So the pig who killed Yitzhak Rabin, Yigal Amir, has been seeking to fornic, er, have more “physical contact” with his (apparently loonie, I would think) fiance, a woman with the improbable name of Larissa Trimbobler.
Trimbobler and the unrepentant murderer of an Israeli hero claim to already be married because some messenger delivered something or other to his cell. Some rabbis from the Rabbinical court in Jerusalem are going to sit in a room and decide whether this makes for a valid marriage under Jewish law. I say that if they sanctify this marriage and call it proper, all married Jews should divorce so as not to allow the ruin of the sacred institution of marriage.
In any case, the concupiscent [here, ck: www.dictionary.com] Amir, who as noted above would like nothing more than to schtupp the Mouse Trimbobler, has been given what Rabin did not get: due process. An actual judge, paid a state salary, had to hear government-paid counsel argue for and against the schtupping. He, the judge, decided against, in large part because Amir is unrepentant.
In other words, if you don’t feel bad enough, you don’t get to boff dame Trimbobler. That’s right, apparently the issue is no longer that a murderer should not be allowed to have his gonads goosed, or to produce offspring, or to feel the loving touch of a spouse against their flesh – precisely what he denied to Leah and Yitzhak Rabin. Nope, the ruling is about his lack of remorse, not his lack of humanity.
Now just in case you think I was kidding about Amir’s state of need, you should know that he has attempted to go beyond what the prison allows its prisoners, the hugging and holding of their guest. That’s correct, he has attempted to have public, uh, proximity to his (completely off her rocker, in my humble opinion) beloved.
Meanwhile, as Amir was forlornly deserted with his meaningless erectio, er, desire for the Trimbobler babe, other Israelis have apparently been living it up.
Yup, Ynet reports that even as Amir lives ascetically in his little cell, missing the warmth of the potential spousal unit, Trimbobler, a significant chunk of the Israeli populace has been eating and smoking their way to heart disease, stroke, obesity, diabetes and, really crappy lungs. It turns out that about 1 million Israelis smoke and another 2 million don’t exercise. Ever.
I think I support “transfer” of these people to Jordan. Israel would be much better off if its smokers and over-indulgent people were sent away. I wonder if Jordan is finally ready to accept some Jews?
While we’re at it, can we”transfer” that snake Amir with them? Trimbobler, of course, would not be allowed to go.
Alex, you can stop arguing. That’s fine. The conflict isn’t stopping and the war isn’t stopping and the decisions will have to be made over time as to what’s going to happen because the situation is unsustainable indefinitely.
And Josh, I’d like to have the Palestinians want peace first but they don’t, so we have to address the situation somehow. I realize we disagree, and frankly our disagreement reflects an ongoing disagreement within Israel itself. At least the current PM, as well as the last, seem to share my view on things and not yours.
Do you think we’re all stupid and all want to gamble with Israeli lives?
look honestly I dont want to continue this argument. In my view all your ideas have been tried and failed a million times. Lets agree to disagree and that it.
In the fall before the assasination,
Rabin started showing regrets with the blind progress and evident lack of Palestinian compliance.
As for the death,
T_M, please refrain from ‘taking risks’ which you make at others’ expense. Come live in Israel, serve in the army or volunteer for the civil guard police, and/or take the bus everywhere and only then take risks with yourself on the line. I’m sick of others taking risks with Israel lives.
I think pushing 1500 DEAD JEWS over the past ten years, mostly people minding their own business in places far from combat areas, is already enough sacrifice for peace.
Let the Palestinians want peace first.
