I knew that little dipshit drama queen couldn’t stay away. The former Jew rapper found Jesus and shut down his stupid Web site. But then, like Jesus rising from the dead, Fifty Shekel hath returned. He has now been re-christened and has gone from being a bad rapper to a truly terrible Christian trance/electronica… uh… singer dude. I mean lets put aside the bullshit Jewish messianism stuff for a sec. This stuff is REALLY awful – highlights include Call Him, a remake of Blondie’s Call Me, with the sexual innuendo taken out and replaced by this homoerotic fill me up with your holy spirit O Holy father bad electronica shtick; also avoid the Techno-remix of Bette Midler’s Wind Beneath My Wings – the worst techno remix since Achey Breaky Heart.

Now there’s been some rumblings. Folks feel I may have been a bit harsh on poor Aviad. He’s obviously a very confused boy who had it rough because he’s a Cohen and had he stuck with Orthodox Judaism he’d have to date only never married Jewesses who have never had sex with a non-Jew. Now I admit the extreme hatred I aimed his way was rough, especially given the whole Jewish holidays thing and the avoid sina’at chinam (blind hatred) thing. And I did feel bad. For about a second. Just as I was about to turn the other cheek though I realized that my hatred was not blind and that I am not a Christian. The dude’s involvement in messianic Judaism is an affront. Anyone that chooses to go down that road should know that if they do so, they will catch shit. However, should Aviad ever come to his senses and give up this Jews for Jesus crap, I’ll be more than happy to invite him over for shabbat or I’ll buy him a beer. He’ll still be an awful musician. But he’ll have a beer. Now seriously, is that blind hatred?

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About the author

ck

Founder and Publisher of Jewlicious, David Abitbol lives in Jerusalem with his wife, newborn daughter and toddler son. Blogging as "ck" he's been blocked on twitter by the right and the left, so he's doing something right.

220 Comments

  • Who is the “site admin” who posted this? just curious, I still don’t know your writing styles apart.

  • to call him a musician at all is very charitable of you. and you say you’re not a Christian…

  • Uh… sorry yiddishkeit. Site admin (in this case) was me, ck. My writing style involves the liberal use of profane language and brownshirt thug tactics.

  • For future reference, anytime someone says “I totally disagree with everything you’ve said and I wouldn’t marry you because I don’t consider you Jewish, but I’ll buy you a beer and/or invite you happily to Shabbat dinner,” that’s CK.

  • How could anyone listen to a guy whose only hit was a ripoff of a song about doing ecstasy and having sex in a club? In Da Shul? Come on Aviad, if that is your real name.

    Makes you wonder though, if this is how little the Artist formerly known as 50 Shekel envisioned that is the way things would turn out for him: Yeshiva student, bad Jewish Rapper, bad Jews for Jesus rapper.

    Word, bitch.

  • Give the guy a freaking break! He’s feeling confused and isolated. Making fun of him is only going to hurt him and push him farther away.

  • You may very well have a point lchayim. However, Montreal was recently inundated by an army of Jews for Jesus. They were everywhere, giving out their fliers etc. These are not people you can really talk to – I have certainly tried. I don’t know that we can save Aviad, I mean he was right smack in the middle of the heartland, the Upper West Side and still they lost him. Bujt I do know that if anyone out there is considering joining Jews for Jesus, they ought to know the full consequences. They ought to know that they will not be mollycoddled. They will receive anger, hatred and rejection. So do we chill for the sake of one confused mentally fragile guy? Or do we rip into him mercilessly so that others who may be considering the same be fully aware of the consequences? I say merciless ripping. But I am willing to be told differently … please tell me if my reasoning is faulty.

  • “. . .do we chill for the sake of one confused mentally fragile guy? Or do we rip into him mercilessly so that others who may be considering the same be fully aware of the consequences?”

    Your reasoning is not faulty, it’s unrealistic. These are two extremes on the continuum. It doesn’t have to be either-or or black & white, ck. Having some rachmonis on a confused guy doesn’t mean that you are totally chill and ignoring his aveiros (which he has been doing in spades, admittedly). On the other hand, the vitriol doesn’t have to be so harsh, as that does border on sina’at chinum. Ripping into someone won’t motivate change in the direction you’re desiring. I suggest that you try to see the gray in this situation, even though, for you, that might be quite difficult.

    I can see why you are so angry though. You are a peace-loving Jew and proud of your heritage. And here’s a guy who you feel dissed your belief system. . . . and put it to bad music.

  • I’ve talked to professionals and the vast majority of Jews who get into J4J don’t last in the movement for long. They either become full-fledged Christians or go back to Judaism. It’s because J4J and Messianic Judaism is so full of contradictions that no one who knows anything about Judaism can ignore it for long. Eventually all the good feelings get overwhelmed by the contradictions and they either give up on Judaism or on Christianity. So stick with Aviad and let him know that you care for him and that the door is also open for him to return.

    Here’s an interesting website http://exjewsforjesus.org/

  • At first I thought you guys were being to tough on the poor guy. Then I clicked on to the site and listened to his “music”… what can one say? It may very well be the worst piece of crap I’ve heard all my life… and I’m from Europe, the land of the Eurovision song contest… that is saying a lot.

  • ck,

    “Merciless ripping” won’t frighten potential Jews for Jesus. It’ll just reinforce their sense of anger at the Jewish community. Instead of spazzing out on them, I think it’s better to explain why Jews for Jesus are such an affront — b/c the movement is a continuation of a long line of missionary activities which are anti-Semitic at their root b/c they cannot contend with the continued existence of Judaism. Or just ignore them.

    As for your Upper West Side comment, I lived there for a bit and almost became pagan.

  • Baselss hatred is one thing.

    But nobody ever said it was wrong to hate somebody who so obviously deserves it.

    If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s fucking J4J. Stam missionaries I can deal with. I know they’re out to steal my soul and cut me off from Hashem. So I just ignore them. They’re Christians. Who needs to pay any attention?

    But these J4J people are the dirtiest, most underhanded, most evil, vilest scum ever to deface the planet. They deserve no sympathy, only hatred and resistance. They are worse than anything I can imagine.

    Trayf is one thing when you can see that it is obviously an oyster or a pork chop. But spiritual poison masquerading as something kosher is more despicable than anything I can imagine.

    I hope that the idiot realizes the error of his ways and does t’shuva. But until then he’s on his own.

  • 50 Shekel reminds me of a Daily Show clip from the 2004 elections.
    There stood John McCain at the RNC Convention giving his speech:
    “It was between war and a graver threat. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Not our political opponents. And certainly — and certainly not a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe…”
    At this point the cameras swing up to Michael Moore who realizes all eyes are on him and stands up to accept his boos with gleeful pride.

    The clip ends and John Stewart says “Nooo! Don’t put Michael Moore on camera, he hates that!

    Seriously, i understand the 50 Shek hate, and i’ve said since the beginning that people were overlooking the shit-tastic music he puts out, but continually putting him on Jewlicious and Jewschool is doing just what he wants…attracting more attention. Think about it, this guy stretched a song as wretched as “In Da Shul” into the longest, most undeserved 15 minutes of fame since the Backstreet Boys.

    And while he is most definitely stupid enough to jump on the J4J ship, and then proceed to call Rabbinical Judaism trayf and for all the other stupid, infuriating shit he does…he is smart in that everytime his site shuts down and starts up he gets the front page on the Jewschoolicious juggernaut of the Jewish Blog scene.

    During the writing of this email, i was informed i got on a Birthright trip 🙂 F 50shek, i’m going to Israel!

  • What’s the difference between Jews and Christians if you remove Jesus? No insults intended.

    If Jesus only knew how much hate and discontent his death would cause in the world, I’ll bet he would have wanted to live forever…..err, on second thought…..

  • Jesus was a nice Jewish boy, a nice progressive Jewish boy at that. I don’t pretend to have a clear understanding of Christianity, and not to be inflamatory or anything, but I don’t think most Christians do either. Every one that I have talked to just believes the most convenient thing for them. A lot of people have a problem telling me to my face that I’m going to hell no matter how nice I am. And a lot of people don’t. With Judaism there are some rules and guidelines for how to live your life and of course I don’t follow them, and in my opinion that doesn’t make me any less Jewish, but there you have it. Christians don’t seem to have policies, if you get what I’m saying. Even though I’m not that religious of a person I find people appealing who believe in a personal relationship with God and all that, and like what Jesus had to say. When people tell me that they straight up believe that a virgin had a baby by the Holy Ghost, and that that baby brought the dead to life, i’m a little put off, frankly.

  • Someone remind me, are we ripping on this guy because he is a poor musician or because he decided to become Christian?

  • If we could just get rid of those pesky prophecies this stuff would never happen!!

    Ofri, remember that guy Moses, they said he parted the Red Sea, rescued the Israelites from slavery and all that, I mean really parting a sea!!!

    Ofri you’re not going to hell(yet anyway), but how will you blot out your sins?! How can you stand in front of a just God and expect not to be turned away! Are you righteous, are you sinless? Where is your priest to atone for your sins? There is no Temple you have no sacrafice. Also where is your Messiah, the prophet Daniel said that he would be here before the destruction of the second Temple(Daniel 9:2), but where(see Micah 5:2 for the truth). If he didn’t come before 70AD then you by your own admission make Daniel a false prophet, a liar. And on this basis you call yourself a Jew. tut tut

    Leave Aviad alone,
    As he says he is True Jew now.
    Why don’t you read the Scripture and find out for yourself, after all it’s your eternity not Aviad’s or any Christian that’s on the line.

  • 60shekel go witness somewhere else. We don’t need you to tell us about how a dead Jew is actually G-d.

  • I know I shouldn’t…
    A dead Jew cannot be G-d, only the Messiah…
    Yechi adoneinu…

  • I’m just witnessing ignorance. No of course not. Zechariah 12:10. David knew it (Psalm 22). C’mon, c’mon, time for the New Covenant, oh wait another Jew told me about that (Jeremiah 31:32). I mean get Jewish people!!

  • … and the award for “flimsiest online alias ever perpetrated” goes to… 60shekel!!!
    c’mon 60… you know you’re really 50, referring to yourself in the 3rd person to make it seem like someone *else* is on your side… nice try. we already *know* that no one else is on your side. at least, no one who we’d call a jew.

  • So what you’re saying is that those who don’t believe in Jesus are not only “unsaved” and damned to hell but are also not jewish.

    Well I have to say, as someone who is called an non-jew by the orthodox community because my parents DO believe in Jesus and I didn’t convert with an O-Rabbi I’m shocked. Now i’m a non-jew in all kinds of spheres 🙂 Apparently, if i had just stayed put i could have been True Jew.

    What a crock. And offensive to boot.

  • Elon, the only way to be a true Jew is to become a Mormon. According to them, they are the true Children of Israel, and everyone who is not a Mormon is referred to as a gentile. Kind of a mindf*ck the first time you encounter that!

  • I found an interview with 50 Shekel on a Messianic Pod Cast called The Shofar’s Call. He doesn’t seem too wacky. Just sounds like he had a bad experience growing up. (But then who didn’t?) Maybe parents are to blame?

    Hear the interview : 50 Shekel Interview

    BTW – I heard the music; he’s no Hasidic Reggae Superstar.

  • Hey, since the 2nd Temple was destroyed every Jew is suspect. Can you truly call yourself a Jew, also how can you tell when your “Messiah” comes if he is actually of the line of David. Now come on that’s a fair question. Let me guess you have blue eyes, blonde hair and you look more like a Russian than Semitic. Be honest Osama bin Laden looks more Semitic than you do. I think those URLs are wrong surely they are jewsfortalmud.com and jews_ for_ word_ of_ mouth_ oral_ law_ not_ the_ one_ written_ down_ and_ verifiable.com oh and lets not forget rabbis_for_expensive_yashivas.com. “No don’t learn Torah at home(that’s cheap!!) come here and we’ll tell you what it means, God doesn’t want you to read and understand he wants you to pay me to tell you what it says. Why waste your time when I know all the answers already”. I don’t know about Mormons. Be honest now when your “Messiah” comes he isn’t going to fulfill any of the prophecies, he’s probably gonna solve the crisis with the Muslims(cos you’ll both be sucked in by him), and rebuild the Temple, that’s what I’ve been hearing. When Yeshua returns He isn’t going to be the nice carpenter from Nazareth(Isaiah 63:3), the Yeshua you mock now (still mocking huh again Psalm 22, honestly you bring it on yourself).

    Later

    Shalom

    Oh and I’m not 50shekel, I mean if I was him I wouldn’t come to face the vitriol here.

  • There is no such thing as a ‘Semitic look’. Many Arabs have blonde hair and blue eyes. And King David had red hair, so…

    That’s all beside the point. Moshiach could be as pasty as Woody Allen and still be a descendant of David. In fact, Woody Allen is much more closely related to Tariq Aziz than Vladimir Putin. He and Aziz even look alike (don’t lie, you see it too!)!

  • OK sure if you believe that it makes it true. Yeah watch Al-Jazeera for the night and count the amount of blonde haired and blue eyed folks(and for fun the amount of moustaches), good luck. Oh lets not forget most of those Muslims from the north are… you guessed it Russians, 1 in 3 Russians is a Muslim, of course they’ll move south to join a Jihad!!

  • I was speaking in general terms. It’s a fact. Light eyes and hair are quite common in the Levant. It has nothing to with being Muslim, as these features are present among Maronites as well. And Tariq Aziz is Chaldean — the man is a Catholic.

    By the way, most ‘Russian Muslims’ are actually from the Transcaucasian region, ie, Southwest Asia, and look like other southwestern Asians.

    Next time you may want to think twice before you argue these things with an anthropology student. Sheesh. Moron.

  • Psalms 22 predicts Jesus?
    Here show us all where.

    It’s hardly the “time for the New Covenant”, there is nothing wrong with the one made long before “jesus”. Believe what you want, but don’t insult our intelligence and waste our time with your messianic BS.

