I remarked to a friend the other day how surreal it was that just 2 hours away thousands of people’s lives are being turned upside down and this incredible human drama is happening, grief and weeping and heartache, while we in Jerusalem go to work, get grocery’s and make plans for Saturday night.
How very Israeli we have become. Even so, I just spent the last hour looking through these photos, and allowed myself to cry.
“you shall not hearden your heart” (Dvarim. 15:7)
A soldier comforts a settler
A girl prays as soldiers surround the synagogue in Neve Dekalim
Praying for the last time inside the Neve Dekalim synagogue
Pure anguish
Mother and child from Shirat HaYam
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen sadder faces
A soldier, overcome by emotion, collapses.
Soldiers weeping
I actually agree with Mobius. “If you can view these pictures without shedding so much as a tear, you’re simply inhumane.”
- Shabbat in the Uttermost West - 2/25/2007
- The chosen books of the chosen people - 2/18/2007
- Why Not Al? - 2/15/2007
These pictures really break my heart. Thanks for posting them.
The “good” news? I’m not inhumane.
I made the mistake of looking at them while at work…now I have to get some visine
There are no words. I don’t watch much tv but have these images been on the News constantly like they should be? I hope the world is seeing what Jews are doing to themselves for the sake of “the peace process” I hope someone makes a traveling photography exhibit of those photos to teach the world what the Jews went through in 2005.
There are no words. I don’t watch much tv but have these images been on the News constantly like they should be? I hope the world is seeing what Jews are doing to themselves for the sake of “the peace process” I hope someone makes a traveling photography exhibit of those photos to teach the world what the Jews went through in 2005.
The soldiers are comforting themselves.
The obeyed immoral orders and most will live the rest of their lives with this burden of guilt. Some will be happy to have taken part.
The soldiers took the brunt of the former residents’ anger and frustration and showed remarkable compassion, empathy and sensitivity. The images of soldiers and police comforting those they had formerly protected in a land where they were targets of terror, the photos of soldiers praying alongside their brothers, and the accountss of them being yelled at, harassed and attacked are the most profound. I hope that those are the enduring images of this whole sordid affair, and not the images of embarassing behavior on the part of those who chose to play the game out to it’s inevitable end with an alarming lack of grace and respect for themselves, their country and those who showed them support and compassion.
Well said Judi. But am I the only sicko that thinks they are the sexiest men alive?
It just kills me. And then when i read Michael’s post and these Palestinian children are laughing at these very same images…kills me.
I was listening to a guy named Mason Jennings as I looked at these pictures and he said: “and if this darkness came from light, than light can come from darkness i guess.” I hope he is right.
had the exact same experience this morning; same thoughts, same photos, same effect.
..heartbreaking. how long can the suffering go on?
I feel more sorry for the Soldiers then the Gaza
Residents. The fate of the Soldiers is not clear.
There are a lot more Police and Soldiers then there were before. Jewish Gaza folk know they can’t go back to that Province of Eretz Yisroel so soon, so it seems. Not so with the soldiers:
Who Knows when they can go home or deployed
again to deal with the ongoing hostilities that most think are just beginining? I get the impression the Gaza residents are much better prepared for the future then just about anybody else.
They are tough, smart and spiritually bright and have a good chance that this experience will toughen them up even more….
I hope I can say the same thing for the other victims of this historical tragedy….
All Jewish people of this world are equal opportunity victims of this. We may not feel this right now, but good chance we will.
Like the soldiers, regardless of political view, Jews of Ashqelon, Sederot and other towns within ever increasing range of Egyptian supplied weapons.
I have reason to think the easy part of this round of events has past, as hard they were to see…
It’s odd. I looked at mobius’ link (the Mideast pictures) and honestly, I saw nothing to cry about. I felt aliented from the settlers’ grief. What makes me feel compassion is not the settlers, but the soldiers. How can my heart be hardened whilst theirs are pained? For that I feel sad.
Whew, at least I am not the only one.
I felt the settlers were theatric and manipulative, doing everything they could to “push the buttons.”
And they seem to have succeeded brilliantly.
The soldiers however were wonderful.
Thank you for posting the pictures…I’m crying again.
Very powerful pictures.
Unfortunately, and I hate to be the negative one…the world isn’t seeing these photos. Of the three major outlets of media in the US, only one actually covered the pull out in depth. The others mentioned it as a side note. My friend in England said the news hardly mentioned it.
Get use to these photos…with a world like this there will be plenty more.
