A Jewish man dressed in IDF uniform opened fire on a bus in the northern town of Shfaram Thursday evening, killing at least 4 people and wounding nearly a dozen more. The shooter, Natan Eden Zadah, 19, was also killed when he was assaulted by a mob of furious bystanders and witnesses. He apparently went AWOL 77 days ago to protest the disengagement. Thousands gathered around the site of the attack and surrounded the bus, where the attacker’s body still lay until police removed it nearly five hours after the incident.

Sharon had the following to say:

The government is determined to protect the lives of Israel’s citizens, from all ethnic communities and sectors; I have instructed the security services to accord the highest priority to investigating this terrorist attack.

Ikutiel Ben Yaacov, the founder of the far-right Jewish Legion group based in the West Bank settlement of Tapuah, had a rather different take:

We hope that [Natan] Eden [Zadah]’s death will not have been in vain…his murder will derail this sadistic disengagement plan.

Two of the victims were adolescent girls. Police and IDF were called into Shafaram in case of riots. A general strike has been called by Israeli Arabs to protest. This is clearly not a good thing when IDF forces and the police are already spread thin for disengagement.

Oh yeah [thanks CK]. See Jpost, Ha’aretz
and CNN for more details.

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  • It would nice if Jewlicious also tackled the unfortunate incidents that lead to today’s unsealing of indictments for AIPAC machers, as well as the broader question as to how far Jews should consider taking their support of Israel, even as they may be harming the U.S. and thier own interests by refusing to descern that these are two seperate nations with disparate interests.

    A broad challenge and accounting of AIPAC’s perfidymachinations may be needed by the Jewish community.

    This is also “not good.”

  • Actually, Kelsey, you attention-seeking moron, Jewlicious has already tackled this issue a couple of times. Your comments about dual loyalty (or preference of Israel over the US) belong in the rest of the pile with all of the trash that you spew out. Really, go post it on Jewschool or places like Stormfront.

    As for this topic, I hope they tore Natan’s limbs from his body before he died. Condolences to those poor families, and let’s hope the Israeli police and IDF can prevent these attacks in the future. They should also ring this idiot’s gravesite with landmines to dissuade any other idiots who go to Baruch Goldstein’s grave from doing the same here.

  • Middle,

    I read your prior comments on this issue, but you consistently preferred to express hope that it wasn’t true, as well as to suggest it was only happening because of, altogether now, “ANTI-SEMITISM”.

    It appears this might not be Dreyfuss redux, but actual wrong doing.

    I don’t think the possibility that this is so makes anyone a neo-nazi, and if your attitude emerges as the position of the mainstream Jewish organizations, and there is real fire behind this smoke, the American Jewish community is in for a beating.

    And deservedly so.

  • This won’t derail it. The Israeli Arab community is one of the most prosperous in the Arab world, outside gulf states. They have total freedom, and
    don’t share the burden of army service. They will get over this, after all this happens to the Jewish Israelis.
    I am ashamed of the Right wing lunatic fringe and their supporters, as I am of the Left one.
    Nothing will stop it, due to the fact that the government has taken the position that it is time to remove this occupation of having 8000 Jews amongst 2.4 million Arabs, who do not accept this occupation, and the government is also not willing to extend whatever draconian moves they do or will consider. So that there is no possibility that this arab side will accept the occupation. So they decided to try a new approach, and they will not back down, this is why I don’t understand these Orange bands and demonstrations, they are only wasting more badly needed funds. Do you know for example, a new Synagouge and Beit Midrash were built in Gush Katif less than 2 years ago for 5 Mill. which someone(s) donated from Long Island, NY.

  • “the American Jewish community is in for a beating. And deservedly so.” Kelsey is A) a fascist, B) a Nazi, C) an asshole, or D) all of the above.

    Is this guy for real? He thinks the ENTIRE community – not just certain individuals – deserve “a beating?” Where is this guys brown shirt and jack boots? What a psycho. The answer is D. The only real question is whether is a rightist fascist or a leftist fascist. Kelsey, which is it ? Are you Stalin or Hitler?

  • oh, what a chillul Hashem!! I am against the disengagement, and support protesting within reason, but it hurts me to see such actions. He is just as bad the terrorists now. I am glad they mob killed him, if only they would also do that to Arab terrorists

  • DiGiTal,
    This is what happens when people’s back are against the wall.

