Eilat Sinai border

Eilat/Sinai border – photo by Phoebe while on the recent birthright israel/Jewlicious trip.

Hash, Whores, Hamas and You.
Two of the victims of the Eilat Suicide bombings, Emil Almaliakh (32) and Michael Ben-Sa’adon (27) were buried yesterday and a third, Israel Samolia (26) is going to be buried in Miami where his family lives. Despite assertions by Egyptian spokesmen that it was impossible that the suicide bomber, Gaza Strip resident Muhammed Faisal al-Saksak entered Eilat from Egypt, it seems to be that that is in fact the case.

But how did this happen exactly? All indications are that Saksak was somewhat of a dolt – not exactly prime-quality, Grade A suicide bomber material. First of all members of his family, including his proud Mom (Mrs. Saksak?), and some of his acquaintances knew that he was planning on carrying out an attack because he told them. Ordinarily, suicide bombers intent on carrying out their missions keep their mouths shut. When Saksak entered Israel, he was wearing a large red coat. Such a coat is great when traveling across the Sinai desert, because it gets really cold at night, but in Eilat it makes you really stand out. After 7 months of training, you’d think Saksak’s handlers would advise him to ditch the coat, especially since the bomb was in his backpack and not on a suicide belt. You’d also think that they’d teach Saksak some rudimentary Hebrew or Geography – when asked by the cab driver who picked him up where he wanted to go, Saksak mostly grunted and then said “Haifa.” No one picks up a cab in Eilat, Israel’s southernmost city, to go to Haifa located in Israel’s north.

So how did such a complete moron make it across the harsh Sinai terrain and manage to cross the border into Israel undetected? Probably in much the same way illegal immigrants and drug smugglers do it – with the aid of local Bedouins who know the area like the back of their hands.

The Bedouins in question are not some secret and shady organization – they are in all likelihood the Azazma Tribe – a well known and much feared criminal organization who live on both sides of the Israel/Egyptian border. What makes these criminals unusual is that they will work for anyone who pays them. Fighting between Israeli criminal organizations, like the feud between the Abergils and the Abutbuls, has no effect on their operations and no criminal with any common sense crosses the fierce Azazma Tribe. Their specialty is smuggling anything across the border into Israel. These operations include the movement of illegal immigrants, sex trade trade workers, cigarettes, consumer goods, weapons and drugs. There is every reason to believe that they also provide assistance to terrorists, both in the West Bank and Gaza – as long as they pay their bills in full and on time.

So next time you and your buddies go off to Tel Aviv for a special massage with a happy ending, or next time you light up your darker variety of North African hashish (now that Lebanese Blond is no longer available), keep in mind that your are supporting an organization that aids and abets terrorists. It’s all fine and good to boycott Hezballah Hash from Lebanon when it’s already unavailable – but will conscientious hash smokers now refrain from all hashish? Will suburban housewives in Israel stop hiring illegal domestic help? Will Israeli men refrain from availing themselves of sex-slave prostitutes? Not any time soon I don’t think.

Thus as we in Israel try to establish who was responsible for the piguah in Eilat, was it Islamic Jihad? Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade? Hamas? – we ought to also add to that list of suspects – the people and the state of Israel who by active involvement or passive acquiescence, facilitate criminal activities that serve only to encourage the terrorism in our midst.

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About the author

ck

Founder and Publisher of Jewlicious, David Abitbol lives in Jerusalem with his wife, newborn daughter and toddler son. Blogging as "ck" he's been blocked on twitter by the right and the left, so he's doing something right.

47 Comments

  • don’t follow, you are blaming the victim? If someone does not drink alchohol as you do, no vodka, beer, wine, but enjoys an occasional toke of hash, or a vapo of weed, why is that such a problem, for you?

    Besides, it is very easy nowadays to just mail it from said region.

    It still is the fault of the Israeli political sector that never responded properly to such attacks years ago.

  • Here’s an idea, and it’s not original. Decriminalize hash. Decriminalize prostitution. Let people who want to avail themselves of substance and/or sexual service go through legal means to get ahold of what they want with their hard earned money and then it won’t go to any tribe or smuggler.

