I have been dating a guy for 2 months who is perfect on paper. He runs a successful restaurant business, is attractive, chivalrous and extremely giving and affectionate. To top it all off he comes from an insanely wealthy Jewish family and I would be set for life if I married him. He just told me he wants to take me away on a ski weekend vacation to Colorado. My hesitation is, there is no â€œva-va-va-voom.â€ I don’t feel insanely attracted to him and there isn’t much sexual chemistry. I am trying to be patient and give it a shot, and he is doing everything right, but something is still not sitting right with me. What should I do?
â€œDating and Confusedâ€
Dear â€œDating and Confused,â€
He sounds like a fabulous guy. Stop over thinking things and let the romantic chemistry and sexual spark naturally develop. If 6 months go by and there is still no spark, re-evaluate things. But, maybe you are putting up an internal block to fully falling for him? No guy you meet will be perfect, and although chemistry is crucial to a lasting relationship,Â relationship dynamics can evolve over time. Be patient and not as judgemental. When your mind starts over analyzing every interaction with him, remember â€“ only through living life will the correct path for us be brought into clarity.
Danielle will answer your questions about family, relationships, careers, religion, love and life – write to her at email@example.com
- Dear Danielle - 4/18/2010
- Dear Danielle - 4/15/2010
- DEAR DANIELLE - 2/5/2010
How many singles that come from ‘insanely wealthy Jewish’ families run restaurant businesses? You better hope he doesn’t get wind of this letter.
Zvi, I suppose this is a satirical piece of fiction.
Sex is the deal breaker. Sounds like a shallow life. Unless you are having sex 24/7 what about the rest of life together?
No one cares about this kind of stuff on Jewlicious.
…says the guy who is already married and no longer has to concern himself with dating issues. Lighten up LB Chassid!
Is this not meant to be satire? ……….
No froylein. It’s not satire and there is merit to the advice. Are you suggesting every woman should settle for nothing less than va-va-voom?
CK, I’ve told you in private, but it appears you wish to take this public. So be it.
What I suggest is that an advice column should be written by somebody qualified to do so, and when I suggested one tongue-in-cheek months back (after realising the blog’s got qualified contributors at hand), you shrugged it off.
Therefore I thought that the post was meant satirically on top of the advice given being outrageous.
Relationships aren’t all about sex, but to get to that point, there has to be a relationship to begin with. A one-sided attraction met by the realisation – to the face – that feelings are mutual while in reality the mutual feelings are based on attraction to the social status and not the person would make any decent person suggest to maybe re-evaluate things swiftly as a matter of fairness towards the hopeful potential partner.
All studies concerned with attraction among partners in heterosexual relationships indicate it’s a matter of a fraction of seconds for women to determine whether they can consider a man a possible, future sex partner.
I’ve nowhere said that women should settle for sex, but I don’t think today’s social realities make for them settling for bank accounts either.
Closing your eyes and thinking of England is the social reality of the past.
I shrugged it off?? Was that when I was feverishly ill? Because I sure don’t remember!
As for the instant attraction thing, some people are just slow burners. Man, if I had to count on instant attraction for my social life, I would spend a lot of time alone. Potential partners need to spend a lot of time with me to get to know the ck inside, because on the surface, well, I won’t mince words, I look like a scary thug. The situation isn’t analogous but somehow I find myself in sympathy with our Little Lord Fancy Pants with his Fancy resto business and his Fancy Ski Trips to Colorado. Maybe he too is a slow burner that “Dating and Confusedâ€ should be patient with. I’m just saying is all. I like Danielle’s advice here. Give it some time. Seems reasonable.
I do remember and in detail, too, what your exact reasons were for rejecting the suggestion.
I’m not talking about becoming friends but sexual compatibility. Women, literally, can smell whether a man is sexually compatible to complement their genetic make-up.
This guy described in the case above isn’t slow or he wouldn’t be successful in a business that relies heavily on social interaction. He sounds like a great guy, but not for the letter writer.
Don’t waste any more of his precious time and emotional resources and groom a friendship before things turn awkward.