Claiming that the Hamas acknowledging the ’67’ borders ‘a major concession’ is quite defeatist from the beginning.
any good will gestures,any peacefull overtures should be made when neither Hamas not the ideology that fuels it no longer exists.Peace is made after the battle not during. How can you make peace with one part of the enemy’s army when the other is still attacking you? Dont you understand that Hamas and terrorism dont take place in a different dimension away from other “peace loving Palestinians”? After the Sinai accord was hammered out ,the state of war between Israel and Egypt ended immediately. No infiltrators, no tolerable casualties ,no process. Immediate cessation of all violence. The idea that Palestinians will slowly learn to hate Israel less while exploding a few buses here and there with no retaliation isnt what peace is about.that kind of process lead to the Oslo war.
Alex, if you go back to the 20s, there was terror against Jews in the Land of Israel. Same with the 30s. And 40s. In the 50s there was enough of it that Sharon made a name for himself with retaliatory raids and Israel went to war in ’56. The 60s witnessed a lull because the Arabs were busy creating the PLO. But after ’67, we began to see Palestinian global terror, and of course terror directed against Israelis in Israel. Same with the 80s. In the 90s, there were also…terror attacks. In the period between 1994 and September 2000, there were fewer terror attacks than over the next year.
Here take a look at 1993-2000
Then take a look at 2001 2002 2003
Okay?
You might be thinking about things differently because what Arafat did effectively was use judicious timing with the attacks. So, for example, Peres never got to be elected because of a couple of well-timed attacks in 1996 (ever wonder why the Palestinians prefer a Right wing Israeli gov’t to a Left wing one?).
But I think the most important point is the absolute stop on terror that you seek. Why?
I don’t want any terror. I think anybody involved in terrorism should be shot. I support deterrents like home demolitions for those involved in terror (even after they die).
What does wanting to stop terror have to do with demanding 100% end to terror? Why would I want to give the power to some asshole from Hamas or a similar group to completely derail a peace program by shooting at an Israeli or blowing up a bus?
Let’s see if I understand you. You hate terrorists and terrorism to the point where you want it completely eradicated. However, you are willing to let these sub-humans have veto power over any diplomatic or politicial initiative that you want to take regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict.
You sound like the best friend of Hamas and Hizbollah. According to you, we could spend reources on peace, make good faith efforts, the majority of Palestinians could support true peace, their leadership could be making efforts to curtail terror groups’ activities, Arab nations around Israel could be making peace overtures…but you would stop everything if there’s a terror attack.
Hamas thanks you for making them so powerful.
I differ from you because I think it’s a show of strength to minimize terror attacks as greatly as possible while dictating how things should proceed diplomatically and politically. If there’s an attack, I put the screws on the other side to come down on the people involved but continue to do what I want to do because my interests are more important than Ahmed’s from Hamas. He will always want to sabotage any peace talks. Why let him?
As far as I’m concerned, when you talk about “tolerable civilian casualties,” you are saying things that I did not. I would prefer there be not a single casualty, but I don’t believe that’s realistic. It is realistic, however, to create circumstances where potential casualties are minimized and you still push through your political goals.
Be strong, don’t be a victim.
Also, don’t use the zero terrorism excuse to conveniently avoid making the difficult choices a peaceful compromise requires.
No T_M the TERROr DURING OSLO was SEVERAL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE WORSE THEN DURING THE MILITARY OCCUPATION . See when you say that that the idea that terror must end completely is an extremist idea thats when I feel that we have nothing to talk about. In every other country besides Israel,peace means 0.0 dead.Otherwise what the point? Hows it better then war? The idea of “tolerable civilian casualties” is a crime against humanity. It’s human sacrifice. I just feel that our opinions are so different that it would take me an essay to get my whole point across and I dotn feel like doing that.
Alex, the terror didn’t stop, and neither did the settlement building…
The terror then was nothing compared to what came about after Oslo died.
We keep going around in circles. Israel is trying again because it must continue to try. I don’t know about you, but I want peace. I also refuse to let the extremists dictate what is going to happen, which is what we do when we say terror must end completely. It can slow considerably and that should be enough. If the Palestinians use it as a weapon anyway, with the knowledge and or approval of their leadership then we can punish them all day. However, we must still strive for peace, on our own terms, and realize that if we wait for them the situation becomes worse for us.