    In other words, don’t criminalize things people want and then accuse them of supporting smugglers when they try to get them.

  • Silly ck. Everybody knows that blond hash comes from North Africa and that the dark, crumbly, bricklike, headache-inducing hash comes from Lebanon. I think they cut it with soap, dirt and children’s tears. Damned terrorists!

    I second the Muffti.

  • Legalization is a nice idea, one which I don’t object to terribly. However, until Israeli potheads can get their shit together to launch an effective campaign, smoking hashish smuggled into the country by the same networks that smuggle in terrorists is lending support to terrorism. And even if we legalize cannabis and prostitution, the smugglers will continue to operate – they’ll still smuggle illegal workers, tax-free goods like cigarettes and luxury items, and terrorists. All I was saying, without passing judgment on the merits of smoking hash, is that as the situation currently exists – smoking hash in Israel supports criminal enterprises that aid in the perpetration of terrorist acts in Israel.

  • GM – you’re right. The argument about decriminalization, both here and at Jewschool, has been hashed over enough.

    …sorry Michael, I know you don’t like my puns much (re: Yossi Beilin). Can’t stop myself…

    But you have to be careful with this fingerpointing thing. In my beautiful Espana there is the same moral dilemna. The porrito (hash/tobacco cig) is a staple of any dinner party among most social groups. La policia no miran when the hipsters sit in La Placa Catalunya crumbling their little bricks into Lucky Strikes. But, as politically and socially correct as they are, they don’t talk about what kind of people are making the stuff and what kind are bringing it up from Morocco. Even for Holland where it’s regulated, it still has to be understood that it’s grown elsewhere and grown illegally under the auspices of organized crime/criminal governments.

    My point is, unless you also decriminalize and regulate the means of production and importation, then these drugs will always be tainted by criminal enterprises that exploit their own poor populations.

  • A glass of wine is enough. How big a glass is a deeply personal decision, and don’t forget the bracha. Two if it has been a bad day. No excuses. How do you suppose our ancestors got through? And you have to know how to handle it.

    That other stuff wasn’t invented then and isn’t manly. Gee wiz.

  • I am so glad you didn’t mention the problem of oil and automobiles, which is a mere drop in the bucket to the anti-Zionist powers that be. Clearly Iran’s economy is fueleder, powered by um, BOOSTED by handjobs and marijuana. That’s how they afford a nuclear program, war by proxy in Lebanon, and funding Hamas. Same with Saudi Arabia! What do you think gives this non-capitalist country such power influence? Clearly illicit handjobs and marijuana.

    Please — let us continue to bury our own heads in their sand. Nothing to see here, folks! Drive along! And remember, just say no to drugs! If you say no drugs and sex massages, the power of Israel’s enemies will just run out of gas!

  • However, until Israeli potheads can get their shit together to launch an effective campaign, smoking hashish smuggled into the country by the same networks that smuggle in terrorists is lending support to terrorism

    That’s bullshit, ck. In fact, this article suggests that criminalization is everyone’s probelm and that means that not only teh potheads should get together but you should as well. It’s in your interest not to have them live under oppressive laws where there only recourse is to buy from enemies.
    You’re right that they will still smuggle in items and sell them tax free. And, Muffti agrees: if you have the option of buyign something legally and then instead cheap out, you are supporting terror and should be ashamed of yourself. But pointing the finger at the people you pointed at, where the problem is nearly entirely created by retarded government drug legislation is as shameful as those odd US commercials where a kid gets arrested for smoking a joint and then the ad rhetorically asks ‘[Is marijuana really] harmless?’

    Ramon, you are right. So the answer is to legalize the production methods as well. just as we do with alcohol. Just as we do wtih cigarettes. Shame on them for creating situations in which criminal industry can thrive.

    JM, prostitution and drug use is as old as, if not older, than wine production. And there ain’t nothin’ all that manly about sipping two glasses of wine.