Heart breaking on both sides… Being an American soldier myself I empathize with these men and women doing their job, following orders, hurting their brothers and sisters. They attempt to do their jobs with compassion and care yet the mission as always the “mission” comes first. Peace be with them and the settlers and the world bare witness to their great sacrifice.
theatric and manipulative
The same way the army has been rehearsing the expulsion over the past three months, the settlers have also been practicing at workshops on how to ‘react’ dramatically for the cameras.
As if, duh.
I really am sorry if people don’t emphathize with the 9000 Jews getting thrown out of their homes and the vast majority with no where to go. I suppose that if this would have happened about fifteen years ago when I was still living in Canada and non-religious, I might be somewhat apathetic and alienated by ‘settlers’ plight. I can tell you that the settlers are not looking for your sympathy. At this point, they are living a hell on earth. The cameras do not capture this.
Anyway, I might have a much better perspective in a couple of days of how they are feeling. If the evil expulsion goes on (hope not), they will be bringing a few dozen families to my town.
=*(
I just want to drop these two emails from a good friend of mine, I won’t use his name as I’m not sure he’d want it out there, but from what I gather his story could be shared by many many people…
Shalom!
I don’t think I will ever forget the date I was on last night. I’ve never cried so much on a date in my life! I tried writing this last night, but I fell asleep with the computer on me (don’t worry – laptop:-), on my couch, at 4am.
This week has been one of the hardest Israel has ever had. It certainly was my toughest week since making aliyah. Watching and listening to the things that were being said and the cries of anguish from people being expelled from their homes with their families. I have much to say, but I don’t even have the strength or will to write it all right now. So I will tell you about last night and then call it a day.
I was supposed to go out with this girl for the first time. On the way to meeting her, I got off at the Central Bus Station because they were having a protest/welcoming at the entrance to Yerushalayim. Welcoming? Yes. One of the communities that was evacuated was Netzer Chazani. The community reached a deal that would allow them to board buses and go directly from there to the Kotel. Hundreds of people were standing there to welcome them to Yerushalayim and to know how much we love them. After the trauma that they have been through, and the abandonment they felt, it was important to show that we were here for them. I couldn’t stay long because I had this date, but by the time I got to our meeting place I didn’t have the stomach for a date. When she arrived I told her this and told her I was debating whether to go back to the entrance of the city, go to the Kotel to pour my heart out and greet them there, or maybe even go to some of the many hotels where people from other communities are now housed temporarily. I suggested we have a “half-date” and walk to the Kotel together and then we’ll see. We did that. I am so thankful that I had someone to talk to last night.
The scene in the Old City was unreal. The “square” (a big square where gatherings are sometimes held) was filled with hundreds of people and tons of food and drink and people holding signs saying “We are with you” or “We love you”, etc…Down at the Kotel the scene was similar. There was plenty of disorganization. Nobody knew when they were coming and where they would go first. Yeshivat HaKotel had arranged a whole meal for them and also sleeping arrangements for the night. At first, they were supposed to arrive by 8, then by 10, then by 12-1. And yet, at approx. 1am when the first people finally arrived, hundreds of people were still there, singing and cheering. I am about to start crying again as I recall the scene of dancing buses up towards the Kotel. And then standing as families, with their shirts torn in mourning, came off those buses. There weren’t too many dry eyes. I was helping one person with his bags and he said he couldn’t believe so many people were there at 1am. I heard another 2 people talking, and one young guy was saying to another – “more and more” in reference to the outpouring of support. I hugged many people – sometimes that’s all someone needs, and all you can give. My words are insufficient to express what I saw.
And on one of the last buses was a Sefer Torah from the shul in Netzer Chazani. When they took it off the bus we danced and danced it to the Kotel where the dancing continued. They davened ma’ariv and then continued dancing it to Yeshivat HaKotel, its temporary home. How we could dance with a Torah is the secret of our survival. At 3am when I finally was leaving, I heard a few people from different Gaza communities talking and one said to the other as he was leaving – “B’Ezrat Hashem natzliach”/Please G-d we will succeed”! How he could say that in his present condition is beyond me and I wish upon myself half of that faith.
I could tell you some heart-wrenching stories of things I heard people saying. But I won’t. I will tell you about the strength of the Jewish people. I will tell you that more than ever we need this Shabbat, the Shabbat after Tisha B’Av, which is called Shabbat Nachamu, Shabbat of Comfort. I will tell you about Am Yisrael and their outpouring of help. Of people going around to the hotels to see what people need. To people offering their houses, toys, books, food, etc…
Shalom!
I just had to write another quick note. This morning after writing the email I went to a hotel near me where many of the settlers of Neve Dekalim are being housed in the meantime, to see if I could help with anything. I walked in and I saw tons of people who were there to help. There was a room full of stuff that people just kept bringing – diapers, food, medecine, clothes…anything and everything. Many of the residents of Neve Dekalim left with a large backpack at most. There were people there to babysit and help with the kids, there were people helping others to settle in, etc…It was an unbelievable site.
