by your contaminated evil Popes.

  • Susan:

    I would hardly take Arthur Koestler as an expert in these things.

    Anyway, the real problem is that people think in the wrong categories about what it means to be Jewish. The primary thing to remember is that being Jewish is primarily a spiritual condition. True Jewishness exists in the spiritual realm (ruchnius) and only incidentally in the physical realm (gashmius).

    Gentiles think primarily in physical terms. So to them a Jew is somebody with “Jewish DNA” or “Jewish blood”. There is this physical aspect, yes, but Avraham became the father of the Jewish nation not because of his physical DNA but because he established a relationship with G-d, which changed his spiritual DNA, if you will. Avram became Avraham. He was a compleyel new and different person. This spiritual essence then became embodied in a physical nation, the Jewish nation.

    The seed of Avraham is reckoned through Isaac, who could not have been born without G-d’s direct intervention. So Isaac, and through him the jewish people, exist on this spiritual plane. Ishmael, Avraham’s son through Haga the Egyptian was born in the normal way. he is Avraham’s physical descendent but not his spiritual descendent.

    Since this heritage is primarily a spiritual one, this makes it possible for anyone to be a Jew if that person wants to have a Jewish relationship with G-d.

    So even if the majority of Ashkenazim are descended from the Turkish-Mongol Khazars ( a dubious idea at best) it absoutely does not matter in the least. Yes, the Khazars did convert. But by doing so they became just as Jewish as anyone. Their “race” no longer mattered. This way is open to anyone.

    It is this vital point that gentiles do not understand. They only think in physical terms. This is why they never can understand what being a Jew really means. Do not bother to listen to them.

    Good luck on your quest.

  • Hi,
    oh sorry i don’t want to offend anybody here !
    i am a little bit nervous and i am just asking some questions here !
    sorry for that again !

    After all these years….i always think that a jews was by race only…(how stupid i am)… thank you so much for letting me know that a jew is by faith only !

    can you just answer some question that a few gentiles (ashkenazim) have pointed out ?
    (this is only for my well being)

    1- what is the difference between B’nai B’rith and B’nai Noah ?
    2-why a member of B’nai Noah cannot be a member of B’nai B’rith ?
    3-you say that you would hardly take Koestler for a expert……excellent….so you will easily refute his work right now on this forum….since he is not a expert and he is wrong !
    4-please refute Freedman on-line and right now too because he did the same studies.
    5- why is there so much atheists“jews“ in Israel who claim that palestine is their land…since Israel belong to jews (by faith only)
    6- so that would mean that if my mother was jewish by race only (but not by faith)then i am not a jew (so Susan…is the mother of your grand father was jewish by faith….because if she wasn’t…your grand father wasn’t too)
    7-why “jewish“ authorities DO NOT encourage conversions ?
    8-so the king of Israel may be a “jew by faith only“?
    9-what does “anti-semite“ mean ?

    thank you and remember this is only for my well being !

  • Of course you meant to offend everyone here. Stop being so cute.

    My point is that it doesn’t matter if Koestler is right or wrong. Refuting him is meaningles because his argument and the categories he uses are, from a Jewish perspective, completely meaningless. The race/ethnicity/DNA/physical appearance of the Khazars is entirely irrelevant. Once they converted they became Jews. What they once may have been simply doesn’t matter.

    A Jew who is born a Jew remains a Jew. There is no such thing as a Jew “by faith only” or “by race only”. These are gentile categories. If your mother is a Jew, you are a Jew. A Jew might apostasize and join another religion, which would make it impossible for him to participate in Jewish communal life, but he cannot erase what he is. If and when he repents, he can be welcomed back into the community.

    However, since you are a gentile and think in gentile terms, I don’t expect you to understand this, of course. You simply must face the fact that there is at once a spiritual as well as a physical aspect of being Jewish. You must understand that we do not care what you think we are or should be, and the categories you use to try to define us don’t mean anything to us. We get to decide who and what we are and no one else. You’ll just have to live with it.

    Personally, I think it is a shame that so many Jews, some Israelis included, are atheists who ignore the commandments. But the fact that they are this way does not invalidate their status as Jews. But, like I said, since you think in gentile categories, I do not expect you to understand that. G-d will decide if the faith of the Jewish people as a whole entitles them to continue to exercise their right to live in Israel. It may be, G-d forbid, that we may be found wanting in this category as we were before. But the covenant can never be annulled and even if there were not a single Jew living in israel it would still belong to the Jewish people.

    B’nei Noach refers to non-Jews who keep the seven commandments of Noach. B’nei Brith is a Jewish political/cultural organization, but I suppose you are using it to refer to the Jewish people.

    A B’nei Noach may become a Jew if he/she wants to. But Jews are required to obey many more sommandments than gentiles are. So, if a gentile eats pork or does not observe the Sabbath, it is not a sin for him. If a Jew does these things, however, it is a sin. So since gentiles are not required to observe the commandments that Jews are required to observe, they are perfectly fine as they are and they do not need to convert. Since converting a gentile carries a risk that the convert may not observe all of the commandments properly, rabbis discourage conversion, since it is simply not necessary. However, if a gentile truly wants to convert and undertakes to obey the commandments and the rabbis are convinced of his sincerity, he can become a Jew. The fact that there are Jews who do not observe the commandments properly has nothing to do with this.