  • Muffti – I would vote for a party that had as its platform the legalization of cannabis products – as long as it wasn’t accompanied by retarded stuff like “and, and free pizza too man, and like government subsidized cheetos and… and… oh man, I am like, so high right now…”

    No recourse? Yeah there’s recourse. Don’t buy hash from people who help terrorists. Do you want to get high that badly?

    As for the sex trade – I am not opposed to that either per se – just that part of the industry where women are smuggled in to the country and forced to work as prostitutes without compensation and against their will. Surely you find at least that offensive, no?

  • Accusations of abetting terrorism really ought to be reserved for those who launder money, forge documents, buy ammunition, or participate in other methods of directly facilitating terrorist activities. Because accusations of indirect or attenuated support constitute nothing more than a meaningless game of Six Degree of Yasir Arafat. Kelsey couldn’t be more on the money; are hash smokers culpable? Sure; to precisely the same extent as those who drive SUV’s, keep the thermostat below 78, and don’t shit in low-flow toilets. Not to mention, as others have, the immeasurably greater culpability of government officials with the actual power to influence events by bringing about decriminalization. Absent some direct relationship between hash smokers and terrorists, to single them out for opprobrium carries the stench of Republicanism, and its tactics of smearing its enemies with accusations of treason, appeasement and surrender.

  • david smith: Did I single out hashish smokers? No… read the post and my comments again. I mentioned anyone who purchases, benefits from or makes use of the goods and people smuggled across the Sinai border. While this list includes hashish, it also includes sex-slaves, illegal workers, cheap tax-free cigarettes and other items. In Israel, when you support most criminal enterprises, you also support an infrastructure that facilitates terrorist attacks. Can the government do something about it? Undoubtedly. Can we as individuals also do something about it? Absolutely – hence my final paragraph:

    Thus as we in Israel try to establish who was responsible for the piguah in Eilat, was it Islamic Jihad? Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade? Hamas? – we ought to also add to that list of suspects – the people and the state of Israel who by active involvement or passive acquiescence, facilitate criminal activities that serve only to encourage the terrorism in our midst.

    I am not trying to come off as holier than thou – I implicitly included myself on that list.

    Dang… doesn’t anyone read anymore?

  • abumishmish,
    Ahlan sadiqi! Not every member of the Azazma tribe is a criminal! In fact many on the Israeli side of the border are cops!

    Uh oh…

  • Ya ck,
    so watch out, while smoking in front of an azazma cop.
    Dir balak!
    shalom
    abu

  • CK, terrorism is supported by Iran. What is the difference if a terrorist hotshot makes a few mill for himself ? Money for ops they are going to have regardless.

    Why men need to attain comfort w/ a hot slavic blonde?

    There are many reasons, but obviously, they are not finding passion and comfort w their wives/gf’s.
    Perhaps that 2 week separation thing?

    Why some people prefer Cannabis, which is as old as anything.? Bec. it is better, more natural, cheaper.

    in moderation, I strongly agree.

  • CK, the bottom line is that Israel is ignoring Iran who is the biggest threat to Israel;’s existence since 1948.

    this other crap you mention is childs play compared to the monsters in Iran who must be destroyed, now.

  • If the edge needs to be taken off, stick with wine.

    The other stuff works too well. That is the problem with it.

    It is good to be happy, but we are not here to have witless grins on our faces. We are “the people Israel” and that means “wrestles with G-d”. We should feel good, but not too good. Even when having a nice time, we should remain us.

    That is what I meant by it being unmanly it makes us stop wrestling.

    The other stuff works so well that it risks becoming a spouse! That does not lead to grandchildren! A real man is married to a woman, not that.

    We need to know the difference between honest pleasure, and a stupid, dopey brainlesss grin. I admit it is a hard distinction to know. I am aware you can get into big trouble with alcohol, too. Alcohol can be a useful tool, but it is an edged, dangerous tool (it is a poison); you have to be careful, and pay attention. You don’t relax around a chain- saw, do you?

    You really have to be careful, as life can be dangerous enough, straight as an arrow.