Just as I got there a family arrived and I helped them with their bags to their hotel rooms. I asked them if they needed anything as I was on my way to the shuk. They couldn’t think of anything off hand – they needed time to settle.
I spoke to the people in charge and one thing they said they might need was chumashim for Shabbat. I called my Rabbi and asked if I could lend them our chumashim from Gruss. He said – without a doubt.
I went to the shuk and bought some garinim and other stuff like that and a friend came with his car and we brought the chumashim to the hotel. When I entered for the second time today, the place was ten times as full. What had started basically in one room, now filled the lobby. There was a huge pile of diapers as I walked in. There was a whole section of brand new children’s books and games in another corner. In another side there were piles of clothing so they would have clothes for Shabbat! And people just kept pouring in. There was a whole group of people outside arranging flowers with little notes of support for each family. It was simply an overwhelming site. I found the family that I had helped move in. The wife and 2 of her kids. And I sat down and I pulled out some garinim, some Marzipan rugelach, some balloons for her kids…she said to me, she never thought it would be like this. She too, was overwhelmed by the outpouring of chesed.
Our Rabbis teach us that once the Beit Hamikdash was destroyed, all of the gates of tefillah are closed. Except one. The gate of tears. In the past week, and especially in the past couple of days, I have cried at least a small river. And I know that oceans of tears have been shed. If that gate is still open, and these tears are going through that gate, I can only imagine that Moshiach is around the corner.
Today’s tears were mixed with tears of joy to be part of such an unbelievable nation.
MI K’AMCHA YISRAEL.
WHO IS LIKE YOUR NATION ISRAEL!
Mi K’Amcha Yisrael is right, if nothing else, we’ve learned something first hand about the charicter of our people, regardless of what side you fall on. The fact that no death has befallen either side is a true testament to our people. Right or Wrong, Blue or Orange, as jews we have to remember to love each other above all else, and this is what I think a lot of those pictures show.
A good friend of mine told be about the Referees in Neve Dekalim. The Rabayim there apparently wore special bright colored vests with the word Rav on it and acted as referees in the protests. The people there would protest until the point when the Rav would say, enough, you’ve lost, any more and people will get hurt. Then the protester would give in and walk out arm in arm with the Chayal (soldier) he was just fighting against and board the busses, emotionally deffeated, but without further phisical resistance. It’s a clear enough statment to me, whatever the politics, whatever the trauma, we’re a nation, a people, a family. Mitzvat Aseh, Shel V’Ahavta Larayacha Kamocha – Achdut! That needs to be the cry of all of Am Yisrael.
May the pain that we feel as a people now be the birthing pain to a new era of peace and prosperity for all of us, and may all our wounds be healed and our people united.
Amen.
Thank you Purim Hero.
Wow Purim Hero,
That story makes me want to go back to
Yerushalyim like now…. right now. I actually feel envious of you being there and me being on the other side of the Planet just being a spectator. I was feeling pretty down on the government of Israel, pushing around the best Citizens and Patriots of Israel like what just happened; like what a downer…
Nachamu, Nachamu!
I wish I was there also… those stories were from a close friend of mine as I mentioned. I wish I could take credit, but I can only be the storyteller. But the emotions I think we all share.
Judi I wonder how you would have acted in their (the settlers) situation.
In the Jpost this weekend they also had stories of soldiers giving a family an hour of grace so their son could finish watching his Disney movie and of a protest that took an hour break so the teenagers could eat lunch. Where else, right?
Once again,
bravo for the humanity of the soldiers who came to rip the families out of their homes.
What a great nation! When the ‘weed-pickers’ are able to cry with the weeds (heard on Amry Radio – Rafi Reshef this morning).
Keep your sympathies for the medium and long term after this is over. How many people civilians, soldiers, settlers will be desensitized to plight? How many of us will feel like the dirt of the earth when the Arabs stroll into the settlements and claim victory while our ‘brave’ leaders will keep proclaiming that the ‘terror’ had nothing to do with us leaving?
It’s already more than three days since the expulsion started, and the immensity of the refugee situation is being minimilized. Many of the families have been put up in hotels and the hotels are kicking them out since reservations need to be kept. People have no idea where they are going until their new homes are built in the next three years, if at all.
The government had a chance to take a break today. Many complained that they should first deal with the current refugees before making more, but they gave the final word to kick all the settlers into the streets.
Evil. I have no other word.