    He should not have been put in the position of being forced to drag Jews out of their homes so that he went AWOL. He felt the arabs were to blame and this drove him to this.

    Unfortunately Israel is to blame – they disenfranchise people and push them against the wall.

  • What natan did is in my opinion evil (pretty stupid too) but I don’t think tearing his limbs out before they killed him is the moral thing to do. You didn’t really mean that TM, did you?
    and condolences to natan’s family too

  • Schmo – Yeah! I hear ya! Way to have the balls to admit what every right thinking person is thinking but was afraid to say! They were going to make him throw people out of their homes! What option did he have?

    He was opposed to disengagement so rather than refuse an order and sit in jail for a couple of weeks, he did what he had to do. He struck out at his enemies! Yes – an Egged Bus Driver, 2 teen age girls and other innocent Druze Arabs.

    Those fuckers were just asking for it and Natan, may hashem bless his brave brave soul had no other choice. His sacrifice has advanced his cause immeasurably. Bravo!

  • All the Israeli newspapers call the murderer a terrorist. Wish the BBC would learn from us.

  • Hello Syria!

    No, I’m afraid I do wish he was torn from limb to limb. This was premeditated murder of innocents directly intended to have political ramifications. This was terrorism and the most painful punishment meted to this man before his death would have been insufficient.

  • The thing I’m most worried about are the copycats.
    ck, would this be a Jewish hero? Just thinking how this completely shakes our world, when a JEW does it. Don’t think it’s the same across other cultures. They have celebrations, parties-that’s the scariest part. Worshipping and celebrating someone, even a son’s death.

  • Nice quote – how many people in this “Jewish Legion” – anywhere near the 70,000 who have participated in the non-violent protests?

    Anyone here of this organization before?

    Now let’s look at Ha’aretz – whose editorial page sucks, but who generally try to get the facts right on the news page.

    You remember *facts* don’t you?
    Let’s see:
    – He doesn’t live in a settlement, he lives in Rishon LeTzion – he only lately started hanging out with “hilltop youth” in Tapuach.
    – He only recently – and very suddenly – became extremely religious. Not a healthy BT scenario.
    – This guy went AWOL several times before, and did time in an army jail for it.
    – His family begged the army to find out what’s with him, but they said they “couldn’t do anything for 45 days” and LET HIM KEEP HIS RIFLE!!!

    Facts – aren’t they wonderful?

    Meanwhile 45,000 protesters – including many who have served in the army – are maintaining a peaceful vigil.

    That vigil is conducted by people and organizations we actually have heard of before!

  • Joe Schmo is defending arab terror as much as she is this guy – it is a suprise she supports expelling all Arabs. Her argument suggests Arabs would be justified in responding with terror if her evil views were ever implemented as policy.

  • agree with ben david – this guy doesn’t seem to have been all there, but like the article said, if people like Ben Yaacov are out there willing to support violent resistance, then we shouldn’t look at it as a isolated incident of one psycho. These are people who support a form of political terrorism. we should be asking ourselves if the peaceful/sane pro-disengagement people are doing enough to differentiate themselves from the extremists?I shudder when I think of my friends who spent a year in israel (american yeshiva programs) come back, and announce that it was a good thing Rabin died, and the only shame was that they didn’t kill him earlier. – this kind of mentality fuels the ideology that this entire palestinian/Israeli conflict is equally blameable on both sides (it is not). they’ve got their crazies, we’ve got our crazies, now if we could just get them all sedated and under control…

  • Hey I understand all the frusteration. Its better if this wouldn’t happen.

    But its not organized – its what happens when people are squeezed against the wall. Does the mother bear not attack when she and her cubs are threatened with a wall behind them?

  • Yisrael,

    Israel belongs to us not to them- understand the distinction. Moving arabs out is moving out illegals who want to throw us out of our land.

  • i condemn this abominable attack. HOWEVER, i don’t feel it is fair to implicate the whole orange camp b/c of the action of one man. unfortunately, the mainstream media (in america & israel alike) disagrees. just to put this absurdity into context, it would be tantamount to portraying the recent hamas attack on netanya as being carried out by “disengagement proponents” – which is true since hamas does indeed support sharon’s decision to withdraw from gaza. but i reckon you wouldn’t see that in a newspaper headline, eh?