    The other stuff is not family-friendly.

    Yes, it’s been around forever, but it’s not part of our culture. There’s no bracha for it.

    I KNOW it works better, less hangover, blah blah. That is EXACTLY the problem! It WORKS TOO WELL.

  • JM, ck, Ramon, David, all others, I would myself pick The Other Too Well Working Thing over alcohol any day. But as it is, I’m not going to obtain it from the local biker gangs who would happily substitute it for something more nastier because of “sorry, today we are out of that stuff but try this instead”. In here, it’s not terror groups who sell the stuff, it’s often those tattooed people who carry semiautomatic pistols in their pockets. The net result is similar, and a rational person is left to wonder about the sanity of the prohibition.

    JM, on the subject of history and usage in the past, what’s your take on Sula Benet’s research regarding “kaneh-bosm”?

    Or does “kaneh-bosm” refer to Calamus? As a small botanical trivia it should be made known that also Calamus happens to contain something to aid individuals in their escapistic tendencies and surely such properties have been known for a long time.

    In other words, you will likely find creative uses of nature’s offering wherever you look. I consider wine to be a wonderful example of these offerings. A good wine can enhance food to whole new levels, and, well, make life overall more enjoyable in the right setting. We are not here to eat shit and feel bad every day, so why not make some days special and enjoy the things we can use?

    And as for the others craving for the herb, why not just grow your own? Why import products which have morally bad externalities attached? I don’t want to advocate growing or non-growing, other than to say that gardening is a good hobby, regardless of whether one grows a cactus or a cucumber, but I am slightly puzzled about the logic of not considering the entire value chain when thinking of buying.

    And Ramon, Barcelona indeed is truly a wonderful city. I encourage all to visit it and feel some envy towards to those who actually live there!

  • Finnish – it’s tough to find seeds in Israel (not that I’d, uh, know or anything), and given that electrical outlets in my apartment have melted from just having a heater plugged in, I’m a little worried about what a power-intensive appliance like a grow lamp might do to our archaic power grid.

    But once I move somewhere more remote, oh man, I am going to tend such a fine garden. Of bonsai, of course. I love bonsai.

  • Finnish, I said we should be happy and not miserable. I also said I knew the other stuff had been used forever. But by other people. Not us. As for Sula Benet, one interesting doctorate from Columbia does not a Jewish tradition make.

    The other stuff came in at the same time as marriage went out, in the sixties. No, that is not a proved correlation. But it is interesting.

    Have a glass of wine with someone marriageable and think about it.

    With the other stuff, I just don’t think the results will be the same.

    No bracha, don’t drink it. That knocks out vodka too.

    Big conclusion: If your life is so unpleasant that a glass of wine is not enough to feel better, then maybe it is time to take an ax to the unpleasant aspects of your life. A glass of wine should be enough. Kick some a. No silly grins, please. That just does not work.

  • It dulls a man.

    It is totally nauseating on a woman.

    How women do you date who do that? If you do, what do you think of them?

    That is why I said it was unmanly.

    I am so sorry this is the world my generation bequeated to yours. You don’t remember anything else.

    So, in penance, here I am, a relic, telling you to stick to wine.

    I never did that. I got married.

    If it was known forever, and did not become a Jewish tradition, I guess Chazal didn’t think it was something to include. There is an implicit rejection there, although not recorded. We just left it out. Do thou the same.

    Re read the Song of Songs. King Solomon mentions vineyards, not .. bonsai. You are not smarter than Shlomo Ha Melech.

  • To tell you the truth, when I find out a girl I date “does that,” I’m pleased, because it means we can add another fun activity to our relationship. I wouldn’t date a teetotaler, since casual “doing that” is part of my life, a part I’m in no way ashamed of, and I feel like that’s something a potential partner has to accept about me. Women using drugs certainly doesn’t cause me to lose respect for them, if that’s what you’re implying. That would be hypocritical and, dare I say it, unmanly.