Speaking as an englishman, i’d like to say that, contrary to one of the comments above, there has been a lot of coverage on English news, especially the BBC. Even more surprising, the BBC have taken a highly sympathetic view regarding the settlers, and hardly any of the more extreme reactions (the stabbing etc.) have been mentioned. There have also been specials on the disengagement, in which the BBC talked to various settler families, all of whom were shown as decent, normal people who felt that their expulsion would put more innocent lives in danger.
Whatever problems there are with BBC bias, they should be proud of their coverage of this particular issue.
i would gladly take in one of those families. if only i could… oy, breaks my f*cking heart over and over… turns me to anger. this won’t kill the plight, josh, it will only push moderates like myself into zealotry.
there are 3 elements of love, Ahavah, and my love for palestine is becoming the worst aspect: Kinah.
the man, as someone who has lost her home within the past year or so and who was forced to relocate with her family due to circumstances beyond our control, I can tell you that I succeeded in acting with grace and dignity. The government did not offer me any money to resettle elsewhere, Josh did not show up with his friends and stage a protest, and there were no news photographers capturing every tear we that slipped from behind our sunglasses. We did what we had to do and just moved on. Sometimes the lease really is up and you have to accept the circumstances, whether or not you feel they are right ar just. Sometimes life just plain ‘ol sucks. Thanks for asking.
Hey people what’s wrong with you? Didn’t you know that this expulsion would happen? Didn’t you know it 10 or 20 years ago?
Don’t you finally understand that Meir Kahane tried to explain- and how Yesha yelled at him and helped to ban him?!
So long as the murderous arabs who claim to own all of Israel are in our land there will be no peace.
This is the error of both Israel and the settler movement and all of the Yesha leadership. They had said ‘if they bomb us we will make another settlement’ the JNF said ‘if they burn down a forest we will plant more trees’!! What utter nonesense! Can’t people think straight!?
You can’t build and have the destroyer there too!
I apologize Josh to you and others like you but
-WE TOLD YOU SO.
I’m sorry if its hard for all the people here to accept that.
Gaza is only the beginning.
I just saw this article written by Barry Chamish.
He is 100% right. Maybe Josh and the other’s who have been in denial for the last 30 years will finally read and understand…(I don’t really expect that to happen because they are a delusional lot.)
http://www.barrychamish.com/html/kapos.html
This is the article: CLICK HERE
The problem is that it takes an extremist view on the issue without using any rational thought. Is the Gaza pull out wrong? I happen to split on the issue, but see the immediate effects of it as wrong and the principle on it wrong, however I can see how it will be used for good on the Israeli cause (who are the Palestinians going to blame now when they screw up and fail to get rid of terrorists in their nation?). To compare it to Nazi explusion is not only wrong and historically inaccurate, it’s unethical. Kicking people out of their homes for no reason other than they are Jewish is wrong. Kicking people out of their homes because they are on a land that the government is willingly giving up to other people is wrong…compensating them almost $300,000 in some cases is not wrong….however these two things do not make it the equivalent to Nazism. Nazis didn’t hug the Jews whilst removing them from their homes. Nazis didn’t put the Jews in hotels as they waited to find houses. Nazis people and Germans didn’t embrace the Jews en masse when tragedy occured. The differences are too many for us to even consider Gaza the equivalent to Nazism. The ease some people have to equate it to such a horrible thing is utterly tragic.
Joel I disagree,
Here the comparison is to the yesha leaders who promised and told the people that they would not be kicked out. They told them not to violently protest – all the while claiming that the bad will not happen.
That is exactly what the Jewish Kapos did. They falsely told people to listen to the Germans and that if they did do all will be well. They lured people into passivity.
Thats the point here. The leaders lured people into false hopes and made them passive – exactly what the corrupt government told them to do. In fear they listened to the corrupt undemocratic govenment.
Nobody is saying that every aspect is equal but the actions of the Yesha leaders is very reminiscent of the Jewish leadership 60 years ago.
The problem is you have two, just two, similarities, and even the the comparisson you try to draw ignores the history of the event. The Kapos tried to tell the Jews to comply so that the Jews would be put on trains and deported to camps. Israel is trying to tell the settlers to remain calm so that the already anti-Israel/anti-Jew world doesn’t go, “Look, see, they’re inhernetly violent people.” There is a major difference between the two, and wearing stars of David or using the Nazi salute in these circumstances is simply wrong and the mark of an unintelligent person.
So based on your logic a person should not defend thmselved and their property so that the ‘world’ doesn’t think they are violent. I see and who brought in the cameras – the government let the reporters in. So the government has an eady way to rob people. Bring in cameras and they people will let themselves be robbed so as not to portray a bad image.
