The cashews were delicious.

Also, the book served its purpose. Here are Kaplan’s main 3 points:

1. “The prophets predicted a world of peace and love after the Messiah’s coming, and this certainly does not exist today. Furthermore, any talk of the Messiah as being the ‘son of Gd’ is totally unacceptable. In no place to the prophets say he will be anything more than a remarkable teacher.”

2. “Although tht torah does speak of Adam’s sin, it teaches us that man can rise above it…In no place does Judaism teach that one can me saved from damnation by mere belief. Any true belief in Gd must lead a person to also follow His commandments.”

3. “It is impossible to imagine that Gd would ever reject the Jewish people. In many places, the Bible clearly states that His covenant with them will be forever. In many places the Boblw says that the Torah was given forever. It is therefore impossible to say that it has been replaced by a new law or testament.”

And anyway, the Jewish Moshiach is to be a human being – a great leader and teacher, not a god born by supernatural means. He was to be a king of the Jews, not a wandering misfit preacher.

Too, the Jerusalem Talmud clearly states, “If a man claims to be Gd, he is a liar!”

And we all know the story of the yeshiva boy who gets up in the heder ohel and proclaims to his fellow students, “I am the Moshiach!” – to which the room goes up in a clamor until another boy approaches the first and proclaims, “You can’t be the Moshiach!”
The first one, confused, squeaks, “Why not?” — and the second one replies, “Because I am the Moshiach!”

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  • Ha Ha Ha Ha, No I”M THE MESIAH!!!!!

    Right, glad we’ve cleared that up.

    Do you know that Jesus, Y’shu ben Yoseph, the wandering misfit preacher of Nazereth, never claimed to be God and refused, even when goaded under torture, to act like a superman,

    Even though the stories say that at happier times he would spontainiously act like a superman and perform seemingly unecessary miracles (for instance simply to make a wedding go happier-) ie the water to wine miracle- his first I beleve.

    He was only ever crowned King of the Jews with a crown of thorns while he was tortured to death seemingly with the aproval of most of those who were his kindred.

    He only dedscribed himself as “the son of man” and all that New testament stuff, the creation of the God-man or “Christ” is more a legacy of a legal bigot called Saul/Paul who never actually met the lowly Rabbi Y’shua.

    Who would the real Messiah actually look like. because Its hard to imagine such a paradox and most of us Jew or Christian alike seem to be lacking in real imagination at the moment. Those who seem to regect Jesus or accept him always seem to be in reality are not that unlike ‘the great apostle’ in their poverty of insight.

    I recon if you do expect a steriotype warrior king and what you’ve had is a man on a donkey you probably won’t be able to even concider it as valid unless you change it in to something supernatural and different in order to make it into a banner to hide behind, or regect.

    And yet inteligence can always see the hidden and mysterious….. and knows that the obvious, clear and predictable is never the thing itself.

    So without having a certainty one way or the other In reality there’s propbably more to support the possibility of a Misfit Mesiah from Palestine than the sterio-type you are suggesting/expecting.

    Think About It…………………………..

  • Sorry, maybe I’ll respond better in a sec, but all I can think of is the moment in “Bring it On” (the movie) when Sparky Pilastri (sp?) says to Eliza Dushku’s character (“Missy”) “I understand that you have underwear up your ass right now, but it beats the hell out of a shattered skull,” and then flicks Missy’s forehead to the sound of a little *ping* and finishes with “THINK ABOUT IT!”

    (…if you got that reference, kudos)

    Now for the serious bit.

    The way I see it, if there’s a messiah, then hopefully I’d recognize his/her/their/its presence and his/her/their/its “coming,” (if you will). As of now, I ain’t feelin’ it. So I continue to wait.

    That being said, others may very well think/know that they have “found the path,” (whatever that is) and Jesus is the dude leading.

    I don’t care if you believe in Jesus, The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Muhammed… Hell, I don’t care if you believe Randy Pan the Goat Boy (another 10 points for that reference) is here to save our souls. Whatever gets you through the day, whatever helps you to be a better person.


  • Ha! Goatboy!

    Anyhow, what I’ve yet to understand is why the beginning of the Gospel of Matthew begins with painstakingly tracing David’s descendants to Joseph, (to coincide with the Jewish Messiah coming from the line of David) and then goes on to say that Jesus is the son of Mary and the Holy Ghost. This means that Jesus, in fact is not a descendant of David and wouldn’t qualify as the Jewish Messiah.

    What gives?

  • Something about heavenly father vs. earthly father. I asked a Chrstian once. A REAL Christian.

  • The Christian Bible gives two different “earthly lineages” for JC. One directly through Joseph, the other through Joseph via Mary. Of course, neither are valid, both because they trace through cursed lines and because biologically father only determines lineage halachicly. OOPS!

    As for the prophecy of HaMoshiach riding into Jerusalem on an ass. The complete prophecy states that IF there is a war and HaMoshiach is victorious he will ride into Jerusalem as an act of humility. Otherwise, there would at least be thousands of HaMoshiachs concidering that is the only “prophecy” JC met. 😉

  • If you like this thread, I encourage you to comment at This blogger needs some help. He is a hardcore “Messianic” Jew. I’ve been trying to get through to him, but I can’t tell if he was raised Jewish, or is just a Christian feeling out Jewish traditions.

  • He says he “traveled the path to Judaism” so I guess that means he’s Christian.

    Another comment: the Jews for Jesus lately have a new trick. They outright deny any affiliation with Jews for Jesus/Christians and will even insult them. “No we’re messianic jews” It’s quite deceptive. A rose by any other name…

  • Muffti noticed that the posted reasons aren’t very convincing. THey all seem to focus on places where the OT is silent rather than places where the Torah contradicts Jesus’s claims. i.e. In no place does Judaism teach that one can be saved from damnation by mere belief. Fair enough (Muffti guesses – but experts are solicited to correct) but that doesn’t contradict anything directly; it just tells us what the torah was silent on.

    Futhermore, the reasons seem to implicitly contradict eachother: in #1 it says In no place do (sic) the prophets say he will be anhything more than a remarkable teacher.” However, down the page you right that He [moshiach] was to be a king of the jews, not a wandering misfit preacher.

  • Muffti was not swayed by the missionaries (though some of them had kinda cool crosses – especially the ones with the digital signs). I just reckon there are better arguments to marshall against the missionaries.

  • Michael, I think Muffti is pissed at ck for sending votes to another blog.

    Oh wait, I’m thinking of me.