    And if you’re worried about the dulling effects of certain drugs, well, might I recommend speed? 😀

    About the Song of Songs, well, it wasn’t written by King Solomon, as any Hebrew linguist could tell you…but let’s say it was, just for the sake of argument. If we’re going to accept traditional interpretations of his character, i.e. that he was a boozing, shiksa-lovin’, idolatrous womanizing sonofabitch, then it probably stands to reason that, had the option been available to him, he would have indulged in the (more than) occasional puff, snort or what-have-you. Solomon would have been that guy doing lines off the naked bodies of nubile Egyptian princesses and then screaming, “LET’S SEE YOU PHILISTINE BITCHES TAKE ON THE KING!!”

    And of course, drawing a moral distinction between one type of socially-accepted drug use and its resulting intoxication and that of another is specious at best.

  • It’s not specious. because the physical and mental effects are not the same.

    Speed dulls people as well as anything else.

    Well, I am traditional. Maybe you’re not.

    There are traditions around wine that are old such as convivial eating and savoring and kiddush making.

    Maybe you are making your own traditions with something else, who knows. But that isn’t traditional Judaism.

    I am a very practical person and I advocate sticking with what has a long track record of working socially and religiously, if done right.

    You are taking a risk. It don’t think the potential benefits justify the risk. That is always how one evaluates a risk: is the game worth the candle. Well it’s not, here.

    I wasn’t selling you the private life of King Solomon. Nor King David. You will be telling me about his sins, too, next.

    Cheap shot.

  • It is not specious, because they have different physical, mental and social effects on the consumer.

    Saying “no” to something is just such a good thing to do; it strengthens one’s inner rebel. Do you really want to be so go-along? You’re allowed a glass of wine! You’re over 18. You will be expected to handle it, however. Like a man.

  • Leave chalice burning to others. We raise it, we don’t burn it. We do without cheeseburgers, too, and are none the worse. Thanks for the music.

  • Are you saying there aren’t traditions around weed? Especially traditions relating to convivial eating and savoring? Have you MET any stoners? Hell, if you don’t believe that a rich web of traditions has grown around the consumption of marijuana, I’m going to have to direct you to Song of the Day Number 2 (I love teaching by example!).

    Risk-taking is, of course, a personal choice. And nobody said drug use was traditional Judaism, although traditional Judaism certainly doesn’t forbid it – if I had a shekel for every Orthodox stoner I know, I’d be taking a bath in an Olympic-sized pool of hummus right now.

    And seriously, it’s been well established by neutral researchers that a casual, moderated drug habit is no more harmful to you than a casual, moderated liquor habit. In the case of some drugs, it’s even less harmful. Compare “marijuana toxicity” to “cirrhosis of the liver.” And I’ve never seen a violent stoner, although I’ve seen plenty of violent drunks.

    And it remains utterly specious. The “physical, mental and social” effects a drug may or may not have on a consumer are a pretty lame reason to illegalize all drugs, except those drugs of course that we’ve arbitrarily decided are okay (including alcohol, caffeine, and naturally the exciting and multi-colored host of uppers, downers, and sidewaysers you can get right down the street at your local pharmacy).

    First, of course, all drugs act differently on different people, depending on their physiology, their mood, their surroundings and countless other factors, meaning no drug causes one set effect, whether physical, mental or social. Alcohol makes some people sad and quiet, and other raging lunatics, but just because it has the potential to bring about undesirable social and physical effects doesn’t mean we make it illegal – except, of course, that one time we tried. Remember how well that went? We accept the need to exercise responsibility and wise consumption in the case of alcohol, but for some reason, people aren’t allowed to exercise that same responsibility and wisdom when it comes to other, often more innocuous drugs.

    Second, drugs are neither inherently good nor evil, and there is no drug, alcohol included, that can bring out a personality trait in a person that wasn’t already there.

    And I’ve said “no” to drugs many times – when I wasn’t in the mood, when I had something important to do that I wanted to be sober for, when I had other plans. You know, like almost all drug users who don’t let enjoying themselves a little get in the way of their responsibilities, those aforementioned wine drinkers included.