Joel such thinking is sick. You defend yourself against the wicked – you don’t worry what others will say. Nobody has to be robbed and a sucker.
The only difference is how severe the evil is.
The kapos of 60 years ago figured that if people listen then maybe somepeople will be saved even though many will be killed. It was in fear that they sold them out. So they sent many to die.
The kapos now convinced them not to fight but to lose their homes.
The severity of the results of the betrayal and the selling down the river is the difference but the concept is the same.
If we don’t point this out it will happen again. People have to learn not to listen to the hapless leaders.
I would hardly say that paying $300,000 to each evicted family is “betrayl” or worthy of being called a Nazi over.
Is it right to kick out thousands of people and encourage them not to fight it because you caved into political pressure? Absolutely, it’s not. Is it right to call your government a Nazi government or compare it to Nazis when many in that government went through the Holocaust or have parents that did? Absolutely, it’s not. Are you suggesting they forgot?
The pull out is not right but it is a necessary step in some sort of a peace process. Will it directly lead to peace? No, it won’t. But it will finally stop the world from bitching about how Israel is occupying these lands and oppressing the Palestinians. The Palestinians can now prove themselves and will fail. It will be the biggest “I told you so” in modern history, allowing Israel to go back into these lands after the terrorist attacks do not stop and finally settle them again. Kicking people off their land is wrong and a tragedy, but if it finally leads to the silencing of the UN (read: Useless Nations) and other critics of Israel then by all means, do it. I don’t know if you are paying attention, but Israel “occupying” these lands has led to increased anti-semetism in Europe and is causing it to increase in America. If pissing a few thousands settlers off and giving them a fat compensation check will get the world off Israel’s back…though immoral and wrong….it needs to be done.
I’d just like to point out that $300,000 is not actaully being given to each family. That’s the upper figure, most are getting closer to $50,000. Not everyone is even getting. It varies by family size, need, establishment, and value of what’s being left behind. In virtually zero cases is it 100% of the value of possessions and property left behind. It wasn’t ment to be. The goal of the government and of the private doners who are supposed to provide the cash was 50%, but even that is unrealistic, as the amount of capital that needs to be abtained is just too large a figure to realisticly aquire. The Government has tried to compensate, but the compensation hasn’t been generous.
To put into context that more of us are familier with. The US Constitution does have an allowance of the Government to seize property and do as it wishes with it, but only when in the context of Overiding State Interest. Even in this case, fair market value has to be given upon seizier, otherwise it’s illegal.
The expenditures in Gaza are simply too massive to be realisicly able to provide fair market value for everyone who was removed from their homes. It can only be our hope that the outcome of this whole ordeal will actually lead to something productive, such as peace, that would make up for the great loss… Unfortunatly, I think that too is unrealistic. But I’m certain that on the off chance lasting real peace (or even better Shalom – as there is a difference between peace and shalom that gets lost in translation) actually happens, those who lost there homes will retroactivly be very happy to have been the ones to make the sacrifise.
I also agree that Nazi comparisons are uncalled for. It’s one thing to say that things are unjust, and even wrong/evil/ect… but when we through around comparisons to the Holocost too frequently and without true merit, we lesson the impact of the term, and the memory.
While out of my love for Am Yisrael I’m greatly hurt by the disengagment, and wear orange until the end, my love for Eretz Yisrael dictates that I continue to support the country, continue to care for it’s army, and pray that a possitive political outcome takes place.
Above all though, as I’ve said before, the one thing that this whole ordeal really solidifies for me is the need of Achdut b’klal yisrael. Mi K’Amcha Yisrael is my responce to how the many people on both sides handled a difficult, controvertial, emotional issue. As hard as it’s been, it could easily have been much worse, and in that I find hope for the Jewish people as a whole, and through the Jewish people there is hope for the world at large.
Finally, my love for Torat Yisrael gives me the hope that I need to go on, knowing that there will be a better future.
(The big three loves… maybe Moshava over the past 5 summers has really started to rub the b’nei akiva stuff off on me.)
Well put Purim Hero
You are saying things better then I could. I am not at the level at this point to see the good in the apparent bad. I have heard of stories of Tsadakim who could.
Joel you once again ignored my point and answered a different question.
My point is the Kapo-like leadership of Yesha who deluded the people into thinking that if they march in circles in Kfar Maimon without confronting the soldiers everything ‘would be OK.’ All this sweet-talk they did at the behest of the government who told them not to resist too much.
I notice that that was my comment 35’s main point and in your response in comment 36 you didn’t mention it at all.
Maybe in a debating team addressing a different point and ignoring the main point would sway the public but I’m not going to let you get away with that.