I dont think he was an idiot I think he was a good soldier but a poor politician.. Anyway the whole point of peace is that there are no victims and no terror.Also as far as I remember the agreement stipulated that the whole process was supposed to cancelled if there was terror. Rabin promised that it would be so and didnt carry out that promise. He didnt have the power of foresight but now today 1500 dead have very clearly shown that the idea of land for peace doesnt work. And the fact that Israeli goverment is trying it again with Arafat’s second in command is well .. maybe they are dumber then a hampster like Bart in one Simpsons episode. They keep getting shocked but dont learn the lesson.
Alex, I don’t know that either is logically impossible. In fact, we could debate that if you like. But what’s your point, that he was an idiot or a confused human being? He was neither.
Look, those of us who support Oslo-like solutions may be wrong. But those people who support a continuing presence among the Palestinians might also be wrong.
I believe that the views of people like me are more pragmatic and more likely to secure Israel in the short and long term. Therefore, they are worth trying. Is there risk? Yes, to some degree. But I would bet that Oslo would not have ended up as it did were it not for the couple of years lost while Netnayahu was trying to obstruct it and for all the years that we continued to build settlements while talking about a two state or two entity solution.
I have that were Rabin to have remained alive, we would know far better whether Oslo could have worked.
without going into why I dont believe in Oslo I just want to say t Rabin coined this ” gem” -“we will fight terror as if theres no peace process and will will pursue peace as if theres no terror. ” He also invented the term “victims of peace”. Both are logically impossible.
I believe that he, like Sharon, had enough confidence among Israelis that he would be able to sway the population to his vision. I believe that he understood the necessity of some form of compromise with the Palestinians, although to what degree he believed that his actions would lead to a Palestinian state as opposed to autonomy remains unclear to me. I believe that he understood that Israel’s ability to survive and thrive in the future depended upon achieving certain understandings with the Palestinians.
In my mind, where Barak ended up is probably farther than Rabin would have gone in 1995, but that Rabin would have eventually arrived at pretty much the same place. Oslo was a compelling idea and one that might have led to a form of peace. I know you reject this thesis, but the truth is that both sides violated Oslo and therefore we didn’t have a chance to see the accords’ full potential.
I wish I could prove these things I’m saying, but a certain horny pig who seeks to have sex with a murderer-loving woman, killed Rabin before enough time would pass to see his ideas in full form.
T_M why do you think that Rabin somehow had the right idea on how to make peace with the Palestinians?
Wow, you made me read all of those questions, most of which I’m positive Rabin’s daughter has little interest in having answered. I feel a little embarrassed for the authors, who obviously spent a great deal of time trying to suggest some complex conspiracy…that of course removes blame from those kindly and sweet right wingers and settlers who never ever write death threats and never ever bad mouth sitting PMs with egregious language and comparisons. Never. It’s always Shin Bet moles doing the nasty deeds.
Anyway, while the 58 questions hint at a conspiracy of sorts, not one indicates that anybody but Yigal Amir murdered an Israeli PM, who was also a hero and a veteran of the struggles to establish and maintain the state of Israel.
It is entirely clear the role of Yigal Amir in the murder of Rabin. Period. Some may wish that it be unclear if they belong to a group that feels that he brings a collective cloud of guilt to them. It’s understandable they would say this, but it doesn’t change the fact that he murdered a PM who was seeking to find compromise with the Palestinians.
I don’t recall mentioning home confinement as appropriate punishment for Vanunu. He deserved prison. I do think what he served and how he was made to serve was excessive, and I don’t believe he created such severe harm that he deserved to be destroyed as a man. He was severely punished for an infraction similar to the actions of government ministers just a few years ago.
As for comparing the two: one murdered and has potentially caused the countless deaths and maimings of others; the other revealed information that Israel had been dangling in front of the world for years and nobody has even been injured, much less killed, as a result.