    An anti-Semite is somone who hates Jews. You know, somebody like you.

  • Thanks Ephraim for your kind response. Your words are full of wisdom and greatly appreciated. Throughout history whether a “Jew” was defined by blood or by faith there has always been this desire to get rid of them… maybe now explaining them away is the new form of genocide? If you can’t eradicate them, just say they never existed? Ephraim you made more sense in a sentence than anything else I’ve read on the subject. Thanks and Shalom!

    • Shalom Susan….
      I read “Ephraim’s” letter to Hamelin, the Catholic guy who keeps promoting his cult and denying our heritage.

      Indeed, Ephraim is full of wisdom and knowledge.
      It’s a Jewish trait! :))

      Please write me at my email when you get a chance.

      Be well and be blessed.

      Jackie… who came back to her ancestral Faith!

  • Hi there,

    you are not answering one of the questions….
    this is a pure joke!

    again !

    YOU SAY KOESTLER IS NOT A EXPERT !

    1-IS HE RIGHT OR WRONG ?(because if he is right….you are in big troubles !!!)
    2-why is there laws who apply to jews and non-jews…..?
    3-why non-jews have to obey to the 7 commandments of Noah ?
    4-why cardinal August Bea was member of the B’nai B’rith and “catholic“ ?
    5-no the word anti-semite doesn’t apply to someone who think that you are a clown….since you are not even a semite, but a khazar.
    6-Semite is a word who describe peoples who descents from Sem by blood !(uuuuhhh…..physical….no…. stupid gentile i am) well you are thinking just like a goy right now because you refer to physical terms…
    7- so you admit that ashkenazim are from Khazaria ?
    8-do palestinians (the true ones) are semites ?
    9-maybe you can be a semite by faith too ?
    10-genocide ? what do you mean….(ohhh yes….the genocide).
    Mr. Arthur Rupin who is jewish (by blood and by faith) estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to :5 710 000 and the Jewish documents center of Paris estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to :5 294 000 and even Dr. Korherr (who is jewish by blood and by faith) Estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to : 5 500 000…..how about 6 millions killed ?
    11- why gentiles cannot understand what you are (not) answering ?
    12-is it because non-jews are too stupid?
    13- why “jews“ can understand all these things that you are (not) answering ?
    14- is it because they are more intelligent?

    i am glad…because i finally found a “jews“ who will explain things that goyim cannot understand !
    by the way….every thing that i write here are not from gentiles…..but from “jews“ (khazars) !

    thank you for answering these questions and please help me understand !

  • The term anti-Semitism was invented in the 19th century by Jew-haters who wanted a more scientific name. Somehow the usage spread and it´s what we´re stuck with to describe Jew-hatred. Since “Semitic” refers to a language group, some people insist that hatred of speakers of other Semitic languages, like Arabic, should be called anti-Semitism. Most people don´t accept this, because of the long, undeniably unique history of Jew-hatred.

    Hamelin, now you´ve revealed you´ve been reading some Holocaust-denial type literature. Are you still insisting you´re not anti-Semitic? I encourage you to read some non-fringe scholarship about the Holocaust and keep an open mind. I hope you eventually realize that there are a lot of weird people out there, who also happen to hate Jews, who are willing to lie and distort and invent things to mislead people about Jews and the Holocaust.

    The Jewish nation/religion has citizenship rules, like any nation. You are a member of the group if your mother was Jewish, or if you convert according to Jewish law.

    My understanding is that DNA evidence suggests that the Khazars contributed relatively little to the gene pool of Ashkenazim. But as Ephraim explained, this is irrelevant, since it´s the “citizenship” requirements, not blood, that make one Jewish. Even if these French-Canadians have some Jewish DNA, it doesn´t make them Jewish, unless they know their entire maternal line has been Jewish, or unless they convert. Knowing you have some Jewish blood can be one motivation to convert, but it is not necessary at all, and tons of people have converted to Judaism just because they started learning about the religion and the people for some reason and came to believe in the religion and, despite the dangers of anti-Semitism, want to belong to the people. Some people have dreams or visions or strange recollections having to do with Judaism, and, despite having no genetic connection to Judaism, end up converting. As a side note, a Hassidic rabbi has a webpage and several books about people who he believes have reincarnated from Holocaust victims. http://www.pinenet.com/rooster/

    The Noahide commandments are the commandments given before Abraham, the first Jew, appears in the Bible. So Orthodox Jews believe that these commandments apply to all people. Now this may seem unreasonable to you. But keep in mind that unlike Islam, Christianity, Mormonism, and some other world religions, Judaism has never said that non-Jews are going to hell if they don´t believe in Judaism.

    You keep referring to Jews as Khazars. I hope you realize that Ashkenazim are only one group of Jews! Name-calling should at least make sense.