  • Joe, does your comment include the Druze and Bedouin Arabs who fight in the IDF and support the state of Israel? Should they be expelled too?

  • Yisrael,
    If Druze or Bedouin have allegiance and clearly state that Israel belongs to the Jewish people than they should be able to stay with their personal rights – but no right to vote.

  • Can’t you see what is happening now in Israel because of your misguided morality?

  • Ah, Joe. And people wonder why religious Zionism is associated with crazy fundamentalists. Let me spell it out for you: Zadah was a TERRORIST. He murdered civilians in order to make a political statement. He is on the exact same moral plane as Palestinians who murder Israelis in order to further their nationalistic cause. And you are on the same moral plane as the people who make miserable excuses for these murderers, that they are poor and oppressed and just can’t help themselves.

  • Joe, so now you are promoting some kind of Jewish version of dhimmitude? So when Jews were expelled from Arab countries in 1948, was that right of those Arab countries? You seem to arguing for Jews doing what we see as evil among Arabs.

    The Torah gives us special obligations, but it does not make us superior to non-Jews. You can claim my morality is “misguided,” but your morality ignores the moral worth of millions of people made in God’s image. Your arguments sound more like the arguments of an apologist for Arab terror than like the arguments of a righteous Jew.

  • Did Jews try to take over the the countries they lived in?! They only helped those countries but were were treated like dirt for doing nothing.

    The Arabs in Israel try to take over our country. Were they to get to power they would do to all of us what they did to our brothers who never attempted to take over their country.

    The difference is obvious.
    I, unlike you, am unwilling to let what happened to my brothers who were in those Arab countries then- happen again to them in Israel now.

    The only way to make sure of that is not to allow those Arabs to yield power over us in Israel. Indeed how misguided your ‘morality’ is.

  • I am under no illusions as to the condition of Jews in Muslim countries, or the motivations of Israel’s Arab neighbors. The latter have made their intentions to destroy Israel explicitly clear. However, I fail to see what this has to do with the murder of four people in some Galillean village, other than the fact that this incident will be forever used to “prove” that the Jews are just as bad as the Arabs. Which, according to your argument, we are. They want to kill or expel us. You want to kill or expel them. I’m not seeing a huge moral distinction here.

  • balagan I’ll try again,

    There is a difference between wanting to expel those who want to take your stuff and wanting to expel those who don’t want to take your stuff.

    Is that simple and clear enough?

  • Right, but it’s okay for those who don’t want to take your stuff to live with you as long as you don’t let them vote and discriminate against them. 🙄

  • The problem with Joe is that she is not going to spend any time figuring out which Arabs are the bad and which are the good. She’ll just expel them all.

  • TM, Does the word ‘don’t’ extend over the last half of the sentence ‘and discriminate agianst them’ ?

    Whatever you meant the explanation of vote is also simple. How can a non-Jew vote on decisions that affect the running of a Jewish state? We have a Jewish state where Jews control it. If non-Jews take over than what is the point?

    Right now there are over 10 arab knesset members who vote against israel with intent to remove it from Jewish control. It is terrible and a threat.

    I am unwilling to allow that to happen.

  • I know you are, Joe. But unlike you, I think most people agree that having a Jewish state that isn’t a democracy and where a minority is treated in a discriminatory fashion, is a very bad idea that shouldn’t happen.

  • Above, Joe said she sypathized with this Kach terrorist in part because he was “disenfranchised.” For whatever reason, she now thinks the Arabs should take the higher road and accept true disenfranchisement without resorting to terror. So, Joe, do you think we should have a policy that demands Arabs behave better than Jews?

  • I don’t want to discriminate against anyone – they should have personal right. They should be able to vote Israel to be a muslim state?

    Actually I don’t think the arabs will accept it -if so they have to leave.

    You can see what is happening in Europe in France, England… – let it happen to them those anti-semitic countries you haven’t even begun to see the friction with their muslim inhabitants yet. Not in my country and the country of my fathers.

    You are both right a Jewish state and a democracy are contradictory. Those are the facts nothing I can do about it.