What froylein said. Danielle thinks the correspondent overanalyzes, when in fact she’s (quite sensibly) trying to get outside her own head and understand the sexual interaction. Anyway, if he weren’t rich and Jewish, one suspects the advice would be very different.
This feels pretty shallow. While sexual chemistry is important, I agree with Tom in his assertion that if said bachelor wasn’t rich it would be a “don’t let the door hit your face on the way out” type situation.
There’s a bigger issue involved here Tom and Beth. The bigger issue is that of instant attraction as a necessary prerequisite for the contemplation of a longer term relationship. Now I know they’ve been seeing each other for two months but I think the fact that he’s wealthy is a red herring. I think the woman in question should give him a chance – maybe 6 months is a bit long – but certainly more than the 2 months they’ve been seeing each other! I say this on behalf of all men, myself included, who do not make a spectacular first impression. Seriously, if all the women I have ever dated did not give me a chance well… lets just say I might as well have joined a Trappist Monastery. Just call me Brother ck.
CK, again, it’s not about learning about personality but determining sexual compatibility. If it’s not there, it will not come. You can get used to forcing yourself to sleep with somebody, but really, is that a relationship of the meaningful, loving, and respectful kind?
The letter writer clearly admires the social status and looks of that guy, but where do you see her making any substantial comments on his personality other than in character traits that are linked to him forking over $$$? Could it quite possibly be that she’s aware he’s a trophy? The advice points in the same direction, and I’m seriously appalled by it. This is not about a relationship where dynamics have changed after a while and somebody’s seeking advice on how to grow back together.
Froylein: So you correlate a loving, meaningful and respectful relationship with immediate sexual magnetism? Does that really make sense?
That is not what I said. Again, women can determine within a fraction of sections whether a man is a possible, future sex mate as their genetic make-ups complement each other. Women can literally smell that. Just as little as person’s genetic make-up will change will a woman find a man more sexually attractive after a while.
The days when women were legally represented through either a first-degree male relative or their husband have thankfully been gone for a long while. For a longer while even, women have been able to pursue studies and careers. “Faking it” (deliberately) for the sake of a social status, a wealthy catch etc. is pretty much whoring yourself out. If that were the mutual agreement (as it was not uncommon till the 1950s), so be it, but matters are obviously one-sided in this case.
I liked the advice in this column.
Give it time. Give it a chance. Why not?
The letter writer is clearly not into the person but his social status. That is apparent throughout the letter. All qualities of character described are directly linked to him spending money on others. On top of that, there is rock-solid knowledge that sexual compatibility does not develop over time.
Money related attributes:
1) Runs a successful business
2) Extremely giving
Non-money related attributes:
Only 40% of the “qualities of character described” can be linked to any pecuniary personality traits. Running a successful business also speaks to his level of responsibility and other non-pecuniary attributes. 60% of the cited positive features have nothing to do with money. Perhaps the focus on that issue is more reflective of our predispositions than hers. That having been said, I’m glad the women I have known haven’t relied on their first impression of me when deciding whether or not to pursue further romantic entanglements.
Yes. I know she mentioned that he comes from a very wealthy family. But that’s not him.
Since when has “attractive” (as in looks only as we learn from the elaborations) been a character trait? And that this woman pretty obviously links “affectionate” and “chivalrous” (as I’ve learnt, not even most European women have got the faintest idea of what “chivalry” actually means) to her interests in money matters has not only appeared to me but to other readers I’ve been in touch with off the blog that couldn’t believe that something like that would go up on Jewlicious – and that is on top of her lamenting a lack of attraction, mentioning the wealthy family and contemplating “be[ing] set for life” through marriage after only two months (!) of dating.
Running a successful gastronomy business also speaks of his ability to connect and interact socially; a quality of his you doubted earlier.
But again, sexual attraction does not grow over time. Either the compatibility is there or it isn’t. Prostitution is not the answer to the shidduch crisis.
If you don’t have a sexual attraction to your partner, you will have one for other partners. It’s that simple, so I wish these two pretenders good luck with their status based marriage.