  • Hi there,

    since you keep avoiding the true questions, i’ll make it clear !

    1-can a convert be the king of Israel ?
    2-can a convert be a member of B’nai B’rith ?
    3-can a convert be the prime minister of Israel ?
    4-can a convert be a member of the “sanhedrin“?
    5-can a convert be the head of the W.J.C.?
    6-why 90 % of kosher taxes are paid by non-jews (gentiles)?
    7-what is the percentage of ashkenazim jews in the world jewish community?
    8-is it possible that YOUR messiah be a convert ?

    semite i.e. (from Sem or Shem, eldest son of Noah.) A descendant of Shem; one of the semitic races; a Shemite -a Belonging to Shem or his descendants. -Semitic, se.mit’ik, a. Relating to Shem or his descendants; pertaining to the Hebrew race or any other Kindred to it.

    please i am not anti-semite (since a large number of you guys are not semite), but anti-lies !
    the problem is that all things that i write here…..was by ….Jews !!
    Now if all these “anti-semite“ of anti-themselves jews are wrongs….(so the jewish document center of Paris are holocaust deniers ?)…..give me the proofs….not reincarnation stuffs…. i want to know the truth give it to me !
    you are the “jews“ so you must understand thing easier than gentiles….please help me !

  • Hi,

    i want to convert to Judaism but there is some little things that i don’t understand (maybe it is because i am a….gentile) can somebody help me understanding these fabulous “passages“ of the Talmud and other judaism’s books ?

    Rosch Haschanach(17a) — Non-Jews souls go down to hell.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Do not associate with gentiles, they shed blood.

    Abhodah Zarah (15b) — Suggest Christians have sex relations with animals.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Suspect Christians of intercourse with animals

    Sanhedrin, 67a — Jesus referred to as the son of Pandira, a soldier

    Kallah, 1b. (18b) — Illegitimate and conceived during menstruation.

    Sanhedrin, 67a — Hanged on the eve of Passover. Toldath Jeschu. Birth related in most shameful expressions

    Abhodah Zarah II — Referred to as the son of Pandira, a Roman soldier.

    Schabbath XIV. Again referred to as the son of Pandira, the Roman.

    Sanhedrin, 43a — On the eve of Passover they hanged Jesus.

    Schabbath, 104b — Called a fool and no one pays attention to fools.

    Toldoth Jeschu. Judas and Jesus engaged in quarrel with filth.

    Sanhedrin, 103a. — Suggested corrupts his morals and dishonors self.

    Sanhedrin, 107b. — Seduced, corrupted and destroyed Israel.

    Zohar III, (282) — Died like a beast and buried in animal’s dirt heap.

    Hilkoth Melakhim — Attempted to prove Christians err in worship of Jesus

    Abhodah Zarah, 21a — Reference to worship of Jesus in homes unwanted.

    Orach Chaiim, 113 — Avoid appearance of paying respect to Jesus.

    Iore dea, 150,2 — Do not appear to pay respect to Jesus by accident.

    Abhodah Zarah (6a) — False teachings to worship on first day of Sabbath

    Hilkhoth Maakhaloth — Christians are idolators, must not associate.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Do not associate with gentiles, they shed blood.

    Iore Dea (153, 2). — Must not associate with Christians, shed blood.

    Abhodah Zarah (25b). — Beware of Christians when walking abroad with them.

    Orach Chaiim (20, 2). — Christians disguise themselves to kill Jews.

    Abhodah Zarah (15b) — Suggest Christians have sex relations with animals.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Suspect Christians of intercourse with animals.

    Schabbath (145b) — Christians unclean because they eat accordingly

    Abhodah Zarah (22b) — Christians unclean because they not at Mount Sinai.

    Iore Dea (198, 48). — Clean female Jews contaminated meeting Christians.

    Kerithuth (6b p. 78) — Jews called men, Christians not called men.

    Makkoth (7b) — Innocent of murder if intent was to kill Christian.

    Orach Chaiim(225, 10) — Christians and animals grouped for comparisons.

    Midrasch Talpioth 225 — Christians created to minister to Jews always.

    Orach Chaiim 57, 6a — Christians to be pitied more than sick pigs.

    Zohar II (64b) — Christian idolators likened to cows and asses.

    Kethuboth (110b). — Psalmist compares Christians to unclean beasts.

    Sanhedrin (74b). Tos. — Sexual intercourse of Christian like that of beast.

    Kethuboth (3b) — The seed of Christian is valued as seed of beast.

    Kidduschim (68a) — Christians like the people of an ass.

    Eben Haezar (44,8) — Marriages between Christian and Jews null.

    Zohar (II, 64b) — Christian birth rate must be diminished materially.

    Zohar (I, 28b) — Christian idolators children of Eve’s serpent.

    Zohar (I, 131a) — Idolatrous people (Christians) befoul the world.

    Emek Haschanach(17a) — Non-Jews’ souls come from death and death’s shadow.

    Zohar (I, 46b, 47a) — Souls of gentiles have unclean divine origins.