  • A Jewish state and a democracy are not contradictory. But, you have to be willing to accept that we will not annex all of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. So be it.

  • Wrong even Israel in the ‘green line’ is threatened. The more than 10 arab knesset members are ONLY from within the green line.

  • Joe schomo asked whether the arabs of Isarel would be able to vote to make Israel muslim.

    whilst I do not feel this would be result of an election where all inhabitants of israel voted, i do feel that this is why disengagment is so vital. If israel doesn’t stop occupying millions of palestinians, they will stop asking for a state, and start asking for a vote. and how will Israel, the greatest democracy in the middle east, respond when more than half of its inhabitants will be forbidden from voting? This is why we need a two state solution asap.

  • The question is mute and JoeSchmo is not bringing a new relvelation to the world.

    The Torah and various great Rabbis (basically anyone with smicha past and present) can tell you about ‘ger toshav’ – the status of a goy who chooses to live in Israel, the Jewish responsibility to protect him, and the minimal goyish responsibility to accept the seven Noahide laws – or else the boot to the tuchus (though the torah actually likes bloodier endings).

    Sorry to break that fake new-age Jewish image you’ve generated, but dhimmitude is a concept taken from the torah, stolen and warped like many of the Arab traditions.

    The big difference between the torah and today is that we are nowhere near the high level of spirituality needed to carry out this ‘justice’ (kicking Arabs out) or even implementing the ger toshav status. The Jews aren’t ready, and frankly, IMO, proclaiming the necessity to kick Arabs out is an obvious sign of lack of faith. If we unite in faith in god under the torah, they will leave on their own.

  • Head Rabbi of Tel Aviv Hevra Kadisha (burial society): No reason to bury Zada ‘outside the fence’.

    Interesting short Q&A in hebrew only. Sorry I can’t translate at this time, except to paraphrase that the Rabbi explains why he shouldn’t be buried ‘outside the fence’ which is a term used to describe Jews who commit suicide who while still buried inside the Jewish cemetary, are interned a cerain distance away from other deceased, but not outside the walls as ignorantly (and commonly) perceived.

    The Rabbi says that a Jew is buried as a Jew, even if he ‘converted’ to another ‘religion’.

    posted to jewschool as well.

  • Josh, You are speaking for the Torah and that is fine but I might ask you to back up what you say-if you can fine Im willing to learn.

    1. Where do you get the concept of us having to be on a high level of spirituality to carry out those things?
    2. ‘sign of lack of faith’- explain why.

    Until you can explain that it seems simple to me that the lack of faith is NOT doing what has to be done due to fear of the nations over the fear of G-d. By not doing what we should we are directly causing the murder of thousands of Jews.

  • schmo,
    I have no doubt that if we kicked out all arabs tomorrow, that a civil war is not far off behind that.
    I’m sorry you’re stuck in the gashmi. Taking chocolate away from an obese person doesn’t mean they’ll lose weight. The obese person has to change internally and psychologically. The chocolate then has no affect.

    If only we’d unite under torah, then the Arabs would know that they can’t beat us no matter what. But kicking arabs out so that we can have piece and quiet to continue shopping and going to treif movies is not going to solve our problems.

    The arabs are hashem’s tools to unite us. How many times has it been said, ‘if only they were smart?’. They launched a kasem surface to surface missle at Sderot, (something they’ve done hundreds of times) while 50 000 people were in the ‘town square’, and the missile fell onto a Palestinian boy.

    As for us ‘not being worthy’; Pinhas should have been punished for killing the prince and the midianite women, but he was honoured instead because his heart was pure, it was not out of revenge.

    Plese tell me Schmo. The day after you kick all the Arabs out, what next? The seculars will suddenly discover torah? or do we kick out the kofers as well?

  • unfortunately, josh is right. i do not believe that israel should be theocratic state, but the polar nature of politics in israel means that things can only go one way or the other. if religion and state decide to go their separate ways, where does that leave Israel? what will then constitue calling it a jewish state? the fact that we eat chulent in the same place abraham did? I have a very hard time reconciling the fact that I agree with secular mentality for israel’s short term (because it is usually a more pragmatic approach to israel’s problems)but i nevertheless cannot envision israel without a religious presence in the future. jews are way too complicated….