    In closing, some scripture from the Gospel of Richard Pryor in the Newest of Testaments:
    “Have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up!”
    I think that’s from chapter 22 of said gospel, you’ll have to look it up.

  • 60 Shekels? I think we can betray your Lord twice for that price! I’m in! Where to do I collect my filthy lucre?

  • Tariq Aziz is a Catholic(so that stops him being semitic how? Fuck trade in that degree for some magic beans!!), so you’re an anthropology student, wow. So really you believe that man came from apes, not how Torah says it.

    Read Psalm 22 now read Matthew 27:46
    Read Isaiah 40:3 now read Matthew 3:1-2
    Read Micah 5:2 now read Matthew 2:1
    Read Genesis 49:10 now read Luke 3:23-34 and Matthew 1:1-16
    Read Zechariah 9:9 now read Luke 19:35-37
    Read Psalms 41:9 now read Matthew 26:47-50
    Read Zechariah 11:12 now read Matthew 26:14-15 (yes 60 is 30 twice, congratulations!!! dick!)
    Read Isaiah 50:6 now read Matthew 26:67-68
    Read Isaiah 53:5 now read Matthew 27:26
    Read Isaiah 53:7 now read Matthew 27:12-14
    Read Zechariah 11:13 now read Matthew 27:5-7
    Read Psalm 22:16 now read Luke 23:33
    Read Isaiah 53:12 now read Matthew 27:38
    And my fingers are cramping up. That should be enough for you to chew on. Now go and ask your Rabbi to explain all of this, I’m sure he’ll come up with some creative answers. You probably go to a synagogue where Isaiah 53 isn’t read out, oh well.

  • Fuck it, while your Rabbi’s explaining those here’s some more. Honestly I have to teach you your own scripture!!

    Read Isaiah 11:1-5 now read Matthew 1:1, 6
    Read Psalm 16:10-11, now tell me my Messiah is dead!
    Read Daniel 9:25 now read John 12:12-13 (this one takes some work, but I see ck is is numerate so he can calculate the days! 483 years if you can count, remember God is great)
    Read Daniel 9:26 now read Matthew 27:50-51
    Deuteronomy 18:15-19 now read John 6:14,Matthew 21:11, John 4:19
    Read Psalm 110:4 now read Hebrews 6:17-20
    Read Zechariah 6:12-13 now read Hebrews 8:1, Romans 8:34
    Read Isaiah 9:6 now read John 7:46, Luke 4:32, Matthew 13:54 (Now tell me about that dead Jew who was God thing again)
    Read Deuteronomy 32:43 now read Luke 2:13-14 (Also there are many occasions in the Old Testament where people bow down and worship a mystery Angel or Messenger of God, this is also Jesus-Yeshua)

    Read Isaiah 6:9-10 now read Matthew 13:13-15
    Read Psalm 45:2 now read Luke 4:22
    Read Isaiah 49:2 now read Revelation 2:12-16, John 12:48
    Read Deuteronomy 18:15-19 now read John 12:48-50
    Read Isaiah 9:1-2 now read Matthew 4:12-17
    Read Isaiah 11:2 now read Matthew 3:16-17, John 3:34, Colossians 2:9
    Read Isaiah 42:1 now read Matthew 3:16-17
    Read Isaiah 61:1-2 now read Matthew 3:16-17
    Read Isaiah 11:2 now read Luke 2:40, Matthew 13:54, 1 Corinthians 1:24
    Read Isaiah 11:2 now read John 2:24-25, Mark 2:8
    Read Isaiah 50:8-10 now read John 11:7-10
    Read Zechariah 9:9 now read John 5:30
    Read Isaiah 11:3 now read John 7:24, John 2:24-25
    Read Isaiah 11:4 now read Mark 12:41-44, Luke 13:30
    Read Isaiah 49:2 now read John 5:22-29
    Read Isaiah 42:2 now read Matthew 12:15-21
    Read Zechariah 9:9 now read Matthew 11:29, John 13:4-14
    Read Isaiah 53:2 now read Philipians 2:7-8
    Read Isaiah 28:16 now read 1 Peter 2:4-6
    Read Zechariah 10:4 now read Ephesians 2:20
    Read 2 Samuel 23:2-4 now read 1 Corinthians 10:4
    Read 2 Samuel 23:2-4 now read Revelation 22:16
    Read Psalm 40:6-8 now read Luke 24:44, John 5:39-40
    Read Psalm 68:18 now read Matthew 10:1, Ephesians 4:7-11
    Read Isaiah 22:22 now read Matthew 10:1, Ephesians 4:7-11
    Read Isaiah 22:22 now read Revelation 3:7

    Enough already, your rabbi’ll be pulling his hair out

  • All y’all are wasting your time with this religious debate. It will get us nowhere. Let people have their beliefs and respect them, whether or not they disgust you. And please, please, let us get back to the real issue, the only thing all people can agree on, since it transcends beliefs and deals only with facts and the truth:

    The Bette Midler “Wind Beneath My Wings Dance Remix” ala 50 Shekel may be the worst thing ever. EVER.

    I have yet to hear and J4J’s contest that one.

  • Oh, and:

    50, you might want to look into taking a Biblical Criticism class. Are you really taking this stuff literally?

  • PS. I changed my name from 60shekel to 50 so my Messiah cannot be betrayed twice. Zechariah knows the deal anyway (Zechariah 11:12).

    In the name of Yeshua the Messiah, the Holy Spirit and God almighty. Good night.

    Shalom

  • Look at the Prophets who read the bible, they took it seriously, should not the word of God be taken seriously? Either you believe or you don’t but to say they are storys or tales is very disrespectful to anyones beliefs.

    Again goodnight and shalom.

  • You know what?

    I take back what I said about the Bette Midler thing. I just heard snippets of the upcoming Kevin Federline album.

    My apologies.

    But you should still really look into the Biblical Scholarship. It might allow you a fresh perspective on the the texts you’re quoting. The verse from Jeremiah about a new covenant has always been widely misinterpreted.

  • I may do that, but to criticise God’s word in any context and however scholarly is to doubt and faith isn’t about doubt. Thanks for the advice and goodnight (it’s 1:50am and I have to get up in the morning, GMT ya know). You should check out ‘We Delight’ that’s a pretty good song now. To be honest Bette Midler is never good, no matter what you do with it 😛

  • The fact that you completely misunderstood the word “criticism” in the context that I was using it is extremely telling, in a way.

    To really practice faith, is to be able to understand our foundational texts in a sensible context and still be able to hold onto the way of life that has been developed since then. To reject doubt as opposed to struggling with it is one of the first ways of living a life without the pursuit of truth.

    If you have chosen this way of life for yourself, I strongly disagree with it, but respectfully so. However, living with blinders on can only last for so long.

    Any Streisand covers on the way?

    You should know, I would never tear apart anyone’s faith in a malicious way. But their music? Well, that’s certainly fair game to me.

  • As I understand it, Xians believe that Hashem had sex with a human woman who then gave birth to some version of the being who originally impreganted her, who was then killed as a blood sacrifice, and that people have to eat the body and drink the blood of the dead god-man to avoid being damned to eternal hellfire by a wrathful deity.

    And people think voodoo is primitive.

    If 50 shekel, or anyone else, wants to believe in something that is so stupid it would shame even a baboon, go right ahead. But just don’t insult people by insisting that the Torah says anything like that.

  • 50 Shekel: Did you hear the story about the rabbi who came across a master archer? When he asked the guy what his secret was, the archer replied, “It’s easy. I shoot the arrows first and then draw the target around them.”

    If you start with the conclusion that Jesus is the messiah, it’s easy to pick and choose verses that support that concept. In fact, if you wanted to prove that the Easter bunny was the messiah, you could probably do it using Torah, too.

    Ultimately, you either worship a man or you don’t. Sorry. Sometimes it really does come down to faith. (I didn’t want to start a game of Scripture-Pick-Apart, but I had to get that off my chest because I’m tired of J4J acting like they have “the keys to the kingdom,” so to speak, when all they do is manipulate theology for their own purposes.)

  • Also, to say “faith isn’t about doubt” is utter bullshit. Faith is the flipside of doubt. Faith is the flipside of questioning, of criticism and wonder and honesty that is brave enough to rip the world open. Faith is not built on easy-to-swallow verses that fit together like puzzle pieces. Faith is NOT so easily destroyed; if it is, it’s not faith. That’s MY faith, anyway.

    If you are told not to doubt, not to question, I’d question how much you are being brainwashed. I’m skeptical of anyone who is constantly threatened by “destruction of faith,” as though faith is made of eggshells. I question people whose scriptures are neat, tidy, and air-tight.

  • wow if that’s really 50shekel, hating on bette midler is a really bad idea, not to mention in poor taste. ok, so wind beneath my wings is bad, admittedly, but you/he took it to a whole new level of shitfulness. and cheesy songs aside, bette midler is awesome.

  • 60Shekel, the last thing I need is some uber goyishe wasp lecturing me about my own people and history over the internet.

    “Tariq Aziz is a Catholic(so that stops him being semitic how?”

    Yes, he’s a Semite (hence the reason I mentioned him). I never claimed otherwise. I was simply refuting the erroneous assertion you put forth: That all blonde Arabs are somehow Russian Muslims.

    Do you follow? Good.

    Let’s clear this up once and for all: Semites are a) descendants of Shem, and / or b) people whose native language belongs to the Semitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic family. Jews, Assyrians, and most Arabs fit both definitions. Got it? In no way is it a racial term, though most Semites could be described as ‘Mediterranean-looking’.

    Anyway, the Islamic prophet himself, an Arabian, is said to have been a redhead. By your logic, he wasn’t a Semite. And what about Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri? I guess he’s not a Semite, either. Neither are the countless light-haired, light-eyed Arabs of the Levant, for that matter!

    See how ridiculous your argument sounds? Good. You should try actually reading the Table of Nations and get back to me.

    By the way, I don’t recall giving you my stance on the evolution issue. It’s true what they say about assuming, you know. I’ll just leave it at that.

  • I just saw this shirt being sold on 50’s site. I have to say, when you juxtapose that against someone talking about his perfect faith, coupled with him telling me thats it’s never ok to criticise the bible……I don’t know, something doesn’t make sense.

  • Why is it that when people want to indicate that somehow Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy by quoting the Christian Bible, they don’t just assume that the authors of the Gospels were aware of the Hebrew Bible and recognized that they needed to make the prophecies appear to have come true?

  • Well to be honest would you be boiled to death for a lie? Would you be crucified for a lie? Would you be beheaded for a lie? Now wouldn’t people have made a big thing about it if one of the disciples was to have renounced everything about Jesus to spare his life, wouldn’t the Pharisees who had plotted against Jesus have recorded this everywhere they could have? Would a Jew die for what he felt was a just a mere man, a great teacher?! Also the apostle Paul was so digusted with these follows of Jesus that he became the top persecutor of them. Also Paul studied under Gamaliel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamaliel) grandson(or great grandson I’m 100% sure) of Hillel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder). So we can take it that Paul had a good Jewish upbringing no? So of course he didn’t like these followers of Jesus (not Christians that term was coined much later), and losing Jews to this Jesus he had to make a stand. Something strange happened on the road to Damascus(read Acts chapter 9). After this well everybody knows Paul now.

    So to say to be a Christian is stupid just look at Isaac Newton, Donald Knuth, Carl Friedrich Gauss, erm Bob Dylan :-), Galileo , René Descartes and Michelangelo the list could go on. This argument about intelligence is stupid you could easily quote some very influencial Jews. As this short list shows your statement is incorrect.

  • You’re so easy, Middle.

    But seriously. If your question isn’t completely rhetorical, think about possible answers and get back to me.

  • People who believe one stupid thing can often be quite intelligent in other fields. People compatrmentalize.

    And Robert Zimmerman at least had the sense to come to his senses. He’s no longer one of you, AFAIK. And you only have to listen to his music from his “saved” period to realize that, in addition to a lot of other things, smug Xian self-righteousness makes for lousy, lousy music.

    Sorry, but the idea that G-d got a woman pregnant only so that she could give birth to a half-god/half-man who was destined to be killed as a sacrifice so that people could eat his body and drink his blood so G-d wouldn’t kill them seems stupid to me.

    But you’re obviously here to shit all over our beliefs. I feel it is only polite of me to return the favor.

  • Hey,

    I never shit on your beliefs, I share your beliefs. The only place I differ is on the Messiah. Please don’t think I’m trying to offend you and discredit your beliefs this is not my goal. I’m just giving the reasons for my beliefs and why you should lay off Messianic Jews. Also to be honest Robert Zimmerman, I don’t see what the big deal is anyway he wasn’t that good I should have left him off (now please try and pick on one of the others, he was the weakest link in that chain of names and is nowhere as skilled as the other people).

    Also why are Messianic Jews treated worse than a Jew who becomes a Muslim, Hindu, Buddist or yes an Atheist, Jewish families are known to mourn for sons and daughters who become followers of Jesus. I mean just check out this site http://www.amfi.org/mac/rluidx.htm . A whole list of anti-Christian legislation in the “secular” state of Israel. I personally don’t believe that a Jew will go to hell if he rejects Jesus (I’m sure God will show grace to his Holy People, but on the other hand blind/baseless hate is something totally different and Paul indicates this in the New Testament). Lets be clear that if a person rejected Moses where would be stand? Also I believe that in the book of Revelation it makes clear that a future Israel will believe in the Messiah (as Jesus). Although this will come at the end of the Great Tribulation (in the OT this is the time of Jacob’s Trouble, see Jeremiah 30:11,Zechariah 13:8-9 – here two thirds of Israel are killed!! Never Again! Sorry but unless this can be taken another way then it’s going to be worse). Also on the point of do Jews go to heaven if they reject Messiah, read this Deuteronomy 18:18-19, it is a requirement so make up your own mind do your own study).