    Rosch Haschanach(17a) — Non-Jews souls go down to hell.

    Iore Dea (337, 1). — Replace dead Christians like lost cow or ass.

    Iebhammoth (61a) — Jews called men, but not Christians called men.

    Abhodah Zarah (14b) T — Forbidden to sell religious works to Christians

    Abhodah Zarah (78) — Christian churches are places of idolatry.

    Iore Dea (142, 10) — Must keep far away physically from churches.

    Iore Dea (142, 15) — Must not listen to church music or look at idols

    Iore Dea (143, 1) — Must not rebuild homes destroyed near churches.

    Hilkoth Abh. Zar (10b) — Jews must not resell broken chalices to Christians.

    Chullin (91b) — Jews possess dignity even an angel cannot share.

    Sanhedrin, 58b — To strike Israelite like slapping face of God.

    Chagigah, 15b — A Jew considered good in spite of sins he commits.

    Gittin (62a) — Jew stay away from Christian homes on holidays.

    Choschen Ham. (26,1) — Jew must not sue before a Christian judge or laws.

    Choschen Ham (34,19) — Christian or servant cannot become witnesses.

    Iore Dea (112, 1). — Avoid eating with Christians, breeds familiarity.

    Abhodah Zarah (35b) — Do not drink milk from a cow milked by Christian.

    Iore dea (178, 1) — Never imitate customs of Christians, even hair-comb.

    Abhodah Zarah (72b) — Wine touched by Christians must be thrown away.

    Iore Dea (120, 1) — Bought-dishes from Christians must be thrown away.

    Abhodah Zarah (2a) — For three days before Christian festivals, avoid all.

    Abhodah Zarah (78c) — Festivals of followers of Jesus regarded as idolatry.

    Iore Dea (139, 1) — Avoid things used by Christians in their worship.

    Abhodah Zarah (14b) — Forbidden to sell Christians articles for worship.

    Iore Dea (151,1) H. — Do not sell water to Christians articles for baptisms.

    Abhodah Zarah (2a, 1) — Do not trade with Christians on their feast days.

    Abhodah Zarah (1,2) — Now permitted to trade with Christians on such days.

    Abhodah Zarah (2aT) — Trade with Christians because they have money to pay.

    Iore Dea (148, 5) — If Christian is not devout, may send him gifts.

    Hilkoth Akum (IX,2) — Send gifts to Christians only if they are irreligious.

    Iore Dea (81,7 Ha) — Christian wet-nurses to be avoided because dangerous.

    Iore Dea (153, 1 H) — Christian nurse will lead children to heresy.

    Iore Dea (155,1). — Avoid Christian doctors not well known to neighbors.

    Peaschim (25a) — Avoid medical help from idolators, Christians meant.

    Iore Dea (156,1) — Avoid Christian barbers unless escorted by Jews.

    Abhodah Zarah (26a). — Avoid Christian midwives as dangerous when alone.

    Zohar (1,25b) — Those who do good to Christians never rise when dead.

    Hilkoth Akum (X,6) — Help needy Christians if it will promote peace.

    Iore Dea (148, 12H) — Hide hatred for Christians at their celebrations.

    Abhodah Zarah (20a) — Never praise Christians lest it be believed true.

    Iore Dea (151,14) — Not allowed to praise Christians to add to glory.

    Hilkoth Akum (V, 12) — Quote Scriptures to forbid mention of Christian god.

    Iore Dea (146, 15) — Refer to Christian religious articles with contempt.

    Iore Dea (147,5) — Deride Christian religious articles without wishes.

    Hilkoth Akum (X,5) — No gifts to Christians, gifts to converts.

    Iore Dea (151,11) — Gifts forbidden to Christians, encourages friendship.

    Iore Dea (335,43) — Exile for that Jew who sells farm to Christian.

    Iore Dea (154,2) — Forbidden to teach a trade to a Christian

    Babha Bathra (54b) — Christian property belongs to first person claiming.

    Choschen Ham(183,7) — Keep what Christian overpays in error.

    Choschen Ham(226,1) — Jew may keep lost property of Christian found by Jew.

    Babha Kama (113b) — It is permitted to deceive Christians.

    Choschen Ham(183,7) — Jews must divide what they overcharge Christians.

    Choschen Ham(156,5) — Jews must not take Christian customers from Jews.

    Iore Dea (157,2) H — May deceive Christians that believe Christian tenets.

    Abhodah Zarah (54a) –Usury may be practiced upon Christians or apostates.

    Iore Dea (159,1) — Usury permitted now for any reason to Christians.

    Babha Kama (113a) — Jew may lie and perjure to condemn a Christian.

    Babha Kama (113b) — Name of God not profaned when lying to Christians.

    Kallah (1b, p.18) — Jew may perjure himself with a clear conscience.

    Schabbouth Hag. (6d). — Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording.

    Zohar (1,160a). — Jews must always try to deceive Christians.

    Iore Dea (158,1) — Do not cure Christians unless it makes enemies.