I’ve seen several marriages that made a lot of sense in a resume- matching, to-all-external-appearancss kind of way, fall apart painfully over sexual incompatibility. No one should risk heading down that road.
Sometimes humans have to admit that we are at times more animal than we think we are. 🙂
Sashka, Happy New Year! Some humans are like shashlik, with a stick up… 😀
Same to you. Very true!
OK so without getting into details, I had a friend. Let’s call him Calvin. And Calvin met Rivka. At first Rivka resisted getting into a relationship with Calvin but Calvin pursued her for a year. In that time, they got along great, spoke often, had a great connection but Rivka did not want anything physical. One day, perhaps under the influence of certain substances, Rivka allowed herself to get physical with Calvin. Thus began what Rivka described as a mind blowing physical relationship that complemented their “friendship.” Apparently this scenario is not so unusual. How does one explain that froylein?
Self-deception due to conditioning. “Substances” not unusually have that effect. ‘shrooms are particularly bad in that regard.
Have I never told you about the guy that goes into fetal position whenever he sees a cat now?
I don’t often do this on matters other than culinary, but I kind of agree with froylein here.
I’m not saying that sexual attraction could not develop over time. When I first laid eyes on the woman to whom I’ve been married for more than 35 years, I did not think she was a raving beauty. But things seem to have worked out. We actually did get to be friends first and then just sort of one thing led to another. But I digress.
The “Run screaming in the other direction” siren-complete-with-flashing-lights thing in this letter is that nowhere does she say she actually likes the guy. He’s “perfect on paper”, nice, successful, and comes from a rich family and she would be “set for life” if she married him. There’s nothing wrong with being concerned about the future economic well-being of one’s family, and if she were just a gold-digger, she would marry him and would never have written the letter. But she is obviously upset that in spite of it all she just isn’t that into him. In my book, that’s all she wrote. If they do get married, it will be a disaster, and it will all be her fault, pretty much.
What she’s saying is that in spite of the fact that she WANTS TO BE attracted to him, she isn’t. This bothers her because he’s obviously a catch (on paper). So she’s considering trying to do all it takes to be attracted to him when she obviously isn’t.
Like I said, she doesn’t even say that she likes him. For his sake, I hope to G-d they don’t get married, because she’s sure to cuckold him if they do.
Oh my goodness. We have ascribed a lot of negative traits to this woman. If she was a gold digger, she wouldn’t even think about it. She obviously has some conscience. In none of this discussion is there an admission that it’s even remotely possible for sexual attraction to develop over time. That’s what I take umbrage with.
froylein: The substances involved are not the kind that cause anyone to go into feral positions. The relationship was long term and very physical, still going strong as far as I know. And without the benefit of substances. Self deception and conditioning? Are you suggesting Rivka was brainwashed?? Are people that easy to manipulate? If so then I better get me some substances… and then please point me to Bar Rafaeli!
CK, lately you’ve made it a habit of suggesting I had said things I hadn’t actually said by turning them into mock rhetorical questions. I think you can do better than that.
What I’ve said was an explanation in response to your question namely that substance use can cause self-deception through conditioning. To clarify, one time abuse can suffice to pull the trigger, figuratively speaking, when a certain stimulus appears. There is no need to keep taking substances to cause such an effect.
Not saying that this is it, but you asked how this could be, and there is a possible answer.
I wonder whether any conquest made “under the influence” is actually worth considering a conquest, but that’s a different discussion altogether unless you wish to suggest to the letter writer to spur things with the help of prosecco or whatever second-rate alcoholic beverage kids these days believe to be classy.
You may take umbrage with the notion that sexual attraction from women to men does not develop over time, but that’s rock-solid science. Like it or not. Women are more discriminating for a reason when it gets to mating.
The real danger for the letter-writer is that it’s possible to rationalize the absence of sexual attraction; minimize its importance; or even actually convince oneself that it exists when it doesn’t. She’s being encouraged to engage in one or more of these rationalizations, essentially because the guy is a macher who would impress her parents. This is really, really bad advice.