  • You’re a true believer, 81.5Shekel. Religiously. Just like millions of others in god-only-knows how many religions, and their variations thereof.

    Try not to let that young heart totally dominate the undeveloped head…and vice-versa of course. Moderation in everything, especially at your age.

    Do you owe me any change?

  • are there people out there buying 50 shekel throw pillows with his picture on them? besides his mom, if she still talks to him?

  • If you are actually a Jew, and you have become an apostate, then you are shitting all over our beliefs. Don’t insult my intelligence by saying that you share them. Heretics like you make me want to vomit: you suck up to us and pretend you have our best interests at heart while you plot our spiritual downfall. You are the Uriah Heeps of religion, all smarmy unctuousness and oily condescension masquerading as concern for our welfare. The Torah warned us against people like you.

    Belief in that man and all that entails is, in and of itself, a rejection of the Torah and everything it stands for. I don’t care if you keep glatt kosher and keep Shabbat more strictly than the Chief Rabbi. You’re still a heretic.

    Just accept the fact that you have become an Xian and move on. And if you have to ask why people feel more strongly about Jews becoming Xians than some other kind of heretic, you must be joking. Hersy and apostasy is bad enough, but a Jew becoming an Xian is like a woman falling in love with the man who raped her and murdered her family. Only a Jew with absolutely no pride or feeling of slf-worth could possibly commit so shanmeful a betrayal.

  • so a jew becoming a muslim isn’t as bad? i agree there is inextricably an element of self loathing involved in a jew becoming, well, not a jew, but if they wanna go i say good luck and good riddance. only when they try to take me with them to salvation, then i must go acrimonious on their self loathing wannabe goyishe asses.

  • Uh, yeah. What he said … OK, I really have nothing to say. But I couldn’t leave this post with 69 comments. I thought it was wrong that a blog post about a poor spiritual decision by a guy who made a terrible carreer choice – such a post should not get me all hot and bothered. It was wrong. So now it has 70 comments and not that other distracting number. Just sayin’ is all …

  • I’m thinking I am going to go read some jewsforjudaism.com in order to hone my skills at listening to psychos like 50/60/61 shekel when they invade my sphere. Oh, flurry—nice wording on your posts about faith–beautiful!

  • well i just found out about this guy cuz people at my congregation (yeah, i’m a messianic jew too) were discussing it. strange, i never thought of myself as “vile” and “evil” as one user said…and please let it be known that j4j is an *organization* that mostly seeks to convert jews to christians and put them in churches-hardly the ideals of most messianic jews. anyway, yes, this music is not the quality that i expected, and some of the things on his website (calling rabbinic judaism a modern concentration camp…strange “prophecies”) are questionable and don’t discourage the current attitude messianic jews by people like you…oh well =/

  • i can’t get over how much Jews for Jesus sounds like a Mel Brooks joke. so sad. tell me ronironi, please, what exactly does messianic judaism mean to you?

  • 50 Shekel, We love you and will always be waiting for you to return. Remember: There is always a place for you back in Judaism.

  • in response to ofri:
    what does it mean to me? it’s a broad term to describe people who are jewish and believe in yeshua as the messiah. it covers a wide spectrum of people who have decided to keep true to judaism at varying levels…there are some who have become completely assimilated into churches and neglect almost all jewish practice or identity (such as my grandpa…who i’d actually more call christian) and there are some who keep their beliefs secret all their lives and remain active members of jewish communities (like my rabbi’s mother, who he only found out was a believer when he told her of his revelation.) in fact, there is probably at least one person or family in your very shule that believes. i was actually raised in a messianic jewish home, and i don’t think i realized that there were jews who *didn’t* believe in yeshua until elementary school. now, what are my thoughts on the movement? well, i’m dissapointed and sad on one hand, pleased on the other. i think we are young and a bit confused. and when someone like 50 shekel, who the world can see better than me, uses the word christ like it won’t offend anyone, and denounces all rabbincal judaism, i can’t say i’m proud of him. it’s sad to say that many messianic congregations have become churches except that say the sh’ma and meet on saturday (and i know of one that meets on sunday). on the other hand, since coming to NYC i’ve discovered that it’s not like this everywhere, and there are indeed places where i can express my judaism and my belief in the messiah without having to compromise…and there are plenty of people who feel the same as i do. in fact there are some groups of messianic jews who fully embrace rabbinical teaching…and still some who completely reject it…i’d say i’m in the middle: i take it into consideration and practice what i think coincides with the bible. so, does that answer the question? 🙂

  • In other words, it’s just one big mishegoss, a free-for-all smorgasboard where people decide what they will or won’t keep and what they do or don’t believe.

    I say Saturday, you say Sunday, let’s call the whole thing off.

    Face, it ronironi: you’re an Xian. You’re not a Jew any longer, at least not in any meaningful spiritual sense. And neither are any of the other “messianinc Jews”. They’re apostates and traitors to the Jewish people who have cut themselves off from Hashem.

    You’re Xians. You may be happy, you may be fulfilled, you may feel you are saved, or whatever it is. Fine, I’m glad.

    But you’re not a Jew any longer. Get over it and move on.

    But if you ever free yourself from the death grip of your false religion, you can always come back.

  • ronironi,
    I understand that you were brought up as a “messianic jew” but have you ever questioned that what you are doing may be heretical, impossible to justify with the Torah and basically considered on all levels idolatry?

    With all do respect, you should really contemplate questioning the tenants of your faith and whether they have actual and not just hints, of basis in Torah judaism.

    There is one G-d.

    “See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me”
    Deuteronomy 32:39

    so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no one else. (1 Kings 8:60)

    Then he said, “Tomorrow.” So he said, “May it be according to your word, that you may know that there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus 8:10)

    “For this time I will send all My plagues on you and your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like Me in all the earth. (Exodus 9:14)

    “To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him. (Deuteronomy 4:35)

    “Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. (Deuteronomy 4:39)

    “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! (Deuteronomy 6:4)

    there is no question that G-d rules and created the world.
    does he need a partner? a son??
    did he have a child with a woman??
    wouldn’t that diminish (as if possible) the omnipotence of His oneness and holiness(separation from physicality)

    “Israel is my first born son”(allegorically)
    Exodus

    does a human really need another to enter heaven?
    does a person not get punished for their own sins?
    can you take my punishment for me?
    for my future sins?
    can jesus take my punishment for me?
    if i accept jesus, is that a license to kill? steal? break Shabbat? disregard the Torah?

  • I am not particularly religious AC, but smart enough to know what I don’t know. What about those passages about the coming of a Messiah in the Torah AC? Wouldn’t they conflict with some you’ve list above? If so, isn’t the debate always been about whether Jesus was that Messiah, as he apparently claimed, based on 2nd or 3rd hand written information I understand.

    I personally think most religions have similar themes about the nature of a deity and what he(always a he) expects from them for behavior(obedience). IMO they are just ancient human being trying to explain the unexplainable heaven and earth they found themselves in. These explanations(the myths) by the wise men of the times, as well as practical rules for behavior learned from experience(the commandments), were written down over the ages and called bibles(or what ever).

    An example of practical behavior passed down via a religious rule is eating of pork. Since we now understand what made people die from eating uncooked pork back then, is it really practical any longer to deny yourself an excellent tasting meat? This practical prohibition then is no longer needed now, except for religious(mythical) reasons. Many more examples could be made. I ramble…..

  • jews are funny the thought that you are the chosen people is beyond me. jews and Christians are like Water and mud. Some comprehend some don’t

  • ac- no, i can’t take ur sins away. only god can through the sacrifice of blameless blood. and, no u don’t need another person to enter heaven-u need atonement. if u “accept jesus” u do not have the licsence to do anything, u only have atonement for what u do do. and, yes, i have defintely questioned, and i have come to the conclusion that, no, i am not enganged in idolotry or going against the torah in any way…on the contrary, i am fulfilling it.

  • in response to ephraim- that’s ur opinion 🙂 and no, i will not “move on”…i will not forsake god’s commandments

  • if 50 is going to list a whole bunch of scripture to prove his point, then so will I:
    Genesis 49:10 (if jesus’ father was g-d he doesn’t fulfill this requirement)
    Isaiah 11:12 (Jesus did not accomplish this because after his death the Galoot happened because the Second Temple was destroyed).
    2 Samuel 7:12 – 13 (again, if Jesus’ father was G-d then he doesn’t fulfill the requirements)
    Ezekiel 37:26 – 27 (Xtions believe that the big J will do this when he is resurected. However, jews believe without Moshiach then no one can be resurected. Therefore, not only is it impossible for Jesus to come back (even if he is Moshiach), but it also means Jesus has not yet met all the requirements)
    Micah 4:3 (have you read a newspaper lately?)
    Ezekiel 37:24 (why did jesus’ teach to not follow the whole torah then?)
    I’m sure your quasi-rabbi is pulling out his hair by now. i’m sorry that jews didn’t like your music and “true jews” don’t have anyone else to listen too. However you feel about your people is your business. However, Jesus did not fulfill all the requirements to be the messiah. Maybe some of them but not all of them. Pull yourself together and stop making us look bad. in addition it is bad whenever someone leaves the derech. it doesn’t matter what they turn themselves into. However, they don’t try to bring anyone down with them. Jews who turn into christians do. and by the way, the fact that people in the new testiment have hebrew names in reality doesn’t mean you should follow them. it means they have a hebrew name, and that’s it.

    oh btw it’s funny that you need the new testimate to prove Jesus was the messiah. if he was you’d only need the Torah. but feel free to go on feeling really smart.

    i just listened to your banned from the shul thing. i could not stop laughing. holy crap you have lost it. like hardcore. like you’ve lost it to the point that no one saw that coming. you’ve said it best “nigga please.”

  • Jim R,

    Jews are not prohibited from eating pork, they are prohibited from eating animals that either don’t chew their cud or don’t have split hooves. This includes camels, horses, rabbits, etc…
    The fact that uncooked pork made some people sick seems like a far fetched reason to explain kashrut although it was once proposed as a theory by Maimonides. It certainly didn’t detract the many non jewish cultures both in the middle east and elsewhere from thriving, pork consumption nonwithstanding.

  • ronironi:

    No, you have forsaken the Torah. Just face up to it. You’re not fulfilling anything except the prophecy that in our exile some Jews would be led astray and “worship gods of wood and stone”.

    Can you explain, I mean really explain, why Xians need G-d to die for their sins? And once he’s dead and you eat his body and drink his blood, you’re forgiven anything and everything? How conVENient.

    No wonder you guys want to believe in something like that. G-d does everything for you, even going so far as to die for you so you can get ready-made atonement for anything you do.

    Such a deal.

    But you can include me out.

  • C’mon c’mon. If Moses didn’t write anything down, then you wouldn’t know the Law. Would you know what sin was if Moses hadn’t got it? Also Elohim, is a plural word (note the ‘im’), yes shocker your G-d is one, but a combined one, yes in deed you G-d is echad.

    Shema Yisroel Adonai Elohenu Adonai Echad

    Look there it is Echad. Now go search the Torah and see where this word is used. You’ll note Adam and Eve became Echad flesh. Oh yes two in one, but that’s two, probably better to call Echad as united one. See Numbers 13:23, yes again a bunch of grapes is echad, one. But there is more than one grape on a bunch, no? Also check this out, http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/284/ looks like G-d likes to authenticate His Word in strange ways. Also go through the Scripture and look for uses of the word yachid. This is more one than echad and look for Elohim (you’re talking plurality here) in the Scripture. So ask yourself, why did the Holy Spirit get Moses to write Elohim rather than El and use words that suggest unity. Hmmm. Also didn’t G-d “let US make man in our own image”, wow wow wow, US, US, in OUR image, OUR!!??? Is there an echo in heaven our is the Almighty saying what He means. Angels do not create!! So it wasn’t Angels he was talking to. It doesn’t say in 6 days G-d and His Angels created the Heavens and the Earth. Honestly go back and start at the beginning, read it for yourself, by blindly following what someone else tells you is stupid, read it for yourself and make up your own mind. Also on the issue of a virgin giving birth, I mean I have to admit it is laughable, a virgin, I mean that would almost be as bad as a barren woman, people would laugh (Isaac) at such a suggestion. Also what’s a Xian, is that like Xew, or more like a Xlim. I dunno.

  • In the modern world of today, without Moses, we have a few more Laws than just 10. And yes, they are a SIN to break too. Just ask the punished who lost money, freedom or both.

    So, yes we would have known ‘the laws’ necessary for a stable society without Moses, Shek. Pull yourself together and into the 21St century, for g-ds……uh no, your own sake.

  • “You’re dead wrong”, what a convincing counter point, oh my were you on the debate team? Oh yes I remember that stable society, yes when people would burn their own children to Molech, yes, and now look at society now that the Law is not centre piece as it should be. Increases in the following:
    – Homosexuality
    – Murder
    – Rape
    – Failed Marriages
    – War
    – Abortion (see Murder)
    – The list goes on.

    If it wasn’t for Moses you wouldn’t know the Law, and therefore you wouldn’t know sin. I’m in the 21st century and it’s a disgrace. If you really knew what it meant to be in the 21st century you’d realise the centuries of tyranny before. This is the same law that says homosexuality is just an “alternative lifestyle” well the Nazi’s had an “alternative lifestyle” but it doesn’t make it right!!! You’ll find that countries based on a Judeo-Christian values allow freedom, but now this freedom is being rotted from the inside by the those who feel our G-d given, not man given rights and moral absolutes are “unloving”, “hateful”, etc. You can’t speak out against Islam because that would be unloving, I mean those people who blow up pizza parlours full of kids in Tel Aviv! See Muslims have a culture of killing Jews and Christians, Muhammed slaughtered a village of Jews, cut off their heads and took a nine year old who he later made his wife at twelve. That wasn’t a sin was it? I mean it’s their culture to do this. Look at the Muslim world and tell me that sharia law is just, over a billion people live under this law today. It’s not just Islam, look at China it’s the same tyranny in a different suit. Laws without Moses are laws without G-d and laws without G-d are laws for the rich and powerful who want to dominate and exterminate whenever they want. Man’s law may save you from jail but God’s laws are to save your soul. Please never forget that most laws are derived from the Law, so look at nations who do not know the Law and see the way they have developed, I use Islam as a modern example but you can pick dozens. If Christianity hadn’t of spread around the globe then this planet would be the a nighmare version. You wouldn’t enjoy the security and stability that you do.