    Orach Cahiim (330,2) — Do not assist Christian’s childbirth on Saturday.

    Choschen Ham.(425,5) — Unless believes in Torah do not prevent his death.

    Iore Dea (158,1) — Christians not enemies must not be saved either.

    Hilkkoth Akum (X,1) — Do not save Christians in danger of death.

    Choschen Ham(386,10) — A spy may be killed even before he confesses.

    Abhodah Zorah (26b) — Apostates to be thrown into well, not rescued.

    Choschen Ham(388,15) — Kill those who give Israelites’ money to Christians

    Sanhedrin (59a) — `Prying into Jews’ “Law” to get death penalty

    Hilkhoth Akum(X,2) — Baptized Jews are to be put to death

    Iore Dea(158,2)Hag. — Kill renegades who turn to Christian rituals.

    Choschen Ham(425,5) — Those who do not believe in Torah are to be killed.

    Hilkhoth tesch.III,8 — Christians and others deny the “Law” of the Torah.

    Zohar (I,25a) — Christians are to be destroyed as idolators.

    Zohar (II,19a) — Captivity of Jews end when Christian princes die.

    Zohar (I,219b) — Princes of Christians are idolators, must die.

    Obadiam — When Rome is destroyed, Israel will be redeemed.

    Abhodah Zarah(26b) T. — “Even the best of the Goim should be killed.”

    Sepher Or Israel 177b — If Jew kills Christian commits no sin.

    Ialkut Simoni (245c) — Shedding blood of impious offers sacrifice to God.

    Zohar (II, 43a) — Extermination of Christians necessary sacrifice.

    Zohar (L,28b,39a) — High place in heaven for those who kill idolators.

    Hilkhoth Akum(X,1) — Make no agreements and show no mercy to Christians

    Hilkhoth Akum (X,1) — Either turn them away from their idols or kill.

    Hilkhoth Akum (X,7) — Allow no idolators to remain where Jews are strong.

    Choschen Ham(388,16) — All contribute to expense of killing traitor.

    Pesachim (49b) — No need of prayers while beheading on Sabbath.

    Schabbath (118a). — Prayers to save from punishment of coming Messiah.

    am i crazy……but i think it’s hard to find something worst in “hate literatures“ theses days !

    thank you so much!
    and remember your help and advices are welcome….i don’t want to go to hell !

  • Don’t be silly. Obeying the Seven Noahide laws given to all mankind after Noah’s Flood get absolutely anybody into Paradise. Relax. You will be fine.

    Angels are not subject to temptation so they have no moral struggle; that is why men are better than angels when they make the right choices. Angels don’t have to do that and can’t do that.

    We are required to pray for the government and to respect the law of any country we are in. “The law of the land is the law” is the phrase.

    Of course, there are three things we must die rather than do: adultery, idolatry, murder.

    Judaism is very liberal. More knowledge will help. What you are fighting with is not what we think or do anyway.

    Yes, we had a very unhappy time with Christians, for quite a while. So?

    It is useful if people of all kinds investigate their own heritages and not bother too much what other people think about their heritage. Keep your eyes on your own test paper, so to speak. Don’t worry about what the other guy is writing.

    But at least you care about life and stuff. That’s nice.

  • This stuff just isn´t true. Anti-Semites have been lying about the Talmud for ages.

    http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

    I suggest you flip through a translation of the Talmud, Mishnah, Zohar or other such book, or learn Aramaic and read the originals. You will not find any of these quotes.

    Your favorite authors are the liars, not the rest of the world. Get over it.

  • I did not have time to read everything. If you think you might be, or should be, a Jew, the nearest Chabad can look into that for you. They mean well and they know their stuff. It is not bad not to be a Jew if they say no. You can be fine either way, as a good Noahide or as a good Christian. God is not mean. He asks a lot but in a nice way. You can handle this.

  • Judaism is the ONLY thought-system, as far as I know, that says that people who are NOT IN IT, NOT members of it, can be completely fine people, just as good as its members, and go to Paradise, and sit in the front row with the best of the best.

  • Alas! Another sad victim of Nazi propoganda. F.Hamelin’s post is the copy of a Document of Lies being circulated and used by hate groups to promote Anti-semitism. If you really want to be educated, read the Jewish response to this junk. Dude don’t be so gullible as to believe everything you read second hand! Read the following if you are really “Seeking truth” as you say. If not why not spend your time at a Nazi website we’re this stupidity is welcomed.