Would you rather the “Kapo-like” leaders in Yesha told them to use violence in their resistance? If so you are Pashut crazy, and you don’t understand the conundrum the Gaza residents were in, their world view, or anything else about them.
For 35 years, more, the residents of Gaza have been the frontline zionests. They’ve put their neck on the line for Israel. That’s why this hurts so badly, why it seems like a stab in the back from your brother. (Et tu Brutis) These people have more of a connection to Am Yirael and Eretz Yisrael, and dream of a end of violence more then anyone else. When the disengagment started they were dumbfounded, there was anger, feelings of betrayal, and pure numbness in the hearts of those who lived there, but as angry as they were, a violent responce was never in their vocabular, leadership or not, virtually non of those individuals could ever will themselves to hurt another of their brothers, virtually non could ever will themselves to turn on the army that protects their beloved country and has protected them for so many years. All there was for them to do was to pray, to cry, and to hope. To streach out the events for as long as possible awaiting some form of governmental or divine intervention. The “kapo-like” leaders didn’t condition their people not to fight back, they represented their people and expressed the reality. “We feel wronged. We feel Pain. We’re Going to Resist, and Pray for it not to take place. But we aren’t going to hurt our brothers, or our Nation any more then it’s already being hurt. It’s the wrong decision, but after a certain point, it’ll have to be accepted, because the alternative of Violence is not an option.” The role of these leaders was not just to give Chizuk to their commmunitees, it was more important. Many thousands flocked to Gaza to show support and participate in the resistance. It is to those non-residents, who were less numb, and more angry, that the Gaza Leaders spoke to. To them it was important to remind them not to use violence, important to try to convey to them the guidlines of the situation, the will of the residents, and the mentality of the people. You’ll notice very minimal violence took place, B”H, and what did was small scale individual people, and a lot of that was turned inwards. (The Acid story, the only story of group violence was debunked, proven not true, and retracted, Western media sure likes jumping to conclutions based on shaky unidentified -read Palistinian – eye witnesses.)
So, in the end, was it painful? Yes Was it Difficult? Yes Are the Leaders in Gaza “Kapo-like” A resounding NO. If anything they were the opposite, willing their own people to resist far more then they would have on their own. Most would have numbly been carried off, unable to resist, or even live a daily life. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the leaders and the people of Gaza, they were the cream of the crop, I only hope we havn’t ruined them.
Purim hero I agree with you on the actual residents of Gaza. They were in no situation to fight. They were few and they had children other should have fought for them.
I am talking about the 50,000 who marched to kfar maimon and the 250,000 who went to the Kotel.
They could have stopped it but they were told not to by the hapless leaders.
But understand the WHOLE picture. If this was the only thing I would be quiet. But it is the same leaders who denounced rabbi kahane and who even now are too frightened to say to throw the arabs out. They are always looking for ‘public opinion’ and they are concerned lest they look too ‘radical’ they therefore in fear don’t speak the truth and this is the culmination of their foolish policies. That is why I speak out- because this is another episode of a larger picture…
listen Purim hero there are people now who haven’t done anything aside for speak their mind who are in prison under administrative detention.
The government fears them because they don’t cave in- does the government fear the Yesha leaders?! No because the Yesha leaders are full of fear of the govenment.
Joe, what you’re advocating is nothing less than civil war. This is why peace was pushed by these “Kapo” leaders. You are advocating almost 300,000 uprising against the government decree in a violent manner. That is civil war. That is calling for rebellion. That is not the answer in this. Good will come of it, it will just be after bad comes. Are you asserting that G-D has somehow abandoned us? Are you asserting that G-D brought us here merely to die? We are the protection of Hashem.
My friend I would never blame G-d for what we do to ourselves.
In every war He saved us. What do we do in return?
1. give the land He gave us to an enemy
2. Let a mosque stand on His holy site
3. violate the sabbath and bring pork into israel
4. drive jews out of their land
Do I question Him?! Of course not. Do I expect him to save us from ourselves? I can’t expect that. Why should He when we throw what he gave us back at Him. I fear for us Joel very much.
G-d helps only those who help themselves.
Thats why I speak out because its our turn our turn to do what is right. Our turn to show that we will follow Him to do what is right – to fear Him and not others- and then hopefully hopefully He will overlook all these terrible things that we are doing so that we do not bring another Holocaust upon ourselves.
Yeah, it seems easy to talk big from the outside.
Especially blaming the Yesha Council? Who needs
that now? I can think of all kinds of parties to blame.
Why not blame Hashem Yisbarach for obviously
arranging this. After all, Gam Zu Latovah right? I try not to doubt that.