  • You know, when some dipshit walks up to me on the street and calls my Mother a whore, I don’t feel the need to engage him in conversation – that would make the notion of my Mom being a whore a debatable issue. For effective counterpoints to all your misguided and innaccurate nonsense, I urge you and all others to a) visit Jews For Judaism and/or b) engage in a course of serious biblical study with a proper Rabbi as opposed to the disstorted cherry picked crap your current Jim Jonesesque teachers are throwing your way. It’s not too late Aviad. Come back to our warm embrace – there’s always room for you at the shabbat table.

  • i really don’t have time to read all of this, but i’ll just give in my two cents on the religious debate…

    Jesus – Messiah but certainly not the Son of God or Christ

    Jesus was the Messiah.

    Sadly, it’s not that simple. Jesus has been sanctified as a savoir. Many have even said he was the son of God. Some have said he was God-incarnate (a version of God in a human form, in the flesh). This is heresy, an innovation of mankind’s inherent weakness. It would be nice to have a savoir, but we must recognize: GOD ALONE is savoir. God did not beget, nor was he begotten. He has no sons. God will come to our world on the Day of Resurrection. It is blasphemy to separate God into a trinity, or to take away from His eternal Oneness in any way.

    Jesus was the Messianic prophet who advocated the worship of GOD ALONE and asked for nothing in return. He was born of an immaculate conception, to the Virgin Mary. Just as Jesus had no father, neither did Adam. Both were created directly by God, and not by semen. He performed numerous physical miracles and gained a following of monotheists. His earliest followers (Messianic Jews) did -not- call him God, or son of God.

    Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in Him who sent me; …For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that His commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as He instructed me.” [ John 12:44-50 ]

    Jesus is rendered powerless by his own tongue! “I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him who sent me.” [ John 5:30 ]

    Jesus said: “My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.” [ John 7:16 ]

    God is utterly unlike man. Jesus was a man. “Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazorean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles, wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well know.”
    [ Acts 2:22 ]

    “…The man who hears my word and has faith in Him who sent me possesses eternal life.” [ John 5:24 ]

    “Whoever welcomes me welcomes, not me, but Him who sent me.”
    [ Matthew 10:40, Mark 9:37, Luke 9:48, & John 13:20 ]

    “…I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and Him you do not know. I know Him because it is from Him I come; He sent me.” [ John 7:28-29 ]

    All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
    [ Romans 8:14 ]

    As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down before him and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?” Jesus answered, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” [ Mark 10:17-18 ]

    ***“None of those who call me ‘Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
    [ Matthew 7:21 ]*** -Christians aren’t going to heaven. their religion is mad-made heresy, grade-A blasphemy. Jesus himself denounces Christianity.

    “…Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” [ John 20:17 ]

    Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that God is one in essence but three in “person,” Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the Gospel, nor did Jesus and his early followers intend to contradict monotheism.
    [ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]

    All those who believe or say that Jesus was God or the son of God will not enter heaven. Jesus was a son of God, as are all of God’s sons and daughters here on earth. The Gospel proves this.

    Ultimately, Jesus was powerless. All messengers and prophets were powerless. Everything Jesus did was willed by God. He preached the worship of GOD ALONE and not the worship of himself. Anyone who recognizes that God is One has nothing to fear. God will abandon those who worship Jesus as either God or son of God on the Day of Resurrection.

    ***thank you for your time. anyone here who wished death upon the Jews will be, without a doubt in my heart, going to Hell. we’re all God’s children. the only people “chosen” are those who CHOOSE GOD ALONE. if you can’t see that, then i hope you enjoy the Hellfire.

    **Shalom/Salam/Peace; God be with you

    *if you’re interested in talking religion, politics, w/e… i’m [email protected]!

    I am not a “Jew for Jesus” btw, I follow the religion of Abraham; monotheism. I worship GOD ALONE. As long as there are humans on this earth, GOD will send us messengers. Jesus was just one of them, reaffirming Torah (Gospel = corrupted, almost entirely man-made) and spreading that only Exodus commandment: love thy fellow.

    I’m a PERSON for GOD. All of these titles (Jews, Christian, Muslim, etc.) are useless. the only religion acceptable to GOD is worship of Him Alone; true monotheism. scriptures don’t make a different. anyone who chooses GOD ALONE has nothing to fear.

  • Hey you know, at ck’s Temple of the Ephemeral Jews, we also have a self-serving made up scripture Newer Testament! Allow me to quote you from Myron 19:48-50 – “Thus sayeth the Lord: I jesteth! Yea though other Gods were inspired by me, I was merely fornicating with your heads. From this point henceforth there is only one G*d, and ck is his prophet. Woe befall anyone who strayeth from the one true path! And enough with that Jesus shit – I never thought anyone would take that virgin-birth story, seriously. I mean, I am the Lord! My power and glory hath no limit! If I wanted some nooky, don’t you think I could do better than some manger in Bethlehem with some maiden who was already betrothed to another? I mean what would you do if you were all powerful and omniscient? A Keira Knightley/Natalie Portman sandwich? Exactly!”

    Now you know the truth. Kindly govern yourselves accordingly or fuck off. The prophet ck hath spoken!

  • one last bit (i read some of this craziness above my message now)… i do not enjoin any of you into a new covenant. the coventant of monotheism brought on by Torah is perfect. never, ever give it up. accepting Jesus was messiah (not GOD!!! NEVER!) does not form a new covenant nor does it betray the Shema. GOD IS ONE, ETERNAL!

    Christianity is a false doctrine. don’t even bother with it, it’s useless. i’ve studied theology long enough to know that the quotes i’ve provided you are just about the best argument for “Christians” out there.

    anyways… there is only ONE covenant acceptable to GOD, and it’s simple. anyone can do it. any descendant of Adam, any human being!

    GOD IS ONE: WORSHIP HIM ALONE.

    that’s about it. it’ll lead you to great happiness and prosperity. most Jews are already doing just that. however, this is for the Jews:

    Talmud = mad-made, don’t follow anything in it that is not in the Torah. example: most kosher laws, kipot, etc.

    First 24 books of Tanach = great stuff, basically all you need. throw in some Tehilim for kicks. 🙂

    if you truly studied the Pslams/Tehilim/Zabur… then you would know: they advocate the worship of GOD ALONE. they’re really nice, too.

    one more thing: Rabbinical Judaism is borderline idolatry. it’s practically intercession / intermediary stuff. you don’t need it. you’re much too smart to need some guy to tell you how to live your life or study the script GOD blessed you with.

    this ideas are not new, and i’d love to discuss them with any of you online. [email protected] for anyone curious. i’m not gunna slap you with a book of mormon either 😛

    like i said: i follow the religion of Abraham. most Jews do, deep down inside, they’re just straying a little (as i once did. i am a former Jew… my my, this just gets stranger by the second! :P)

    ck, that’s pretty funny. you seem like a “good soul” and your defence of judaism is noble. just take it easy though, there’s really no sense in getting angry. you’ll be dead and judged by GOD soon enough, i don’t imagine He’d be impressed by you descending to the level of some people’s ignorance around here.

  • Erm David I hate to say this but you are wrong. Jesus was crucified for blasphemy, why? Because he claimed to be G-d. You should think about it, no stop really think about it. Jesus had to become a man because there is no other man on the earth who was sinless, no man seeks after G-d. God will make himself a sacrafice, as Abraham said it, G-d would have to give up his only begotten (not created) Son. Also ask which prophet was able to raise the dead? Keep counting yep 0, only Jesus could raise a man from the dead. But also Jesus was a man, a normal man can’t raise people from the dead. Unfortunately one of the pitfalls of being a man is to give up G-d powers. Yes Jesus had to command the Holy Spirit do everything his Father required. Sorry but I respect people who deny the Messiahship of Jesus more than those who just claim he is a prophet or great teacher (that’s what cults believe). If you read the New Testament you will find that Jesus is either true or false, there is no in between, I respect the people who have spit venom in this forum more than you. Jesus through his own words made sure that anybody who read his words would not be able to sit on the fence. As sin entered the world through Adam, so sin would be repayed for by man, but no man is sinless except Jesus. Also if G-d has not been here on earth then why does Hosea 5:15, claim that He will return to His place. Return?! This means he must of left His place.

  • More from the book of Myron, this time Chapter 7, verse 12: “Thus sayeth the Lord to his prophet ck: And yea, whilst thou will be surrounded by all manner of addle-minded and lame, fear not for thou hast not been foresaken. Do not gaze upon them, pay no heed to their words, for they are complete idiots. And painfully horrid entertainers.”

    Now you know the truth. Kindly govern yourselves accordingly or fuck off. The prophet ck hath spoken!

  • Yes the Psalms are very nice, now go and read the 2nd one. Honestly ignorance, I’m ignorant, please. What is all that about His King of Zion being installed on the His Holy Mountain. Why does He say “You are my Son…”. I mean Son cannot mean Israel here, because Israel can’t be a King, they are a people, a nation. So whoever this King/Son is he must be important. Certainly not just a prophet, great teacher, or magician. Why does G-d say he has a Son, I know he’s just liar. Oh but G-d cannot lie, it isn’t his nature, so where does that leave us?

  • Nobody has explained to me why the Xians believe that G-d has to die for them and why they have to eat his body and drink his blood to be “saved”. I really don’t understand the need for this ghoulishness and vampirism. Absolutely sickening. And there is absolutely no Biblical (and by that I mean what Xians call the OT; the NT is not part of the Bible, it’s man-made propaganda) justifcation for this crazy and disgusting belief.

    Also, “Elokim” may be plural but so is the Hebrew word for water (“maim”) and many others, so this proves absolutely nothing. When Hashem and moses spoke face to face (“panim al panim”) does this mean tnat Moshe Rabbenu had two faces? I mean, can you count water? And, IIRC, the active verb used with the supposedly plural Elokim is in the singular. So, again, bupkes. Study some freakin’ Hebrew before you try to pull this pathetic shit. I mean, my Hebrew skills are pretty poor but anybody with even a smidgen of knowledge knows this is just a smokescreen to deceive ignorant people.

    You people are, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid. You start out with the belief that the J-man is the Messiah and that G-d is plural, since gentiles of that time already believed in multiple gods anyway, and so you then go back and cherry-pick the Tanach for whatever you can find that will “prove” your point (other than the one on top of your head, anyway). It is incredibly dishonest.

    Look, you believe what you believe. Hashem told us to beware of fasle prophets, and that He would be sending deceivers like you to us from time to time to test our faith. So our Torah tells us to ignore you as a matter of principle. Some lost, ignorant and weak Jews may fall for this crap, but not anyone who really knows anything about Torah.

    So, yeah, what ck said: enjoy your karet. And don’t bother to write.

  • Yeah OK. Well why didn’t you write about Psalm 2. I hear a lot of emotional proclaimations from you but no real meat to your argument. Your argument is a skinny, starving child, if a strong wind came he’d probably get blown away in the wind. A lot of “Torah tell us this” and “Torah tells us that”, well if the Torah says that then why not let the Torah speak for itself. Quote it, please. Your ignorance continues, the body and blood is a memorial of Yeshua, what he has done for us (you too) (Luke 22:19).

    See Isaiah 7:14. Now does this not say he will be called “God with us”.
    Now read Daniel 7:13-14, Daniel is having a vision of the son of man. Notice that the people of the earth will *serve* him. You do not serve nobody but God, no? But Daniel says the whole world will serve this son of man. Who is this son of man. Why does Daniel gets visions of this? The only way this works is if the son of man is somehow a literal maybe spiritual representation of the Most High, look at the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98a, this links the verse from Daniel and the other from Zechariah 9:9. Oh and who is this individual that Jacob wrestles with (Genesis 32:24-30). Here Jacob says he has seen God face to face. He actually wrestled with him as if he were a man. Strange. Again Isaiah 9:6. Now look at this:

    Oz M’lifnai B’reshit:
    “Our righteous Anointed is departed from us; horror has seized us, and we have none to justify us. He has borne the yoke
    of our iniquities and our transgressions, and is wounded because of our transgression. He bears our sins on His shoulder
    that we may find pardon for our iniquities. We shall be healed by His wounds, at the time that the Eternal will bring
    Him anew. Hasten the day when He will assemble us a second time by the hand of the one who shall endure forever.”

    No this isn’t New Testament it’s from a Yom Kippur prayer. Now why does it say this, why as practicing Jew do you recite this? This sounds like Christian talk. Also check out Rabbi Elias here:
    “The world endures 6000 years: 2 thousand before the law, 2 thousand with the law and two thousand with the Messiah” – Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 96b-99a, no kidding. This Rabbi knew Torah. Also Messiah isn’t coming 🙁 Rabbi Rabh in Sanhedrin 97b: “All the predestined dates for redemption (the coming of Messiah) have passed and the matter now depends only on the repentance and good deeds”. Ye of little faith. 🙁 So see the dates are up, if Messiah was gonna be here he’d have been here already and as Daniel points out the 2nd Temple will be destroyed after the Messiah is cut off. So…

    To those who claim that all this is just silly nonsense I’ll let the prophet answer that: Isaiah 55:8 .