    “The anti-Semetic document “The Talmud Exposed” which has gained in popularity because of the Internet, claims to show the true nature and intentions of the Jewish people by quoting damning statements from the Talmud. The problem is not only are these alleged examples of nefarious Jewish tactics and bigotry taken wildly out of context but in many cases simply misquoted. But of course accuracy and good research are not the hallmarks of the bigot. As we at HateWatch say, don’t just believe what you read either from the bigot or from HateWatch, do the research yourself. We suggest that you the reader take a look at the citations of both the “Talmud Exposed” and this response and compare for yourself. In doing so, we are confident that you will come to the same conclusion that we have, that the disseminators of this anti-Semtic tract are trying to forment hatred against the Jewish people by lies and half-truths.
    For examples of this text and information on the individuals reprinting this anti-Semetic tract online, please refer to these racist web sites; ex Klan leader, Don Black’s Stormfront and Holocaust denier Michael Hoffman’s, Campaign for Radical truth in history. For more information on these online bigots, please read the HateWatch’s biographies on Don Black and Michael Hoffman.”

    http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart1.msnw

    http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart2.msnw

    http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart3.msnw

    http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart4.msnw

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/qts.html

    http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/722.htm

  • (Post 42 was referring to the Seven Noahide Laws which apply to all mankind, putting them ALL in good with G-d. This concept is an integral part part of Judaism!!)

    Yes, hear Susan and Ted.

  • Hi,
    jewish mother !
    i was expecting a answer like yours !

    i would suggest you to read stuff like (not sure if you can have all these things in english !)

    -rabbi David (Paul Louis Bernard) Drach (the famous french rabbi who converted to catholicism in the 19th century….he wrote several books like “harmony between the Church and the synagogue“

    -father Joseph and Augustin Lemann (two jewish rabbi who converted to catholicism)

    -Francis Libermann (son of a rabbi he converted to catholicism)

    -Theodore Ratisbonne (jewish rabbi who converted to catholicism)

    and i recommand you to read stuff like:

    -August Rohling-the talmudic jew-
    a money reward have been offered to anybody who would give proofs that his translation of the talmud were false…..nobody showed up !

    -chevalier Gougenot des Mousseaux-
    who wrote several books on judaism !

    it seems that the only “refute“ you guys have is…..“hey it’s not true !!“ or “well…dude…a rabbi wrote a book about “holocaust victims“ reincarnation“…or “you are a HOLOCAUST DENYER !!! ohhhh noooooooooooooo“ or the classical one “you are anti-semite“

    it seem, to you guys, that denying the existence of a “holocaust“ is worst than denying the existence of God ! (or G-d)

    now let get it back:
    1-why a convert cannot be the king of the jews?
    2-why a convert cannot be prime minister of Israel ?
    3-why a convert cannot be a member of B’nai B’rith ?
    4-why a convert cannot be a member of the “sanhedrin“?
    5- why a convert cannot be at the head of the W.J.C. ?
    6-why a convert cannot be your Messiah ?

    Jewish mother i feel that you will convert me !!
    please hurry !

  • Wait a minute, why are people debating with an idiot, because he’s taunting you? Hamelin, if you ask dumb questions, make stupid remarks and then retort to responses with meaningless idiocy, of course you’ll end up frustrated and cutting and pasting from your ridiculous sources.

    By the way, before I insult you some more, how does it feel to know that the greatest historian among your folks – David Irving – is sitting in jail right because the crap he has published has been exposed as antisemitic claptrap?

    And Hamelin, I do wonder, how does it feel to be stupid enough to cut and paste from sites that copy from other sites that copy from sources that got it wrong in the first place? 😆

    You are our newly annointed moron.

  • Hi middle,

    1-the truth is i never read something of D.Irving and i didn’t know he was in jail ! (since when ?)

    2-ohhh…sorry… i respond with idiocy…..well that is in your head, because not only YOU guys respond with idiocy but it is clear that YOU are idiots……i asked if someones had answers about my questions…..but YOU guys keep screaming about “holocaust denyer“ and “anti-semitism“…. can you answer the last questions i showed up ?
    yes or no ?
    if no shut up !
    thanks

  • Hamelin, your comments are ignorant and idiotic. Sorry, there’s nothing I can do about that. Maybe it’s your ancestry, I understand they may have come from the criminal element in France.

  • “You are our newly annointed moron.“

    you mean exactly like you did with Jesus-Christ ?
    i take that as a compliment….but i don’t deserve to be compare with the King, because he is and by far superior to me and to gas chambers too !

    thank you

  • hi middle again,
    criminal element in France…. you mean the french jewish community ?
    i don’t know maybe !

  • I am going to assume that Mr. Hamelin means well. I grew up in Quebec and while les Quebecois are fine and cosmopoltan people, sometimes older, outmoded ways of thinking continue to cling. Despite that, Quebecers are still warm and hospitable people. Now onto you questions – which you ought to probably address at a Rabbi or something …

    1-why a convert cannot be the king of the jews?
    King David was the great grandson of a convert (Ruth). Converts have, as far as I know, all the rights and obligations that born Jews have, except for some issues relating to the priesthood.

    2-why a convert cannot be prime minister of Israel?

    Again, never heard of that law. I know that anyone not born in the USA cannot be president of the US but I know of no similiar law in iSRAEL.

    3-why a convert cannot be a member of B’nai B’rith?

    I know converts who are active in Bnai Brith so that’s false.

    4-why a convert cannot be a member of the “sanhedrin“?

    Never heard of that law.

    5- why a convert cannot be at the head of the W.J.C. ?