  • Josh,

    You see throwing them out is like not eating treif- both are commanded. maybe we are being tested to see if we will remove them as we were warned to do? Ever thought of that? Are you willing to accept responsibility before Hashem for a. abomination on the temple mount b. Jews killed constantly c. irreligious girls marrying arabs and going to thier towns? I do not want to be held accountable – but you will be held accountable because you actively, with other right-wingers, challenge condemn and want to stop those who are trying to do what is right.

    Your bringing up treif is like someone who says lets keep kosher why should we keep shabbos. Wrong- we were warned concerning both things.

    In this parsha:
    bamidbar “55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then shall those that ye let remain of them be as thorns in your eyes, and as pricks in your sides, and they shall harass you in the land wherein ye dwell. 56 And it shall come to pass, that as I thought to do unto them, so will I do unto you. ”

    But I know you know this already- why do you argue against what you know? because you can’t get other influences out of your mind.

    As far as Pinhus- how about a SOURCE that he would have been punished. Enough talk. So far as I know he ‘saved all Israel’ because someone had to step up and do it, otherwise…
    bamidbar “25,11 ‘Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned My wrath away from the children of Israel, in that he was very jealous for My sake among them, so that I consumed not the children of Israel in My jealousy.” -ie without someone doning what pinbhus did it might have been curtains…

    I can also quote for you about Kanaim Pokim Bo which pinhus is just an example and there is no mention about worthiness there.

    “Plese tell me Schmo. The day after you kick all the Arabs out, what next? The seculars will suddenly discover torah? or do we kick out the kofers as well? ”

    -I have plenty of answers for that but
    that is not your concern – do what Hashem tells you and leave the calculations to Him.

  • Schmo,
    I am not against it, but rather think that our efforts should be spent elsewhere right now. We know that the secular state is collapsing onto itself, we need to strengthen the people for when the time comes for the next paradigm shift. That’s the part I love about Kahane, his relentless efforts to give pride back to the Jew and our galut mentality of succumbing to the goy and asking for more.

  • quote “I am not against it, but rather think that our efforts should be spent elsewhere right now.”

    No Josh you are against it. You have already right here spoke against the idea of moving the arabs out. If you were agreed but personally were focussing your efforts elsewere I could understand. But you didn’t agree about condemed Kahane becasue you are fearful of the left and what they will think of you if you sound too radical.
    We know that the secular state is collapsing onto itself, we need to strengthen the people for when the time comes for the next paradigm shift. That’s the part I love about Kahane, his relentless efforts to give pride back to the Jew and our galut mentality of succumbing to the goy and asking for more.

  • This ridiculous debate instigated by a guy who believes Israel should be more like Iran is a joke.

    Just remember, folks, Israel is the fruit of a secular nationalist movement called Zionism. It was this movement that established a vibrant, living Jewish state for the first time in two millenia. It was also this movement that enabled the Jewish state to protect and defend itself with pride and ferocity.

    Oh, and one more reminder: democracies do well to defend themselves against internal anti-democracy advocates.

  • TM wrote “Just remember, folks, Israel is the fruit of a secular nationalist movement called Zionism.”
    –A thing of the past. secular zionism is almost dead. But then again you are used to that – conservatism is also almost dead.

  • Secular Zionism funded, supported and defended your religious aspirations including your Zionism, Joe. Have some respect – you wouldn’t even be spouting this stuff if it weren’t for so many who reject and rejected what you believe and say.

  • I really don’t know where you get all this from.

    What do you think we don’t wrok and earn money ourselves? Do you think anyone gave my gradparents funds when they were fired every other week for not going to work on shabbat?

    The secular zionist used to at least have some Jewsih background after all thier parents and grandparents were G-d fearing. They also felt the anti-semitism and went to Israel since they saw it was the only way. Sure they were involved but what do you mean that they funded as if they were giving Tzedakah.

    Unfotunately they have grown further and further from thier G-d fearing ancestors until now you see them leaving Israel acting like Goyim and in general declining rapidly.

    I love them and want to do something about it but until we recognize and state the problem we will never be able to arrive at a solution.

  • What’s funny TM is that Orthodox Judaism supplies secular Judaism with the continuity and the bodies. So it kinda works both ways. Just sayin …