    I got an interesting story, it involves a goat, some wool and a High Priest. Oh stuff if, read this http://www.everythingjewish.com/YomK/YK_origins.htm. Now Isaiah put it another way Isaiah 1:18 (remember line upon line, precept upon precept). Now if the sins are forgiven the wool turns white, if they aren’t it stays red. Oh and if you are still doubting blood as atonement check out Leviticus 17:11 and Exodus 12:13. Hmm more Torah 🙂

    Now red or white, red or white, which one is it gonna be…
    lets see:
    “Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves” (Soncino version, Yoma 39b) – Babylonian Talmud

    Open by themselves that couldn’t be linked to:
    The Jerusalem Talmud
    ”Said Rabban Yohanan Ben Zakkai to the Temple, ‘O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said, ‘Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars’ ” (Zechariah 11:1)’ (Sota 6:3).

    I like how the Jerusalem Talmud puts it:
    “Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open” (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]

    Goodnight and Shalom.

  • yea… too bad the New Testament was consolidated/written/edited/CORRUPTED in the 3rd century by power-hungry Romans. and yet GOD retained a little bit of truth, deep within, where Jesus makes it quite clear:

    anyone who calls him Lord/GOD is not making it into heaven.

    enjoy the hellfire, i hope your “son of god” rubbish was worth it 😉

    oh, and about Pslam 2…

    7. I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, “You are My son; this day have I begotten you.

    *You are My son* The head over Israel, who are called “My firstborn son.” And they will endure through you, as is stated concerning Abner (II Sam. 3:18): “for God said, etc., ‘By the hand of My bondsman David shall I deliver… Israel.’” And for their sake, you are before Me as a son because they are all dependent upon you.

    begotten you to be called My son and to be beloved to Me as a son for their sake, as it is stated (II Sam. 7:14) concerning Solomon: “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son.” We find further concerning David (Ps. 89:27) “He shall call Me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’”

    Jesus was not a king. he was one of the billions of sons and daughters who descended to this tiny little planet called earth.

    All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
    [ Romans 8:14 ]

    “…Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” [ John 20:17 ]

    GOD has no son, Jesus makes this clear.

    don’t you find it strange that we (myself and Jews) base our faith on logic and questioning, reason and ONENESS OF GOD whereas you base your faith on manipulating the words of a scripture? hey look, GOD just said “son” and “begotten” in a Pslam! Holy Christ on a Cracker!

    you can’t take it out of context like that. it’s all your damn christians ever do. you base heretic belief (son of GOD bullsh-) on twisted quotes from a scripture that is over a THOUSAND years older than the messenger/prophet Jesus.

    only -cults- believe Jesus was merely a human messenger who advocated monotheism? i guess the 1.9 billion muslims in this world are just one big cult, by your standards.

    at least muslims are monotheist, not a bunch of GOD’s-pseudo-son-worshipping Torah-perverting misguided hippies. merry christmas.

  • OK how do you know these passages are not messianic? There is no neon highlight saying “This passage is messianic”, where does the idea of a messiah come from? I gave a few rabbinical sources there so obviously some Rabbis felt that they were messianic and to be honest I would trust a Rabbi who studied Torah before Yeshua than after, look above it says that the messiah was supposed to come. Genesis 49:10 states that the right to enforce Mosaic law will not depart from Judah(be taken away) until Messiah comes. So these Rabbis knew, they knew the time had passed, but little did they know that in Bethlehem the messiah was here.

    Oh and Islam, monotheistic? You sure, go do some homework on Islam, Al Ilah concatenated to Allah yes just one of the 360 idols of the Sabeans, yes after the Jews and Christians rejected Muhammed he went to the Meccan pagans who loved all their gods, but Muhammed said that “no, this al ilah he is the only god”. See by dissing Yeshua, Muhammed thought the Jews would love him and take on his word (would have worked with this crowd), also early Muslims would pray to Jerusalem until Muhammed was rejected by the Jews then it was strictly Mecca baby!! They would circle the Ka’ba(that black stone at Mecca) seven times, another pagan practice, apparently Abraham built this with his own hands?!(According to Islam) After this they would go to the Wadi Mina and throw stones at the “devil” another pagan practice. Funny enough if you study Allah he has a lot of the characteristics that the Judeo-Christians associate with Satan. Also most of the other pagan trappings of Islam are strictly forbidden in the Torah. Oh and yes Islam is a cult didn’t I make that clear?! Just because you think Allah and YHWH are one doesn’t make it so. Sorry.

    So now go on, hug up to your suicide bomber buddy 🙂 Go on keep warm. Happy Eid.

  • We can see here how somethings in the condition/confusion of man never change, only the nature of the way they disagree about deep-seated beliefs that are not prove-able in any case, words instead of weapons for the most part thank G-d.

    “Imagine no religion too” John Lennon

  • Jim? Wrong lyric, it goes like this:

    Imagine there’s no countries,
    It isn’t hard to do,
    Nothing to kill or die for,
    No religion too,
    etc. etc.

    Just sayin’ Maybe Fifty Shekel can do a techno remix of that classic?

  • David, you keep quoting the New Testament, including the Gospel of John to prove God’s Oneness (which I agree there is One God) and that Jesus is not the prophetic Son of God, but you conveniently left out one of the most important verses of scripture:
    John 3:16:
    For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.

    What would “belief” constitute in your opinion?

  • fifty shekel although confused is nothing but a fake. if you check out his profile and such it is more contradictory than the NT! he claims to have been raised an orthodox jew. he says to have gone to yeshiva and day school. however, in another section he claims to have experienced judaism on “many different levels”. he says he was reform, conservative, and orthodox. who has time for this in 29 years? oh and it says he was trying out orthodoxy because it looked the most jewish (that’s really educated…)! wait! I thought he was raised orthodox though? didn’t he go to yeshiva? but he was reform and conservative too? 50 you’re a fake, no one knows your real story. you’re almost as much of a false prophet as Jesus was. go suck your thumb and hug jesus’ corpse in a corner some where. meanwhile don’t pretend to care about what you would call unsaved jews. punk bitch…

    oh and it’s not our fault that you feel guilty because you used to be in porn distribution! ding ding ding

  • Mc Jujitsu, that’s a Scottish name huh? Howaaarryeee laddy. Hoots man dars juice a loose about this hooose. I used to know a Mc Farnham once. Didn’t you hear Jesus rose from the dead two thousand years ago, his corpse isn’t here (you jackass), Shek would have to warm up to your momma instead. You’re still a Mc Prick mind you. I bet you got red hair and a cool pair of pirate stockings, oohh yeah. 🙂 Mc Shitsu, now fuck off home and walk your faggot dog. Oh wait I know what the Mc thing is, I think its time you went back to work they look busy on the drive thru, I’ll have some Mc Nuggets please. Stick to the dojo dickbreath. Oh and if that Mc is M-C then do something artisticly like drop a lyric or two, it would make my day. Fake!? from a Jewish rapper who thinks he’s a ninja and works in McDonalds. Honestly the world never ceases to amaze me. That clock keeps turning and more and more idiots appear.

  • i bet your unkosher ass would eat at a mcdonald’s wouldn’t you? hey atleast i have my story straight.
    you want some rhymes fine:
    50 shekel thinks he’s a J-E-W/ but who ever knew?/ he get’s his ass wipped by jesus, jihad, and everyone at this forum, who/ has atleast half a brain/ i bet when you were crying in your rabbis room you wished there was cocaine/ the kind you brought with to all the porno shoots/ you know the films of gentile ladies knockin’ boots/ when jews listened to your music they broke the buttons used for mute/ that’s when you started making crazy statements from the New Testement that don’t ever compute/ your pussy music can’t even compare to me/ trying to act hardcore? why don’t you make another Bette Midler Parody?/”
    remember to bench after you eat that double burger bitch

    —-
    OBTW when you take my mcnuggets out of your mouth you might want to get the spear out of your side. you still are fake and you still can’t rhyme, which is why you make shitty techno remixes. no one liked your music when you were a jew, no one likes it now that you’ve gonna crazy and claimed that “Harry Potter has little girls by the clit”. no one likes you not even your mommy. i bet mommas real proud of her son. you can take a magic carpet ride back to the crazy shack you come from. have a nice day. service with a smile right bitch?

    ——-
    wait a second shekel? did you say you want to have premarital intercourse with my mom? i think Jesus would spank you for that one. you naughty, naughty lunatic.

    oh and by the way i can explain christianity in two sentences.
    one:
    Mary was raped.
    two:
    Jesus’ grave was robbed.
    go on crying in your tissues of g-d or whater crazy shit your presently doing. fucking mc-chicken

    ——–

    you know what the funniest thing is though? the wannabe parody artist who couldn’t even think up his own name is telling me to be artistic! i bet even the quasi rabbi at your wannabe shul didn’t even try to baptise you! he was trying to drown your annoying jerry-falwell-wannabe-ass wasn’t he? what’s next fiddy? christians-for-muslims? muslims-for-hindus? hindus-for-buddists? cause the messianic market will only be there for so long! besides you can only go double mur right? oh wait that won’t even happen because you can’t get funded enough to mix your wannabe album! I know, I know, it’s not fair that you became a jew-for-jesus. you could still be raking it in playing bar mitzvahs and stuff for little kids and old people who don’t even know what Hiphop is! I bet it hurts thinking that Jews don’t like your music because your talentless, and J4J only like you right now because you’re a novelty for them. but your time will come. when your novelty wears off they’ll consider you what WE consider you! a no-talent hack who’s an embaressment. so have fun being a novelty who’s only talked about because he’s controvesial! they’ll see you like we do in about a year at most. if not then they’re more stupid then i thought they were.
    now would you like a fry with the shake i just gave you?

  • Yeah that MC is surely for McDonalds, that was a rhyme? You have the cheek to question Shek’s rhymes when you dribbled that out and with some kind of pride. Yep you’re McDonalds material for sure.

    Oh and your summary of Christianity is interesting, honestly if it didn’t say in the Tenakh (check the Septuagint, not the Masoretic that was edited by satanic Rabbi’s who wanted to hide Messiah from the Jewish people). See the Septuagint is a great thing, 72 pre-Jesus Jewish scholars putting the Torah into Greek a much more descriptive language than Hebrew, much more precise.

    Now why did these scholars say that Isaiah 7:14 says virgin not young woman, a young woman will conceive (whoa stop the press this is big news, not that birth isn’t a miracle in itself). I mean G-d gives a sign and it’s a woman conceiving, I mean a sign!?! That happens millions of times a day. It’s hardly a sign. Now if a virgin were to conceive that would be a sign of the power of the Almighty. Now answer that question, why does history say this too. Why does your JPS version not understand some words and yet they can always refer to the Septuagint, because they want to hide the important parts of Scripture because basically it matches too well with the Christian claims of Messiah (oh and the early Christians were Jews by the way lets not forget that). Now go look at the Dead Sea Scrolls, the scroll of Isaiah has chapter 53 smack bang in the middle of it. See this trying to get rid of Isaiah 53 shows a deep satanic plot to hide G-d’s word.

    I mean you trust the same Rabbi’s who try to scrub Isaiah 53 from the Scripture, are they G-d, I guess they are your G-d and you will take the destiny that have for you. Look the Ashkenazic Tenakh is missing Isaiah 53, why why why why why. Obviously because it describes Messiah too well and oh it fits Jesus like a glove. http://students.cua.edu/16kalvesmaki/lxx/
    I apologise for insulting you but now you’re doing it for yourself.

    I have a short rhyme.

    Oh why, oh why, do your rabbi’s have to lie
    Oh why, oh why, do your rabbi’s have to lie

    Shalom

  • i bet you can rhyme better, right?

    go, go, go fiddy you’re a sell out
    go on, go to jesus and throw your kippah out

    you couldn’t even out rhyme the ju-tang clan! and ulike you they never even wanted to be taken seriously! btw you haven’t said anything about lying in your bio. Why? are you scared of people finding out you’re as fake as Jesus? oh btw you ment chumash. that’s the one with the weekly readings. a tanakh is the one in order by book, not torah then haftorah. (wow i thought a yeshiva boucher would’ve known that). if you’re going to criticize something you might want to understand it first. oh and by the way 53 is talking about the nation of israel. not the fake from galilee. have fun crying more “tears of G-d”, bitch!
    oh and any shit you can try to claim for messiah you need the NT (aka new trash) to explain. i can use anything in tanakh to prove jesus didn’t fit all the requirements to be the Moshiach. you on the other hand can only use a source written a couple of hundred years after Jesus. that’s why your faith doesn’t work. but you know all of this since you went to a day school right? by the way which yeshiva did you go to? which day school? (how does it feel to be exposed as a liar?)
    oh one more thing:
    http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/001906.html
    if you’re from a day school how do you explain that?
    if i’m a dick then i’m def. in your mouth ho

    ——–

    are you a fucking idiot? the reason people don’t understand the torah is because it was changed from hebrew! there are things the hebrew hints at that would never even show up on greeks radar! the reason it’s inacurat is because it isn’t in heaven. oh and since you went to yeshiva you know about the courses where you can learn isaiah by memorization don’t you? i guess those satanic rabbi’s haven’t suceeded in their goals yet! stick to bette midler bitch. torah is for people with intellect.

    oh and if you can rhyme so much better, then fine, write a rhyme! i’ll bury your punk ass in a battle bitch! what’s a matter? scared that there is no “wind beneath your wings”! hahaha punk

  • “yes in your mouth ho”, honestly these kids, fuck off home and read Harry Potter you prick shit. Wait Israel is like a tender plant? That will grow up? C’mon your getting very liberal with this now.

    Look:
    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
    Now who is him ———————^
    Israel are the sheep. If they aren’t then who is? The gentiles? Why would G-d give a shit about the gentiles? Notice the word ‘we’ (have gone astray). See Isaiah is a Jew when he says we he means Jews, if you get liberal with the text you could say mankind and that isn’t a stretch.

    “for he was cut off out of the land of the living”
    Now the fact that you are a Jew says that this is not about Israel, because if this was Israel then all the Jews would have had to die.