    WJC is an organization whose leadership has advocated the promotion of more lenient rules with respect to the issue of who is a jew. There is nothing preventing convert from being a member of the WJC which is, in any case, a lay and not religious organization(Une organization laïque et non-réligieuse).

    6-why a convert cannot be your Messiah?
    Again, I have never read anything of the kind. The messiah is supposed to be of the seed of King David, the grand son of a convert.

    I also know that it is considered improper and a sin to discriminate against a convert. Even mentioning that they are a convert is a sin.

    Hope that helps Mr. Hammelin. Soyez gentil.

  • I am dumbfounded.

    Ck, you know very well when people “mean well” and when they’re “outmoded thinkers.” Look at what he was saying, his sources and the general theme of his comments. Why the gentle and kind treatment?

    I’m a little confused here, so bear with me. On the one hand, we now promote antisemitic websites with “website of the weak” with links and cutesy descriptions. The idea being that we fight them with this mockery. On the other hand, when a full-blooded attack on Jews using vile sources that are completely up to date and not outmoded in the least, and represent the most reprehensible side of hatred of Jews that can be found short of physical violence, suddenly we’re polite and answer graciously? Why? Why not treat people according to the treatment we are accorded? The idea is not to give the David Irvings an inch of room. They need to be treated with contempt, ignored and shunted aside.

    Really, I’m more than confused and happy to hear what our purpose is over here. Are we now the website of the weak?

  • Hi,
    thank you !
    1-now do a catholic can be part of Israeli government?
    2-can a jew be part of the us government ?
    3-can a catholic gentile be part of B’nai B’rith ?
    4-can a jew be part of the société st-Jean Baptiste ? (in Quebec)
    5-can a catholic gentile kid can go to a jewish school ?
    6-can a jew go to a catholic school?

    je serai gentil (puisque je suis déjà un gentil !)

    thanks

  • i just want to assure that i never physicaly attacked a jew and i will never do !
    and when ever the life of a young jewish kid (or what ever) will be in danger, i will be the first one to help !

    thanks a lot !

  • Indeed, Hamelin, I saw your profound maturity with the following “gentil” comments:

    but speaking of the “jewishness“ of the french canadians…..can we speak now , of the jewishness of the jews themselves…oh oh !!!
    several JEWISH historians (like Arthur Koestler, Benjamin Freedman and many more…their studies have never been refuted, by the way)have pointed out that ashkenazims were not jewish but not even semite ! in fact it is fairly said that 90% of the world jewish community are not even semite, but originated from a turk-mongol descent from the old kingdom of Khazaria at the south of Russia,
    and recent genealogycal studies have ended up to the conclusion that a large percentage of sephardic are no way jewish !( the famous americain history magazine, the Barnes Review, have pointed that one out, several times)
    so that would mean that the zionist racket “the land of Israel belong to the(non)Jews“ is a total aberration to the truth, history and intelligence !!

    bye bye

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/10/2005 @ 10:30 pm

    Hi Susan,

    here is some good links, there you will find out how “jews“, as you say it, are absolutely not “Yehuda“.
    You are of Turk-Mongols descents not of Abraham’s descent, in these books, if you are honest and if you want to know the truth, you will find that Ashkenazim “jews“ are just “goyim“ as Inuits !

    Because what’s in our heads and the facts…..are two extreme differences !

    If you think that you can brake a tree with your head…. try it ! but, it is possible that the truth will be a “HARD“ truth ! (i am very sorry Susan)

    http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/

    http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/factsR1.html

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/21/2005 @ 1:37 pm

    That is why i gave you adresses for on-line books… now go read the books….or shut up !

    thanks

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/21/2005 @ 10:17 pm

    Hi,
    oh sorry i don’t want to offend anybody here !
    i am a little bit nervous and i am just asking some questions here !
    sorry for that again !

    After all these years….i always think that a jews was by race only…(how stupid i am)… thank you so much for letting me know that a jew is by faith only !

    can you just answer some question that a few gentiles (ashkenazim) have pointed out ?
    (this is only for my well being)

    1- what is the difference between B’nai B’rith and B’nai Noah ?
    2-why a member of B’nai Noah cannot be a member of B’nai B’rith ?
    3-you say that you would hardly take Koestler for a expert……excellent….so you will easily refute his work right now on this forum….since he is not a expert and he is wrong !
    4-please refute Freedman on-line and right now too because he did the same studies.
    5- why is there so much atheists“jews“ in Israel who claim that palestine is their land…since Israel belong to jews (by faith only)
    6- so that would mean that if my mother was jewish by race only (but not by faith)then i am not a jew (so Susan…is the mother of your grand father was jewish by faith….because if she wasn’t…your grand father wasn’t too)
    7-why “jewish“ authorities DO NOT encourage conversions ?
    8-so the king of Israel may be a “jew by faith only“?
    9-what does “anti-semite“ mean ?

    thank you and remember this is only for my well being !

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/22/2005 @ 12:00 am

    Hi there,

    you are not answering one of the questions….
    this is a pure joke!

    again !