I doubt the good of this is percieved or concieved by the small minds of the Government in power of the Military at the moment that came up with this expulsion. Nothing said by the proponents of the dis-engagement ever impressed me.
Who now thinks the real time security of the region is improved?
Who really thinks that the PA could handle anything in a stable way that makes life safe for anybody?
Is throwing money at them to further thier real
terrorist instincts really going to help?
I have a lot of questions and not to many answers.
I would appreciate a more here and now attitude in dealing with the more real problems that were not there just a few weeks ago. I feel pontificating from the sidelines useless. Another problem: last week I felt a need to doven harder, more tsadaka and improve my learning sedar. Now that I feel the forces of good have lost; That improvement is much harder now.
One thing I don’t doubt is that the Rabbis in
the Yesha Council and the guys with the “RAV”
jackets are the “good guys.” I don’t see how in the aftermath of the loss of a viable Jewish Province to lay blame in that direction is needed.
How much energy to we have to start in with the blame game?
Few if any there seemed to “wimp out” when it came to challenging this expulsion. Brave souls tried to prevent what is apparently bad from happening. Not just men but Women and children. To those of those who think that the Jewish Residents of Gaza can be just shlepped aside and scattered to prevent more fuss are mistaken. That may be the wish of the small minded framers of the expulsion or the proponents of the tragedy.
We need to spend our energies cleaning up the
mess…. The mess was made from a lot of good
things; like good Jewish cities and productive and prosperous commerce and agriculture.
I would like to see good answers as to what to do
with all that potential that was just demolished. So far not so much solutions have been in effect. Just the mission: Get the Jews out…. Thats all that has been assuredly done. Yeah, the Army succeeded in that mission. The Army hasn’t said much coherent things about the aftermath. I did see impressive Ahavat Yisroel for the imediate interaction with the Army and the Residents durring much of the forcefull removal of people. Do we expect this relationship to continue? I hope so, but I am not certain. I am not to sure that was part of the “mission.”
Netsach if we don’t point to our mistakes we will never solve them.
Ther real issue is all of these ‘good guys’ (as you call them) yelling and condemning those who saw this coming. They were false prophets of hope. They helped ban kahane. Now we must clearly place blame on them and say WE TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
Its time for a change. A change for all of Israel becasue if there is no change Netsach I guarantee you worse things are coming.
Blame hashem ?! I would never be so foolish when we do it to ouselves. Of course he won’t help us.
Now for a Dvar Torah:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0433.htm
“55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then shall those that ye let remain of them be as thorns in your eyes, and as pricks in your sides, and they shall harass you in the land wherein ye dwell. 56 And it shall come to pass, that as I thought to do unto them, so will I do unto you.”
ie- if after I give you the land you refuse move the enemy out…troubles will come upon you and more troubles until finally when you still refuse to do what I say I will do to you what I did not want to do to you- what I would have done to your enemies.
Netsach there is nothing to question G-d about. If you care about Israel and the Jewish people youb would join me.
Joe Schmo, just to clarify that excerpt the you quoted. Our requirment to drive out the nations are specific nations that practise Avodah Zarah. Their complete distruction was to prevent Jews from Falling to Idol Worship that would lead to G-d’s turning aside from our ancestors. In that task we failed. However, the Arabs are different. They are not Idol Worshipers, but believe in one G-d and have a special G-d given birthright through Yishmael. We don’t have to destroy them, or expel them, we have to be Ohr LaGoyim and show them the proper path by setting a good dugmah (example) I agree that it would be much easier to destroy them in solving our problem, but they are a protected people, and that is not our job, our mission is much more difficult and far more important in relation to the Arabs. I just hope we are up to the challenge. I can understand where your feeling come from, they are valid and real, but we can’t break down and succum to them. Even Kahane didn’t want us to wipe out all Arabs, he merely wanted us to exert ourselves to the point where they would understand that we aren’t going to take their abuse sitting down, and then he felt there would be peace, becuase they would have no choice but to accept our superiority.
The answer for Am Yisrael is not to become like the animals around us, but to make the animals around us become more human.
But purim hero where did I say to kill them? I just said to move them out.
A G-d given birthright to what?
In order for others to stay in addition to keeping the seven commandments they would have to accept that Israel is ours.
So I don’t see where we disagree.
We disagree about the approach of the Yesha leaders, who I see as making a Kiddush Hashem and you see as Nazi Kapos. Their birthright is that they should be an eternal great nation, just like Esav. Read Tanach. Israel isn’t theirs, but their right to exist is protected.