    Let’s continue,

    “And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.”

    OK now Israel has done no violence? Sorry but that isn’t true. No deceit? C’mon here your killing me this isn’t Israel.

    Let’s continue,
    “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”

    Now when did Israel justify many? C’mon I’m waiting c’mon, tick tick tick. Errrr NEVER!!!

    “Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

    Now when did Israel pour out it’s soul unto death for the sins. Now Israel is numbered with the transgressors, so Israel is part of the world, OK but Israel does not have a soul, that’s pantheistic bullshit, each individual has a soul, not a nation.

    I’m back off to day school, where they actually try and teach me the truth. See truth is a funny thing because what is not true falls into the category of a lie, they are bi-polar opposites. Keep up that rapping shit kid, I’m sure you’ll be big someday. If not I always can send a few bucks your way for cleaning my car (but you’re so good I won’t hold my breath).

  • Yeah I got the whole people are Israel again it still doesn’t fit, no matter how hard you try to shoehorn it on. You shoehorn this passage and then the rest is gonna need shoehorning. See if you decide what should be liberally interpreted and what should strictly be interpreted you lose the lot. See now you could say that Moses didn’t free the Israelites, he merely opened their minds, and the bondage of their minds were freed. See that sounds stupid, but this is bascially what you are doing with Isaiah. Well lets use another, see did Daniel’s friends really get thrown into the fire? No this is just a metaphor for the interrogation they got from Nebuchadnezzar. See what happens when you get liberal with the text. G-d created the heavens and earth in 6 days. This means six distinct eras. Not days. Oh and again in but Exodus 31:17. well G-d meant eras again, you know because G-d doesn’t quite know what to say, I mean He is only all knowing. See it just doesn’t work. 🙁

    Yeah I got a brand new Datsun Sunny, oh yeah you want that shit. Nice chrome finish. Me and my cru be rollin in dis shit. I had to replace my Datsun Cherry cos the bumper got a scratch, see I’m rollin’.

    Oh and learning Isaiah by memory is useless if you don’t understand it, I know a lot of French crap but I don’t understand it. A parrot can learn some English, “Who’s a pretty boy then, not MC Jujitsu, he’s too fat” but the parrot doesn’t know what he’s saying, he’s just repeating what Mc Jujitu’s fans say behind his back.

  • hey, shek i hate to make you sound (more) stupid, but lies are not the bipolar opposite of truth. i think you meant to say polar opposite. oh and atleast my fans like me for my artistic merrit. hell your fans don’t bother telling you that you’re a joke to them. i’m sure some fucked up little bastard in sweden thinks you’re legit, but like i said they’ll wise up. oh and my argument is that they don’t cut out any of Isaiah. and don’t lecture me about shoehorning either, the whole New Trash was concocted a hundred years after Jesus’ death. so you can make up whatever shit you want. oh and btw try explaining to me how Genesis 49:10 fits Jesus. say it with me now: IF- JESUS’- DAD- WAS- G-D- WHICH- IS- NOT- POSSIBLE- THEN- JESUS- DOESN’T- MEET- THIS- REQUIREMENT. and last but not least i can loose weight you’ll still be a mentally unstable ass who lost his whole fanbase. not because he became a J4J but because they found out he had no talent. your story has more loopholes than a republican tax code. stick to what you do best. shitty techno covers of shitty songs. hell i really appreciate you wanting me to do better though. i mean not everyone can be as popular as the king of Heeb-Hop! hahahhaha fucking joke

    ——

    oh and while where talking about Isaiah let’s bring up 11:1. he doesn’t fit that for the same reason. yep, while your driving around in your chromed out car bumbing blondie, bette middler, or whatever other crap you listen to… just remember a couple of things:
    1. you follow the ultimate false prophet.
    2. you were the worst parady of parady music ever
    3. the story you’ve given about yourself to the world is completely full of loop holes.
    4. you wanted to be taken seriously and you weren’t even by your own people (did that hurt 🙁 ?).
    5. even if you were serious, you were the worst rapper ever. you embaressed all of us with your horrible, lack of skills.
    6. no matter how serious you are, you can’t even muster the artistic strength to come up with your own name.
    7. even if i make 5 cents from rap, i’ll have an honest nickle more than your porno-selling-ass ever did.
    fake 🙂

    ———

    oh btw isaiah 11:1 doesn’t work for jesus for the same reason. so when your riding in your nice fancy car, just remember a couple of things:
    1. you were never talented.
    2. no one likes your crappy paradies.
    3. you follow the ultimate false prophet
    4. if i earn five cents from rap it will be one honest nickle more than you will ever make.
    5. you wanted so desperately to be taken seriously and no one ever did. hell your own people were embarresed by you. your family won’t even let you bring up G-d at their simchas
    6. if i’m going to hell so is your mommy- which brings me to my next point- i believe in a G-d who judges every body by two sets of laws. for goyim like you there’s the seven laws of Noach. for jews like me there’s over 600 commandments. but we’re all equal in that we’re judged the same way. you believe in a kind loving G-d that will send your own mother to eternal hell fire just because she didn’t eat a cracker and drink some wine. so keep being insulting little man no one here believed in your cause to begin with. i’m sure they don’t now that your showing your true colors though. so go hug your quasi rabbi and go to mcdonalds and pretend your living for G-d. i’m sure you believe he talks to you anyway. punk

    —————-

    hey shek, Devarim 29:17-20 Devarim 13:1-6
    and this one’s for you and Jesus together-> Devarim 13:7-12
    oh and btw on that bat mitzvah story thing you sound like you’re drunk.
    btw, i was wondering why it’s okay for you to use the n-word? is that why you took down that “banned from the shul” thing on your website? I’m sure Jesus loves how you used the n-word.
    one more thing, maybe if you didn’t take down your website so damn much you could afford a new car. oh and maybe instead of begging people for charity on your website you should just trade in that real expensive car. maybe then you could afford the mixing for your album. i mean Yeshua Lo’Moshiach isn’t okay with exploitation is he? i mean, let’s get real shek, you’re leading a serious double life: on one hand you were raised orthodox, on the other you’ve been reform, conservative, and then you were trying to become orthodox, for the smartest reason ever (they look the most Jewish). on one hand you went to a yeshiva and maybe even day school, on the other hand you didn’t even know why the Jews don’t believe in Jesus. on one hand you need soooo many donations, on the other hand you have a really expensive car all chromed out and everything! which hand is it shek? maybe i should just use both of my hands and bitch-slap your punk ass! you’d like that wouldn’t you? you like to pretend your the victim of the mean old rabbi’s! that’s how you manipulate people into believing the fake shit you throw at them! so go on! make my day! it’s obvious you can’t rap worth a damn, or else you’d stop making shitty techno music. it’s obvious the only thing you have to fall back on is a flimsy, wannabe messiah who died and who’s grave was robbed. so go on feeling sorry for yourself. keep on closing down your website. it entertains us all!
    this fat boy eats cup cakes like you for breakfast, bitch.

  • Folks, this is terribly boring. You can quote verses till you’re blue in the face. Very simply, Jewish tradition has no room for Jesus as a messiah and never did. That’s why there was a breakaway sect calling themselves Christians that evolved into the religion. Happens all the time – look at some of the Lubavichers today.

    At least most of us agree that the music leaves something to be desired.

  • you know you’re right. let’s talk just about fifty. why is he a complete fake? why is his story so contradictory? why does he ask for more money from his fans when he can already afford a great car? …you’re right this is boring…

  • You know how when an ex-girlfriend just hates you soooo bad because they used to love you sooo much(burgers don’t count fat boy!!). This sounds like MC Jujitsu, you must have loved shek so much and you sound so hurt that he “left the flock”, well he doesn’t want to go off the cliff. Really Jujitsu get over it, you’re like a broken record, crying “oh shek you did me so wrong, shek how could you, everything we ever had was a lie, you never loved me!!!”. Honestly dry up you wet fuck.

    I’m not even going to talk Yeshua here no more, it’s obvious my problem(Isaiah 6:8-10). Oh and outreachjudaism.org, man when you need organisations like this it just shows that people aren’t buying the “official” rabbi line no more.

    I didn’t even have to look at your myspace profile, I knew you were a fat fuck. You can lose weight if you stop comfort eating because of the pain of losing shek. I mean “The Chosen MC”, more like the “The often overlooked MC, until he bumps into someone or trods on their toe the fat fuck”.

    Hey and don’t you listen to anyway non-black music? For heavens sake sheks fake well look at you, you wanna be black!! “er er I’m Jewish and I don’t wanna be er Jewish, er sorry I mean fake, I just wanna be er black, er I mean Jewish”. Take a look in the mirror(s) first buddy before you start going around calling people fake.

    Zech 12: 10 , check it out.

    If you look up at my previous comments you will also note that my fake Messiah came around the time you were expecting your real Messiah, yep your Messiah missed an important date in Jerusalem, oh yes (Oh and I have a certain guy who’s really Jewish called Daniel, you should go read his prophecies it might shut your fat mouth up, chapter 9:26, pinpoints that Messiah will come and be killed before the destruction of the 2nd Temple). So sit around and wait for your two Messiahs (two Messiahs? rabbi please). So how will there be two Messiahs, come on Joseph and David?! C’mon this is bullshit, this is side stepping. Now by not accepting the Daniel prophecy you invalidate all your Holy Scripture, see if you say that parts are wrong then you can’t have it both ways. It’s true or false. If you say “well we weren’t good that’s why Messiah didn’t come” then you make G-d to be a liar and you are a blasphemer. It’s not a pick and fucking mix buddy (I’m sure you’ve had a few of those). Why do you try and keep the Law but yet do not believe the Prophets, what’s the point? Isaiah 53:1. Looks like you don’t believe buddy, well good luck I hope you take refuge in Edom and do not die before the King returns in all His Glory. But before this you will have to do what Zechariah 12:10 before he does.

  • mc jewjistu or whatever you call youself lets meet I’m a faithful person that would be happy to meet up with yu and show you some faith in a nice way lets me in brooklyn and all show what faith i have for Jesus. It’s not an empty threat lets meet and see whos faith saves them from death. all i can say all have you head in a plastic blag floating in the bay . No im joking. lets meet

  • Dude, relax, you sound a little, uh, insane.

    When somebody gets this defensive, one can only wonder why. Sheesh. You aren’t going to convince anybody here (I bet most of us stopped reading long ago). Instead, why not use all this creative energy to write some new songs or something?

  • Mc jewjitsu please lets meet and see whos aith saves them i will personally pay for your taxi so what ya say lets meet .lets battle . not in a freesyle way but in heat and lets see whos head goes rolloin down da street

  • First of all Mr. Messianic Fuckwad, stop with the long nicknames with underscores. Just call yourself “mcjujitsu slimfast king” and that will be fine. Secondly, MC Jujitsu may be a bit heavy, but that’s in keeping with a well established tradition in hip hop. Heavy MCs aint nothing. I would of course urge him to lose a little weight, but still. MC Jujitsu lay down the beats on Fifty Shekel. What a little bitch! Couldn’t take the heat from MC Jujitsu (love the nic btw) and rather than turn the other cheek like a good little christian boy, he responded in kind using foul language and whatnot. Thus was MC Jujitsu’s point proven – Aviad Cohen is a fucked up little fake ass bitch who is an attention whore. He’s about as Christian as my ass and even less entertaining. MC Jujitsu made fifty shekel his little bitch!

    That having been said, Aviad, we still love you and worry about you. Come back to us. There’s always room at the Shabbat table for you.

  • for the record i don’t want to be black either. half the artists in my profile are jewish hip-hop artists. you should check them out. shek believe it or not i never thought you were talented. i was angry when you first came out because you were wack and didn’t deserve your fame. i knew you were bad for jews. oh and it’s okay that i’m fat because when me and your mom are burning in hell together, we’ll look about the same size. shout out to CK and love to all my Jews reading this. peace

  • This interchange has got to be put to music…or maybe even a sitcom. Damned entertaining. Thanks Shek and MC. You’re a hell of a lot more alike than different. Nothing a good drunk together couldn’t fix….uh, on the other hand forgot about the religious thing. Oh never mind….

    How about a stand-up comedy act. Great material….sctick!

  • Yeah the fire burns but it doesn’t consume, remember you gonna be spending eternity there. Hope you got a good dentist (actually after all that sugar you should go visit him). By the way I’m not 50shekel as I said previously I wouldn’t come to this brood of vipers if I were shek. On this point I’m leaving this, because obviously shek’s rapping skills have nothing to do with me, but if you’re looking for a personal trainer drop me a message. Good luck with trying to be black and all that, I mean they (blacks) will not accept you as one of their own, but hey you can always go and live with Jacko and Uri Gellar, they’ll be more than spoons getting bent, Shamooon . Owwww.

  • i don’t understand how we’re similar. he was nothing but a parody act. he used yiddish and stuff to make corny jokes. all around he was a novelty act and a gimmick. if you’re saying I’m the same thing then just say it. I don’t think i am but you’re entitled tp your opinion. oh and i can loose weight, you’ll still be a no talent hack fifty. it’s really sad, you’re fake and untalented. no one with a brain will ever view you differently. will be laughing at you from the world to come :-). last complaint then i’m done with you. you have no right to say i’m trying to “act black” when you can’t even think up your own name. chrissakes your name is 50 Shekel and your telling me not to act black. i tell you what though if i need to stop acting black then you need to stop calling yourself a Jew. you are a christian with a made up story. sorry have a nice day 🙂
    peace i’m out

  • Yeah I thought it was around dinner time, see ya Jushitsu. You couldn’t rap a box son, honest. I bet your trousers are round your knees, c’mon don’t deny it, I bet you wear a pair of air force ones and a stupid hat sideways :p I bet you got a stupid bit of ‘bling’ too. C’mon. Admit it.