    YOU SAY KOESTLER IS NOT A EXPERT !

    1-IS HE RIGHT OR WRONG ?(because if he is right….you are in big troubles !!!)
    2-why is there laws who apply to jews and non-jews…..?
    3-why non-jews have to obey to the 7 commandments of Noah ?
    4-why cardinal August Bea was member of the B’nai B’rith and “catholic“ ?
    5-no the word anti-semite doesn’t apply to someone who think that you are a clown….since you are not even a semite, but a khazar.
    6-Semite is a word who describe peoples who descents from Sem by blood !(uuuuhhh…..physical….no…. stupid gentile i am) well you are thinking just like a goy right now because you refer to physical terms…
    7- so you admit that ashkenazim are from Khazaria ?
    8-do palestinians (the true ones) are semites ?
    9-maybe you can be a semite by faith too ?
    10-genocide ? what do you mean….(ohhh yes….the genocide).
    Mr. Arthur Rupin who is jewish (by blood and by faith) estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to :5 710 000 and the Jewish documents center of Paris estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to :5 294 000 and even Dr. Korherr (who is jewish by blood and by faith) Estimated the EUROPEAN jewish population before 1940 to : 5 500 000…..how about 6 millions killed ?
    11- why gentiles cannot understand what you are (not) answering ?
    12-is it because non-jews are too stupid?
    13- why “jews“ can understand all these things that you are (not) answering ?
    14- is it because they are more intelligent?

    i am glad…because i finally found a “jews“ who will explain things that goyim cannot understand !
    by the way….every thing that i write here are not from gentiles…..but from “jews“ (khazars) !

    thank you for answering these questions and please help me understand !

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/22/2005 @ 8:58 am

    Hi there,

    since you keep avoiding the true questions, i’ll make it clear !

    1-can a convert be the king of Israel ?
    2-can a convert be a member of B’nai B’rith ?
    3-can a convert be the prime minister of Israel ?
    4-can a convert be a member of the “sanhedrin“?
    5-can a convert be the head of the W.J.C.?
    6-why 90 % of kosher taxes are paid by non-jews (gentiles)?
    7-what is the percentage of ashkenazim jews in the world jewish community?
    8-is it possible that YOUR messiah be a convert ?

    semite i.e. (from Sem or Shem, eldest son of Noah.) A descendant of Shem; one of the semitic races; a Shemite -a Belonging to Shem or his descendants. -Semitic, se.mit’ik, a. Relating to Shem or his descendants; pertaining to the Hebrew race or any other Kindred to it.

    please i am not anti-semite (since a large number of you guys are not semite), but anti-lies !
    the problem is that all things that i write here…..was by ….Jews !!
    Now if all these “anti-semite“ of anti-themselves jews are wrongs….(so the jewish document center of Paris are holocaust deniers ?)…..give me the proofs….not reincarnation stuffs…. i want to know the truth give it to me !
    you are the “jews“ so you must understand thing easier than gentiles….please help me !

    Comment by F.Hamelin — 11/22/2005 @ 10:52 am

    Hi,

    i want to convert to Judaism but there is some little things that i don’t understand (maybe it is because i am a….gentile) can somebody help me understanding these fabulous “passages“ of the Talmud and other judaism’s books ?

    Rosch Haschanach(17a) — Non-Jews souls go down to hell.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Do not associate with gentiles, they shed blood.

    Abhodah Zarah (15b) — Suggest Christians have sex relations with animals.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Suspect Christians of intercourse with animals

    Sanhedrin, 67a — Jesus referred to as the son of Pandira, a soldier

    Kallah, 1b. (18b) — Illegitimate and conceived during menstruation.

    Sanhedrin, 67a — Hanged on the eve of Passover. Toldath Jeschu. Birth related in most shameful expressions

    Abhodah Zarah II — Referred to as the son of Pandira, a Roman soldier.

    Schabbath XIV. Again referred to as the son of Pandira, the Roman.

    Sanhedrin, 43a — On the eve of Passover they hanged Jesus.

    Schabbath, 104b — Called a fool and no one pays attention to fools.

    Toldoth Jeschu. Judas and Jesus engaged in quarrel with filth.

    Sanhedrin, 103a. — Suggested corrupts his morals and dishonors self.

    Sanhedrin, 107b. — Seduced, corrupted and destroyed Israel.

    Zohar III, (282) — Died like a beast and buried in animal’s dirt heap.

    Hilkoth Melakhim — Attempted to prove Christians err in worship of Jesus

    Abhodah Zarah, 21a — Reference to worship of Jesus in homes unwanted.

    Orach Chaiim, 113 — Avoid appearance of paying respect to Jesus.

    Iore dea, 150,2 — Do not appear to pay respect to Jesus by accident.

    Abhodah Zarah (6a) — False teachings to worship on first day of Sabbath

    Hilkhoth Maakhaloth — Christians are idolators, must not associate.

    Abhodah Zarah (22a) — Do not associate with gentiles, they shed blood.

    Iore Dea (153, 2). — M