The letter writer has now been dating the same guy in question for 3 months. After relaxing and giving the relationship a chance, she has come to admire his personality and good nature and a great sexual connection has developed. She has told me they are “falling in love.”
Who are we fooling?
I guess money really is an aphrodisiac.
You’re just learning that now?
All along I thought it was my natural charm.
That’s harsh, but I sympathize – I have to rely on my good looks.
Once the Nasdaq gets back up to 5000, you and everyone else should be OK. They don’t call it a bear market for nothing.
Tom sure looks sexy tonight.
I don’t make this money for me, froylein– it’s to attract chicks and make sure the world doesn’t run out of Catholics.
See, why can’t you just, eh, make yourself a little more attractive and CK a happy man?
An old joke:
A stunning beauty walks into a party on the arm of a old, fat, bald, hook-nosed, hunchbacked dwarf with a limp. She is sporting a dazzling necklace, the centerpiece of which is a gigantic, flawless diamond of astonishing brilliance.
All the women crowd around ooh-ing and ahh-ing. They ask about the diamond.
“This is the famous Lifschitz diamond”, the beauty says. “It’s one of the most sought-after diamonds in the world but it comes with a curse”.
“A curse? What kind of curse?”
“Lifschitz”, sighs the beauty, indicating the dwarf on her arm.
I’ll be here all week, folks. Try the veal!
I’ll tell Rabbi Yonah to book you for the festival. 😉
This is the stupidest, worse advice ever.
“and a great sexual connection has developed”
That’s what she said! Oof.
No, but seriously. We only know that she thinks it’s great. I’d like to know the guy’s opinion.
“If she was a gold digger, she wouldnâ€™t even think about it. She obviously has some conscience. In none of this discussion is there an admission that itâ€™s even remotely possible for sexual attraction to develop over time.”
You’re right, CK. She’s a conflicted golddigger!
Dear Danielle. The Muffti is dating this rich woman he isn’t attracted to and has no chemistry with. However, the Muffti made this great ‘on paper’ list which includes being set for life, and as stated above, she’s rich. Of course, if she wasn’t rich, Muffti would head for the hills coz who the fuck wants to be in a relationship with someone who is poor, sexually unnattractive and with whom you fail to have chemistry. Luckily for this woman, she’s loaded which, as mentioend above, meets the Muff’s ‘on paper’ criteria.
Please tell the Muffti that what he is doing is ok. Preferably in vapid clichÃ© form. Muffti doesn’t like to think deeply and seeing a familiar empty phrase relieves him of that burden.
Thanks in advance,
(now that’s satire!)
Everybody knows that only Muffti can charm women with his personality.
Thanks Froylein. Muffti is less confident. That’s why he tries to look good ‘on paper’ and hopes that Danielle will convince the babes to stay with him.
Would I increase Muffti’s chances of getting meaningfully laid if I wired a few solid Euros?
It may meaningfully increase the chances of getting laid but it wouldn’t increase the chances of getting meaningfully laid.
Muffti should never underestimate the value and “depth” money can add to sexual intercourse.
Man then I have been having very, very shallow sexual intercourse indeed!
I’m disappointed in you, Muffti.
You’re a philosopher, right?
Getting laid is, in and of itself, meaningful. I would expect you, of all people, to know this.
As a friend of mine once said: When it comes to canoodling, Quantity IS Quality.
Or, as Woody Allen said, there is no such thing as a bad orgasm. Some orgasms may be better than others, but it is impossible to have a bad one.
CK, I’d love to comment on that one, but modesty forbids.
Ephraim, have you met Muffti yet?
TouchÃ© E! Muffti would never match wits w master woody.
Nope. He’s a bit too far North for us to make an easy connection.
Make it happen! Muffti is great fun.
Make what happen?
Boy am I glad I didn’t join in this thread…
Ephraim and Muffti are supposed to meet as Muffti could need some role model.
Make what happen?
Boy am I glad I didnâ€™t join in this threadâ€¦
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