    For the final time I am NOT 50shekel so your 50shekel jibes are like water of a ducks back. So waddle on back down to your “ghetto” try not to fall over your clown trousers and hit the bagle shop son. You can lose weight, but not until you get over the whole shekel thing, I mean emotional problems can lead to over eating and depression. I know you’re hurting now but in a few weeks/years you’ll ask yourself what you were so bothered about. See this love for shekel thing it’ll pass and you’ll find yourself another Jewish rapper that you can put your love to, I just hope he doesn’t hurt you like that Shekel did. Honestly you and your girls should go out for the night, go on go wild. Remember Food is not a substitute for Love, neither is alcohol or drugs.

    GET OVER IT!!!

  • Sorry,

    I can’t go and leave this like this. I’m sorry for insulting you and making remarks about your weight and insulting your style of dress. On this note I am no longer going to make posts to this story and want to spend my time doing something more productive than insulting MC Jujitsu and defending my faith (the latter which I will always do but not here). Again I am not 50 shekel so your feelings regarding him are between you and 50 shekel.

    Shalom and all the best.

  • let me say this one more time for you:
    50 SHEKEL HAS NO TALENT, WHICH IS WHY I NEVER LIKED HIM. I have never thought of him as anything more than a gimmick. leave it be. now if you want to stereotype me because i like rap music go ahead. it just makes you look like a prick. oh and unlike 50 shekel i wear my yarmulke. so wearing a side ways hat is not my thing. i do sag in my baggy pants, and i’m not ashamed of this. i’m not ashamed of how i talk. i never lied about my story either. 50 Shekel did though. you like 50 shekel fine. that means you’re not a manipulative little lying prick. you’re just a stupid shit who believes in him. oh and maybe i’d be hurt if shekel was talented and switched sides. but i, like the rest of my people, never took him seriously. that’s why he converted. he was hurt that no one took him seriously. oh and if you’re a better rapper then please write something back. i’d love to respond and humiliate you.

  • Rap sucks anyway, so just how good can you make it? Move to the Neil Diamond post. This ones getting long and redundant, but still entertaining….the rappers, not the lyrics. 🙂

  • Come on, quit or get a new song. This is getting tired and old. I apologised and offered an olive branch, now I still have to listen to your tirade of abuse?! Good luck, because your attitude speaks volumes. Shame your gonna have to swallow that pride and kiss ass to get a record deal.

    I have to agree with Jim R (hey is the sky falling?!) but rap is just crap with a silent c at the front. It’s just used to make society degenerate and glorify drugs and out-of-control sex. If this is what you want to bring to the Jewish community than G-d help your community. If you ever rapped about anything positive and helpful for people record labels wouldn’t want to know you. It’s like Marilyn Hanson in rock, it’s all shock factor talent comes in a shocking last. I wonder if G-d would want to listen to your music? Yeah I thought so.

  • Wow. I just read the last 50 comments in this online Bad Jewish Rap vs. Terrible Jewish Rap war. And I can’t get over how redundant it all is.

    What does it for me is that you idiots quote Scripture “Read Psalm 2 Bitch!” instead of violent, manic threats, a la Tupac and Biggie “I’ll pull out my 44 and make sho all your kids don’t grow.”

    Personally I’d love to see an 8-Mile freestyle rap between you two, and see who could recite more verses from the Old Testament to (de)legitimize Jesus as the actual Moshiach. Jim, Middle, ck, we’d get front row tickets!

    And now, the always essential signature: Y’all are just a bunch of fake ass bitches, bitches. [Bitches].

  • I feel the need to defend not only myself, but rap music as well. to start off with, i am not a gangsta rapper. i do not rap about sex. i do not rap about shooting people. i do not rap about selling drugs. if someone raps about this i think that it is an important part of a greater puzzle that can be used in order to stop the problems of the inner city. rap, however, is not only limited to the inner city. According to Afrika Bambaataa when rap started out you could use any record out of the crate you had. therefore, any music can be a part of Hip-Hop as a whole. I hold that music is a reflection of the culture it comes from, and therefore any culture can add to rap and Hip-Hop in general. rap is too extensive to narrow down into one sub genre. rap is not a way of bringing negative things into one’s own culture or subculture. it is a way of exposing it.
    now, if i threatened fifty with violence (which i did not do in my rhyme about him), then it is because he causes me such severe rage. it is enraging to me that he would go so far as to say that my religion and people is an evil plot by satan. it is enraging that he signs things in other names to make it seem like he has a fan base. it is annoying to me he tries to use his story (which is completely made up) in order to manipulate people out of Judaism. i would also like to point out that if i use harsh language like “bitch” etc, then it is because i use harsh langauge. not because i am trying to posture and be something i’m not. I like rap music and want to express myself through it, and a major part of “me” is my jewish identity. I’ll say this more clearly. I am not a gangster. I’m not ashamed of that. i do not believe that being a gangsta is the only thing to rap about. lastly, i would like to point out i only post with one alias. i am not trying to lie to myself and others that i have more, or less support than i really do. is fifty as honest? has he ever been?

    oh you’re right fifty it is harder for artists to get record deals if they don’t sell out. you wouldn’t know about that would you?
    go go go boychick… hahahhahahahahahahhah

  • Man here comes the broken record bit. I am NOT (yes as in NOT) 50shekel.

    Well sorry but you’re now dissing me, I have been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder (shut up horace I’m on the phone!!!) Sorry again. Notice your bigging up of rap but still it’s form over substance, nobody wants to be Jay-Z because he raps, they want the money, the women and the drugs. I’m sure you’re not in it for any of that, if not you’d only rap at home and maybe with friends (and not for money, because that would be selling out). But I know you don’t have dreams of becoming that mainstream Jewish rapper that everybody loves. The rapper that does Judaism proud!! Puts heeb hop on the map. C’mon your motives are like an elephant in my living room, unmissable buddy (and hogging the sofa, and sitting on the remote too). So don’t give me that “oh it’s jus 4 da luv, me and my peeps like to lay some shit down, you know jus 4 da crew ya know, our joints be bangin” because if you got the chance you’d sell your soul for it. Oh and please telling me hip hop is a music of peace is as hypocritical as saying that islam is a religion of peace. Again form over substance. By their fruits you shall know them.

  • listen i’m not here to justify me rapping. i like doing it and wouldn’t mind getting paid. however, i’m done with this. it’s going nowhere. have a good life

  • sigh…can’t we all be friends =/…i’ve got jewish friends here in brooklyn who don’t think it’s such a big deal that i believe…they think i’m a bad, silly jew, yes, but still a jew…oh and i’m going to burn in hell for 11 months, apparently…

  • Shekel’s “turn” is extremely disappointing. I was a semi-“fan” or whatever you want to call it. The shock of what he has done has worn off but what he did still disgusts me. Pretty much nothing is worse than a Jew who does what he did. Truly.

  • Roni, you’re not a Jew. You’re a Christian. Perhaps your friends think you’re a bad, silly Christian.

    We all make choices and you’ve made yours. Have some self-respect and acknowledge that you’ve converted to Christianity. You’re making a lot of Southern Baptists really and truly happy if that makes up for the loss of support or recognition among Jews.

  • middle-i am choosing to have self respect and, more importantly, respect for god, therefore will not forsake my jewish identity or his commandments, sorry. and speak for yourself; not for them…they do in fact consider me a jew…and even if they didn’t it wouldn’t change anything.

  • Go middle! That is tellin’ it like it is.

    “Aviad’s” web site gets more and more ridiculous every time I check. This guy has got some serious issues. I am embarrassed that I was once a “fan” of his. Oh my G-d. Ridiculous, but not funny.

  • i’m definitely not in the majority. messianic jews make up about 2% of jews worldwide, and if u mistakingly consider us christians, we are an even smaller minority.

  • Not mistakenly but correctly. You believe Jesus is god, therefore you are Christian. You are certainly not Jewish. As a Christian, even if you wish to see yourself as a minority. You may represent a minority of Christians who consider themselves Jews, but you remain part of the majority Christians.

  • i guess it makes u feel more comfortable to label me that. yet, even if i’ve been “led astray,” a person can’t escape being jewish-it’s blood. according to the law u probably agree with (which i don’t, but u do, so let’s just play) if ur mom’s jewish, ur jewish, even if u’ve been raised atheist all ur life.

  • ronironi, there’s a big difference between just not doing mitzvot and actively being an apostate. In one case you are not doing something you’re supposed to do (passive) and in the other you are doing something that is forbidden (active).

    This may be too much for your brain to fathom, but once you cut yourself off from the Jewish people by actively becoming a member of an idolatrous religion (in this case “idolatrous” means a religion that a Jew is forbidden from practicing, which means any religion other than Judaism), you are subject to what is called karet or spiritual excision. Your soul is no longer part of the Jewish people. The fact that you were born to Jewish parents is rendered meaningless. You can no longer claim membership in the Jewish nation. By rejecting the covenant, you have, in a sense, burned your passport and denied your citizenship. Blood is no longer of any value. Similarly, when a gentile, regardless of his “blood”, chooses to convert and accept the covenant with G-d, he becomes a member in good standing of the Jewish people, just as though he had never been a gentile.

    This is the spiritual reality of being a Jew. It is not just “blood” (which is a Nazi concept anyway).

    You are an apostate, with all that entails. Until such time as you repent your sin, you are no longer a Jew in any meaningful spiritual sense.

    However, once you do tshuva and repent, you can come back. But until that time you are no longer one of us.

    And if you want to learn the punishment for Jewish idolators, just read Deuteronomy.

    And learn to spell, would you?

  • if i was an idolator, then what ur saying would be true, but i don’t believe i’m engaged in “a religion a jew is forbidden from practicing” (remind me, where in torah does it says that a jew is forbidden to believe in the messiah?)…on the contrary, it’s my belief that i’m not only practicing judaism, but am following the god who judaism worships more completely.

    oh and i apologize for my spelling mistakes…i didn’t realize they’d cause such trouble for u that u’d feel it neccessary to bring them to my attention…or were u just trying to insult and belittle me?

    but thanks for giving me the perspective of those who believe i *am* idolitrous (sp, sorry). tonight i plan on mentioning to my school’s chabbad rabbi that i’d like to talk with him sometime. my friends in the campus group i participate in, which he teaches and has over for shabbat weekly, know about my beliefs, so i feel like he’s the only one they are still hidden from. i’m eager to finally be open and talk about it but i’m also pretty intimidated… well we’ll see how it goes 🙂

  • ronironi, if you simply believed that that man was the messiah in a Jewish sense, that is, a human king who would 1) redeem the Jewish people from foreign oppression, 2) re-establish Jewish independence in Israel, and 3) usher in a world-wide reign of peace and justice where everyone would recognize G-d, then you would simply be mistaken, since that man did not do any of those things. But you would not be an idolator, necessarily.

    However, if you believe that the Messiah is a kind of demigod who is part of a triune god, who dies and rises from the dead and who can “save” people from sin and damnation if they believe in his divine power in a certain way, that is idolatrous and is something that is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to believe. If you believe that, keeping every single mitzvah of the Torah is completely meaningless.

    If you believe that that man is G-d or divine in any sense, with divine powers of salvation due to his death and resurrection, that is avodah zara, or “strange worship”. You do not necessarily have to bow down to a statue to be an idolator. For a Jew, forbidden worship is anything that takes the Jew away from a pure belief in G-d. Xian belief ascribes divine powers to that man, giving him the power to save peoples’ souls from death if they believe in him. This not only ascribes divine powers to a human being, which is forbidden because only G-d has such powers, but it puts an intermediary between G-d and man, which is also idolatry.

    If you try to solve this intellectual conundrum by simply saying that that man actually was G-d, then that is absolute proof that such a belief is idolatrous. A man cannot be G-d, nor can G-d be killed. It is nonsense.

    I urge you to speak to your Chabad rabbi and tell him what you really believe. He should be able to save you and bring you back to Torah before it is too late.

    Good luck.

  • Shalom , and Shavua Tov, to all. Roni, I do hope you speak w/ a Chabad rabbi. All the best. We really are waiting for your return. Chabad helped us learn. So did Jews for Judaism and Outreach Judaism. I remember years ago telling the rabbi, ”Help me sort this out, please. I have so many questions.” I told him I was going to a messianic group and and also a conservative temple. I told him I never rejected Judaism, I never learned it because I went to a catholic school and secular universities before finding the messianics. The messianics woke up some jewish memory in me that the churches had not reached but there were too many conflicts in messianic doctrine. The rabbi was very understanding. I am the daughter of intermarriage. Uncertain of what to believe, I studied many religions and have been an observant Jew now since 1988… like my maternal grandmother. My husband, once ordained as a Baptist minister, had Jewish relatives in his background and after much study he converted to Judaism. We both visited and studied a little in Israel too, thank Gd.. life changing. We are not alone. We met many Jews who returned to the faith as well as many children of Noach who converted to Judaism. If HaShem in His wisdom made one Jewish from birth, doesn’t it make sense to honor Him and really investigate what that means before even considering any other religions? Our people gave up their lives to know and serve Gd as Jews . Gd gave us a remarkable heritage. Judaism has a spiritual strength and meaning to life we found nowhere else. And , by the way… real Jewish music is awesome. take care…
    Rachel

  • ah, good news. i told the rabbi and he said that in order for me to be a true idolator i’d have to have studied the entire talmud and rejected it…now, i don’t personally agree in that definition of idolatry, but at least that puts me in the clear. yes, ur still a jew, he said. the jews are like the letters on the ten commandments, engraved forever, but they can get a little dusty, hard to recognize. he equated me w/ a guy in the group who told him he was gay…well, whatever. he thinks that with a little education over the next two years in school, i’ll see things his way, and that i’m always welcomed.

    so now i’m more comfortable in my messianic judaism than i’ve been in my entire life. jews are accepting me as jewish, regardless of whether they think my beliefs are valid or even right. many of you may think this is dangerous, i think it’s wonderful. i’m going to be living w/ 3 orthodox girls of various levels of observance next year, and not a single of them cared that i believe what i do, as long as i kept the kitchen kosher, observed shabbat laws, etc…one of them even finds me inspirtational (the other, maybe heretical, haha, but accepts me nonetheless).