Yo Bro Joe Schmo,
I appreciate the invite. If it means knocking the
Rabinim for the Kehilla of the Jews of Yesha, I am not in on that. I don’t see the reason. I have been impressed with many of the leaders of Yesha and support thier activity and percieve them as true Israeli Patriots. I was in Chevron eir Hakodesh a few times over the years. I was a Shabat guest at the Hesdar Yeshiva at Beit Ramano and Rabbi Levenger. I love those guys and in a lot of ways wish I was there…. I was in Chevron in summer 2003 this time of year and loved it there. I saw the difference in the attitude of the Army since the late eighties. I don’t know how things have changed since 2003, but what a difference since 89′ when I spent some time there. I see a need to get on the
good side of the Army. I have reason to think that much of the credit of the change I saw was due to Yesha Council acting in a positive way and the Hesdar system working in a win – win way for
everybody. Those are some of the factors that go into effective action that helps bring real peace.
Esav had a ‘birthright’ the land of Edom. I’m not sure what the corresponding birthright for Ishmael is. Everyone can exist if they are not wicked.
I see the Yesha leades as people in denial for the last 20 years. People frightened of the leftists who fought against the idea of removing the arabs. People who said let the arabs live here we will both live here. They said that if the arabs kill us we will build more. They didn’t understand that such a thing just can’t be They just didn’t understand…and in their errors of judgment criticized those who saw things with much more clarity.
To me the question is what will they espouse now. Will they finally understand or will they continue in their blindness. Unfortunately I have no false illusions for myself. I do not expect them to support those of us who want the arabs removed. I expect more fear of the leftists and turning a blind eye to the tyranny of the government when they ban parties and put Jews into administrative detention for their views.
That is how I see it.
As far as Hillul hashem goes this is the definition:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et1236.htm
“20 And when they came unto the nations, whither they came, they profaned My holy name; in that men said of them: These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of His land. 21 But I had pity for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations, whither they came.”
Rashi explains what is obvious ie- The weakness of the Jewish people and their being driven off their land is a profanation of His holy name becasue it implies His weakness.
Even though we did it to ourselves nevertheless he is perceived as weak and impotent. His holy name is thereby profaned.
I would suggest that you read Tanach. I’d like to know where you got your definition of Kiddush Hashem.
I went to hear Rebbitzen Jungreis speak on this situation. She said as a child in Bergen-Belsen, she could have never imagined that she would see JEWS ripping Jews from their homes. She said that there is Medrash that talks about if Boaz had known the impact of him giving kernels of wheat to Rus, he would have prepared a feast. It goes on to list other examples of Reuven, etc. and she said if those great godolim did not know the impact of what was going on in their time, we certainly cannot know. She said how can people say we should give the land back when IT IS OURS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN! She said positively, that in our history there have always been difficult times that seem unexplainable, but that we should know that Hashem never leaves us, His Holy people. She said we are experiencing the birth pains and that the baby will come soon (B’ezrat Hashem, MOSHIACH). My neighbors went out of town and gave up their apartment to families from Gush Katif who have nowhere to go. My friend took orange teddies to the hotels here in Yerushalayim and was told the little boys need tzitzis so she bought them…..I too have heard stories of the outpouring of love here.
What I can’t stomach is Americans emailing me and telling me how I am wrong and how this will bring peace and how this is so great. Easy for them to say from their air-conditioned huge homes where their biggest worry is where to go for lunch that day.
Those pictures are hilarious.
I would love to carve out an israeli and cook him.
I wonder if they taste like Pork. Irony in it’s finest.
Simcha,
Will you join with those of us who support and speak out on behef o the truth? Will you you say load and clear that Rabbi Meir Kahane is right and the arabs must be removed?!
All other crying is a waste of time.
Ye gods the jews are the biggest bunch of fakers in the world. Moaning, kvetching, wailing, whining, stamping, stomping, crying BULLSHITTERS.
It’s not even their land in the first place.
What a bunch of drama queen pussies.
Each of these “evicted” families is being given several hundred thousand AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS. Not to mention a nice new comfy home in the expanding areas of the West Bank.
A more pathetic bunch of mewling crybaby fakers the world has never seen!
Fuck Israel!
No, fuck ignorant morons.
When that land was “Promised” to the Jews in antiquity, it was already populated by the indigenous Canaanites, who the Jews proceeded to exterminate wholesale. What is so “godly” about that? “Chosen People” my foot. Self-Chosen Genocidal Supremacists is more like it.
When that land was “Promised” to the Jews in antiquity, it was already populated by the indigenous Canaanites, who the Jews proceeded to exterminate wholesale. What is so “godly” about that? “Chosen People” my foot. Self-Chosen Genocidal Supremacists is more like it.
Jews are the ultimate hypocrites.