Like you said, Vanunu broke the law and deserved jail. He exposed secrets he swore not to reveal. He was sentenced to several long years in solitary. Now you say it was too much? So tomorrow, I take pictures of the inside of the new Merkava 4 tank and sell them to British papers. You would give me, ummm, a few weeks of home-confinement? But I enhanced the ambiguity of this super-tank!
We all are so proud of the bomb we haven’t admitted to have in stock, and you rationalize that Vanunu did us a favour by revealing it. I strongly disagree with you. If he wouldn’t have opened his yapper (he talked, not just took pictures), the issue might still be clouded in some secrecy, which is much better for national security. The Arabs already knew we had Dimona back then, but after Vanunu, they had real pictures inside, and inside info too.
Now, Lisa and T_M,
the difference between Vanunu in solitary confinement and Amir who is also in solitary confinement, BY THE WAY, is that Vanunu still knew/knows what ‘was’ inside the plant. Obviously, some is still outdated, but not all. Amir, on the other hand who was tried and convicted of killing Rabin, does not have state secrets to expose. All he did was pull the trigger, right? Any information he might have know about how the prime ministerial bodyguards worked has sicne changed or can be read about in various US secret service books or Clint Eastwood movies.
Or maybe, just maybe, there is more to the Rabin assasination and maybe he does know much more than the government and authorities want you and me to know. Solitary confinement does not mean a 2X2 metre padded cell or not talking to anyone else except prison guards. It means not being with general population, but still allowed to meet family.
Lisa, your wishes are not Israeli law, or Jewish law, I believe. ‘Eye for and eye’? With that exact logic, Amir should have to father some babies and forced to give them up for adoption to infetile couples. Take a life, give a life.
T_M,
it is VERY unclear the entire part Amir played in this event. Even Rabin’s daughter wants these questions asked:
58 questions (in hebrew) written almost 10 years ago and still relevant today.
http://www.hazofe.co.il/web/katavaAdir.asp?Modul=24&id=5504
In my opinion, Vanunu didn’t. He actually enhanced Israel’s position because he proved nothing conclusively and only strengthened the ambiguity that Israel may have nuclear weapons. Israel has always promoted this ambiguity anyway because it serves as a deterrent.
However, he did violate laws and his obligations, so he deserved prison. However, so many years with so much of that time in solitary seems unfair to me, especially in light of the relatively benign treatment Yigal Amir is getting.
ok the goverment has a right to talk about secret goverment matters no? didnt Vanunu endanger the security of Israel with his actions?
I don’t think Vanunu should have been executed. The Israeli government, under Netanyahu, pretty much came out and admitted they had nukes when they panicked once after some Iranian maneuver. None of them went to prison.
Vanunu deserved prison, but all those years and in solitary, just for essentially generating greater suspicion that Israel had nukes was excessive.
Amir deserves to be hung upside down from his balls daily.
both Vanunu and Amir simply had to be executed.
Lisa, great point.
Josh, Amir’s role was quite clear.
Sex in an Israeli prison. That’s hot.
I’m disappointed that Yigal Amir couldn’t be executed.
But TM, how do you feel about Amir? 😉
I really think that if Mordecai Vanunu had to sit in solitary for most of his 15-year sentence, then the least the jail authorities can do is force Yigal Amir to remain celibate for the rest of his life (sentence).
sex in jail? I guess then there’s no worry about droppin yer soap.
Whether you like it or not, the law is different in Israel.
Jail is a crap hole, but after a few years, even ‘hardened-criminals get weekends off to go home for shabbos. Virtually anyone in jail can have ‘relations’, even Arab mass murderers.
So, on that basis only that virtually every Israeli prisoner can have sex in prison with an invited guest, why is Yigal Amir (no matter what part he actually played in the Rabin assasination) different? Is he ‘evil’? Is he worse than other muderers currently in prision? I have a really hard time with countries that make new laws to deal with one specific person.