  • Let me just mention right away that any intoxicant can indeed create personality changes that were not already there. I have seen this personally. The one I am thinking of was a very sweet naive young woman, and she went to the nut house, nicely browned, permanently, showing aspects that certainly were induced, and not there before.

    But anyway.

    I didn’t say there were no traditions around this. I said our tradition was not around this, and you agreed with me.

    Then you said our tradition does not forbid it. Here is a fuller picture of how tradition regards this:

    We traditionally let everybody have a little wine, in a very solemnized way. Anybody who SHOWS a personality change from it in an obvious way is criticized, and ridiculed hard, as “shicker”, and viewed as totally low-class, and feh, yucky, stupid and worse.

    The people you mention are doing an irreligious thing: they are getting loose outside of a kiddush; they are not inviting G-d to their party. That is not Jewish. Nobody has told them that, because they are too cagey to ask.

    The Ashkenazim have never had to deal with this before. I have no idea about the Sefardi take on this, or how they stave it off; they are the ones who have been in the warm countries.

  • We traditionally let everybody have a little wine, in a very solemnized way. Anybody who SHOWS a personality change from it in an obvious way is criticized, and ridiculed hard, as “shicker”, and viewed as totally low-class, and feh, yucky, stupid and worse.

    Never farbrenged with a Chasid, huh?

    But let’s say for the sake of argument (and also for the sake of it being true) that there were a lot of religious Jewish drug users who mix drug use with religious experiences, who “invite God to the party.” Does that make it okay? I mean, maybe Chazal didn’t do it, but Chazal also didn’t eat kugel, make their wives wear wigs or knock back a few shots at the kiddush at shul, and all those things seem to be widely accepted as part of traditional Judaism now.

    But really, if you’re arguing that any and all substance use has to be in the context of religious traditions, well, then we’re talking way past each other.

  • About the Song of Songs, well, it wasn’t written by King Solomon, as any Hebrew linguist could tell you…but let’s say it was, just for the sake of argument. If we’re going to accept traditional interpretations of his character, i.e. that he was a boozing, shiksa-lovin’, idolatrous womanizing sonofabitch, then it probably stands to reason that, had the option been available to him, he would have indulged in the (more than) occasional puff, snort or what-have-you. Solomon would have been that guy doing lines off the naked bodies of nubile Egyptian princesses and then screaming, “LET’S SEE YOU PHILISTINE BITCHES TAKE ON THE KING!!”

    Absolutely one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while. Thanks for the deep belly laugh.

    Mind you, drugs are illegal and they seem to support an underground that may be involved with terrorism against Israelis, but what the hell, if bringing up King Solomon’s drug using habits won’t convince Israeli authorities to decriminalize drug use, what will?

    I know! Maybe if the US stopped the War on Drugs…

  • I don’t support the things you mention. It is not a perfect world alas. I hate the “kiddush club” syndrome, hate it. I don’t think anybody should go too far with this, no matter how black their hat, or how good their Yiddish, or learning.

    I am with you on all that.

    Having a glass of wine and saying a bracha is “using in a religious tradition”. That is ok. If you can handle it in a manly way.

    About women and alcohol: our blood volume is much less and our livers are much smaller and our bodies process sugars much more efficiently (alcohol is a sugar in addition to being a decorticating agent and a poison).

    Women: careful. It is not the same for you as him. It is going to hit you harder and faster. And no matter what the liberal men say, it is going to have much worse social consequences for you.

  • OK, I will shut up in a minute, but when a man decides on someone to trust with his home, he wants someone whose eye is clear, and who just doesn’t. Never did, is even better. And the people he used to “date” and get loose with just have to mutter, about how they were taken in. Because they were.

    To get the complex happiness of marriage, one has to forgo the more simple-minded paths to another kind of less demanding and less rewarding happiness. I am concerned about the place-holder effect. You feel ok one way, so you don’t bother with the other, more advanced, grown-up way.

    You stop being a wrestler with G-d. You just chill, and leave the wrestling to others.

    That’s not manly.

    Just saying. Shalom to all.

  • Hey JM,

    I always like reminders of that image of Jacob. And for me, this is probably because I go too far to extremes, but enough of my friends have been badly bruised in their intense affairs w/alcohol for me to enjoy watching people get sloshed.

    So I agree w/the Muffti and you in this case.

    Was it R. Nachman of Bratislav that could just walk in the fields or the forest and have visions of angels himself? Do you think I’ve been too tainted by my Celtic side that I sing “Hiney mah tov” to trees? (I should learn the beautiful-tree bracha.)

  • Finnish, I’m not actually a Bcn resident but it is my home away from home. Not because of the porritos or nightlife (it can be a bit too techno-hippy for me) – but because the accepted attitude towards what constitutes happiness is just too damn refreshing. When meeting someone at a social function, the common icebreaker isn’t “So, what do you do for a living?” I love that.

    Liratov and JM – I like you brought up the Jacob wrestling with G-d image. There’s a Kabbalah interpretation of the parable (I have to find it somewhere in the book pile) I’ve always liked. The idea is that the angel appeared to Jacob as Jacob, yet in his divine state. Jacob wrestled with his divine self, and by surrendering he was able to reach his divine. For me, in my writing, it’s always been an important parable, because we wrestle with our ego, self-doubt, inhibitions and other’s expectations and by letting go – as Jacob did – we’re able to find the truth in our work. When one of us were struggling with a piece of work we used to joke… “Dude, you gotta stop wrestling with you angel.”

    But we do wrestle with how many beers it’s safe to have before driving home. It’s all valid.

  • Jacob didn’t let go. Jacob won. Then he wasn’t mean about it, he asked the other guy to bless him. Then he got a new name, our name. Yes, he limped after that. The guy left him a permanent souvenir. That always happens.

    He won. He didn’t do sweet surrender. He won. It wasn’t easy, either. The other guy did not throw the fight.

    Jacob won. The hard way.

  • I meant to say by surrendering his will to the divine. But it’s always been kind of confusing, I think because of the unusual use of the pronouns “he” and “him” in the passage, that the debate could be who the pronoun was referring to at any given time, Jacob or the angel. According to this Kabbalist Rabbi’s interpretation it was the angel who asked Jacob for a blessing.

    JM – I’m not saying I know the correct interpretation. In any case, Jacob won by surrendering his will to G-d. Although the other guy was kinda throwing the fight for a bit by not using (his/her) divine power… until the hollow thigh incident.

    Those Kabbalists always make things interesting, don’t they?

  • Yes, they do. I read that the blessing Jacob asked for was the blessing his father had intended to give Esau. That by making Esau’s angel give it to him, in a fair fight, he was able to meet Esau in person later and be received peacefully. Esau had already lost, in the person of his angel.

    The fitght shows someone absolutely refusing to be defeated, no matter what it takes, and is very moving.

  • I’ve heard people interpret that the angel was a form of God. And that it foreshadows a salvation by submission to God.

  • Jewish mother you are completely brainwashed into thinking than old traditions cannot develop with time, the torah has been rewrtiien at least 3 times for good reason but every time Genesis 1:29 has allowed teh use of herb.

    there is no brocha for heart medicine or cancer drugs
    there is no brocha for using a computer, driving a car so how dare you do these thinsg whilst judging everyone else as an inferior being just cause you can’t handle the truths of life and must run sober into dellusionment.

    herb predates all “drugs” as its completely natural and grows wild of its own accord all over the middle east including Israel, its as natural as manhimself.

    btw do you advocate all the teachings of the talmud?all of them? thought so so shut up till you can talk about something you actually know something about.

    earth was made in 7 days, sure….

    time to rebuild the temple and rewrite teh talmud for this century as traditional judaism has done through teh ages to stay as spiritual leaders – even mohammed said so himself…..

    maybe if you smoked a little herb you’d be intellegent enough to question your brainwashing and learn something. or does teh worship of gods prevent you from questioning…

    i could go on all night but i’m sick of you judgemental religious sex freaks, eveolution will make you extinct soon enough.

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