  • Roni, you are not Jewish and no rabbi – Reform, Conservative or Orthodox – would consider you a Jew unless you misrepresented information about your belief in Jesus as Christ. It’s simple Roni, you are a Christian. It’s a fine faith and you should embrace the changes in your life. But remember, there is always room for you to return to the fold if you so wish.

  • it must be said tho…comfort is not what gives me confidence in my beliefs…it’s just a nice change of scenery from the middle school days of “ur a christian and that’s the end of it” oh wait those are these days too according to this website…

  • It’s not just this website, Roni. You are not Jewish.

    By the way, I take little pleasure in telling you this. I feel a little sad for you because I know the Christian world does not fully accept you. So you really are stuck in the middle.

  • middle, why are u speaking for him? i told him “i believe in yeshua.” he was shocked and said “i thought u were a spiritual individual, but i didn’t see that one coming…” ur statement saying no rabbi would consider me jewish is incorrect. sorry, but the man’s a rabbi, and the man did.

    na, the christian world accepts me a lot more than the jewish world-they just misunderstand me. they don’t understand why i still believe jews are obligated to follow torah and judaism’s customs, they don’t understand why i think it matters what day the sabbath is and why i keep it like i do, or why i don’t celebrate christmas and easter, or why yeshua isn’t the center of everything that goes on in our service, or why i don’t ever pray to him, etc etc…but they treat me with love, while jews, until college, have mostly treated me w/ contempt

  • While I agree with what Ephraim wrote, I would take exception to what I perceived to be an implied ease by which one is “cut off” from the Jewish people. Just as it is difficult for one to join the Jewish people, it is not an automatic or trivial thing for one to be “cut off”. Though that term is used in the Torah a lot, my understanding is that the Talmud mitigates the severity and scope.

    There are three types of transgression which are considered the most grave as per Rambam: murder, sexual transgression, and idol worship. There’s no ‘auto-excommunication’ for a Jew who commits murder or a sexual transgression, so why would there be one for idol worship?

  • ronironi, it is not surprising that you interpret the Chabad rabbi’s lack of censure with acceptance. This kind of spiritual smugness is a common Xian trait. Chabad’s job is to try to eventually get you to see the errors of your ways. So the rabbi is going to be nice in the hope that you come to your senses. When he says that in order to be a real idolator you have to examine all of the Talmud then reject it, all he is really saying is that you are too much of an ignoramus to be a real idolator, and so the punishment of karet (spiritual excision) does not apply. However, you are still worshipping an idolatrous religion but you are just too poorly informed to be punished for it, that’s all. Since I am not a Chabad rabbi, however, I don’t feel any particular need to treat you with kid gloves.

    Do you think that being Jewish is some kind of “Get Out of Jail Free” card? That you can believe anything you want and do anything you want and everything is OK because you’re Jewish, and we’re, like, the Chosen People, which means, like, G-d loves us no matter what we do, right? I’m OK with G-d because I’m Jewish, right?

    Wrong.

    You obviously don’t understand what I have been trying to say, so let’s try this again:

    It is true that one’s physical identity as a Jew is not something that can be erased. However, it can be held in abeyance. If your parents are Jewish, you are a Jew and nothing physically can be done to change that.

    However, you are confusing a physical accident, which is not that important (except for Kohanim and Leviim, maybe) with a spiritual reality, which is the really important aspect of Jewsihness. To the extent that you are a member of an idolatrous religion (and you are, trust me), you cannot be recognized as a member of the Jewish community with all of the rights and responsibilities that entails. You cannot be counted in a minyan, for example. Your excision from the Jewish people is a spiritual excision. Your soul is no longer part of the jewish coimmunity of souls. Physically, you may still be a Jew. I mean, I assume your foreskin didn’t grow back. But it just doesn’t really mean that much when you come right down to it.

    As I have stated above, this physical aspect of Jewishness is meaningless so long as you are an Xian. On a spiritual level, the level that counts, you are no longer a Jew.

    Finally, the worst part of all of this is the fact that you have the chutzpah to think that you can worship a dead man-god hanging on a stick and still consider yourself a Jew. Don’t pat yourself on the back too hard.

    Are you male or female? You say you’re going to be living with 3 Orthodox Jewsh women next year (college dorm, I assume). If you’re a man, there’s no way that any Orthodox girl would dream of rooming with you.

  • middle, use the word “most”…mustn’t be so extreme now :). i get ur point tho… i’m speaking of one individual. yes, i know that most don’t consider me a jew. even the state of israel has prohibited messianic jews from making aliya if they know about it (though most get thru anyway)

  • ephraim-yes, i do realize that that is exactly what the rabbi was thinking. he believes i’m too uneducated to know any better and thinks that with a little learning i’ll see things his way (i am eager to learn, though i suspect it will strengthen my beliefs not diminish them). no, i don’t think being jewish is a get out of jail free card…i’m “ok” with god because i seek him with all my heart, i follow him and his commandments (though u may disagree-this is what i believe i am doing), and i love him and others.

    so, don’t consider me a member of the spiritual jewish community, i don’t care what you or anyone thinks, and i won’t abandon my beliefs so that i can be accepted. i find my indentity what matters-how god sees me, and my security in the fact that i have obeyed him and continue to.

    i am female, silly. 🙂

    a troll? why a troll?? O_o i don’t get it…

    is “troll” a term for something else? the only images i’m getting are little toys with pink hair…

  • OK, roni, I guess you’re just stupid and full of yourself, then. Like I said, typical J4J narrishkeit to think that you can turn your back on G-d and think you still are following the commandments. You may truly think that is what you are doing, but the only problem with feeling that way is that you are wrong. This isn’t a subjective issue where you are right because you “feel” you are right. There is an objective reality, and the objective reality is that you are an apostate. If those Orthodox girls have any sense at all, they will not allow you to live with them. The fact that you might not trayf up their kitchen is unimportant compared to the danger they face from the spiritual contamination that you carry.

    Anyway, whatever. I’m done here.

    Have a life.

  • ur completely right, i should have said objectively that i am indeed following god, sorry for being a coward and hiding my fear of man behind the “belief” mask. farewell, ephraim, dare i confess to u that ur in my prayers? welp, just did. have a wonderful life.

  • Don’t you fucking DARE pray for me, you sanctimonious little POS. Pray for your own lost soul. You’re going to need it.

  • Roni, I learned there are lost and cut off Jews. They have Jewish parents but do not observe Torah. Messianic Judaism is not Judaism. Many of its followers are not even Jewish in heritage. For the most part, they are not evil… they are simply uneducated in Judaism, as I was. My husband I were messianic teachers too but we realized we were wrong. Well known Messianic leaders studied and became orthodox Jews. Atheistic scientists…brilliant men…embraced observant Judaism. Gd didn’t give you a Jewish heritage for nothing. When you are ready, you can return. We will all welcome you back.

  • thanks for ur more kind comments, rachel. listen, there’s nothing to worry about. i’m seeking the truth and i ask god to lead me to it every day…though i really do believe in yeshua, i am more interested in god’s truth than i am in reaffirming my own beliefs in *anything.* he keeps his promises, and he’ll lead me to that truth, no matter what it is. so don’t worry…if everyone is indeed correct, god will lead me to what u are confident is his truth. nothin to worry bout… 🙂

    there are brilliant men of all different religions, i don’t see what that has to do with it. yes, god did indeed give me my heritage for a reason, and i believe that all jews should be observant. i’m not sure how i came across, but i do observe torah. i also know plenty of messianic jews who have studied and become part of orthodox communities, living observant of those communities’ laws…one does not have to contradict the other. i myself could not bare that kind of secrecy, and don’t believe in the authority of talmudic law anyway…yet i want to become aquainted with it and adopt aspects of it that i think aid in devotion to god, so i’ll be taking on parts of that lifestyle-at least in the home-next year

    i’m sorry that ur dislike for my beliefs has forced u to dislike me as a person. i’m not like that, middle.

  • Wow, I can’t believe all the nastiness and cursing from Jews, who are supposed to be the light for the nations. Shame on all of you.

  • True Jews rule! Happy Hanukkah to all of us.

    OK, i’m sorry but this is so vomitory, i had to share:

    http://www.50shekel.com/index.cfm

    He makes me ill, this “Aviad Cohen” traitor.

    The story about him at his folks’ for Hanukkah is truly a way to barf up your latkes. It’s embarrassing. I post about it not really because I want validation for my discomfort at its heinousness but mostly I needed to vent…

  • it’s ok it made even the one girl on his side in this thread uncomfortable as well…i wish i could have a chat w/ this guy. i’m really happy and excited that he found the truth…but it seems he found some lies (and just plain silliness) as well. (harry potter and lord of the rings=demonic?) but the guy’s been thru a lot so…

  • OK, OK, i know i’m giving this way too much press but someone explain this nuttiness to me from the crazy born again’s site:

    “Please note, my love for blacks does not include gansta rappers, Malcom X-Muslim militant-types, drug dealers, street thugs or blacks who hate Jews. I don’t consider those people black people. I consider them thugs and the scum of the earth who will inherit The Lake of Fire with the KKK, Nazis, Yad Lachim and other Jewish Anti-Missionaries, Muslims and other murderers. It’s those people who give blacks a bad name, just like shisty Jews and Israelis who rob people in business, Jewish pornstars and porn producers and abnoxious & idolatrous Jewish American Princesses who give Jews a bad name, just like homosexual fags who work in the media (TV, music, film, fashion, advertising industry, magazines, etc.) who seduce children and adults into severe sexual immorality, push anti-Godly values and hatred toward God and promote excessive materialism idolatry (the fashion world is an evil empire run by satan). Do understand, there are a lot of gay people that I know whom I love dearly and want to see come to know their Creator in Truth. Everyone deserves a chance at His Salvation. It’s never too late…until its too late when you die and never accepted Y’shua as your Savior.”

    Oh my dog…

  • O_O i’m so sorry, guys. please don’t interpret messianic judaism through 50 shekel…yeshua said to love your enemy, but 50 claims to not include those who he considers his enemies (muslims, kkk, japs, or whoever) in his “love”

  • 50 Shekel is a foolish attention-whore. Roni thinks she can still be Jewish and believe Jesus is G_d.

    That’s a Christian belief. I think that sums it up.

    Roni can’t seem to have a rational discussion about it, as she just attacks and attempts to inflame those around her. Then cries out from sympathy from the more kind-hearted around here.

    The fact remains that the definition of being Christian is that you believe Jesus was the Messiah. ALL the other stuff that goes with the various flavors of Xtianity are just window-dressing. To be clear: Not all Christian churches believe that Jesus was born a son of G_d. Nor do all Christians relegate the Torah to “Old Testament” status and prefer all the “New Testament” laws, etc. However it is also true that MOST of the 2.1 BILLION Christians out there DO believe in these ways. None of them are old enough to have been the nasty buggers that perpetrated the Crusades or the Inquisition or the Holocaust… but those folks were Christian whether you like it or not.

    Roni: You can’t re-define the term just because it now describes you. Being shomer shabbas just makes you a Christian who holds sabboth, not a Jew who believes Jesus was the Messiah.

  • So… the consensus seems to be “I felt bad for blindly hating so-and-so, until I realized they had become a Christian”? Huh? As if that suddenly makes it okay?

    I suppose I should be glad you’re not calling for an honor killing, but still…

  • The consensus is that Roni is a Christian and so is Fifty Shmecks. I don’t see hate coming into the picture. There is some disgust at the sneakiness of their proselyzing, however.

  • Indeed it is the proselytizing that disgusts me most… for whatever it’s worth.

    Like a train wreck, i can’t help looking at that nutso’s Web site. Now he has a myspace URL to boot. But his “Choking for Christ” is a hysterical raving of a certified lunatic. Being in SoCal myself, I am SO HAPPY he is leaving these parts! Good riddance to this confused soul.

  • could u please cite where was i attacking or trying to inflame anyone?

  • It’s the part where you insist you’re a real Jew even though you worship a corpse nailed to a stick.

    Get a freaking clue, would you? I mean, can you really be that stupid?

  • Oy, Ephraim, it’s one thing to disparage a Christian masquerading as a Jew who is involved in trying to sneakily convert other Jews. It’s another thing to make fun of the beliefs of others. Let’s respect others’ faiths just as we would hope they respect, you know, the one where a sea parted and the Earth stopped rotating.

  • I’m insulting her as a Jew, Middle. I have no problem with Xians worshipping the dude. And I’m quite aware that we have our own mishegoss.

    When I accuse her of being stupiud, I’m not insulting her beliefs, I’m questioning whether she can really be so dumb as to not see how her trying to be a Jew and an Xian at the same time mmight piss us off.

    If she really can’t see how insulting that is, she must really have the IQ of a bucket of warm spit.

  • i can understand that my beliefs offend u, but Jude stated that i “can’t seem to have a rational discussion about it, as she just attacks and attempts to inflame those around her. Then cries out from sympathy from the more kind-hearted around here. ”

    i don’t see where i was trying to do any of that. and i’m also not trying to “convert” anyone, sneakily or otherwise.

  • It’s not your beliefs that “offend,” okay? Don’t put on the victim hat, because you’re nobody’s victim.

    What offends is the claim that you are a Jew and that you use customs taken from Judaism when in fact you are a Christian.

    And yes, your movement is a sneaky one and uses these Jewish symbols to secure the confidence of those whom it seeks to convert. By the way, those who are targeted tend to be those who are unfamiliar with their Jewish heritage, or alternatively people who are at weak moments in their lives and seeking solace. How else to explain that tacky cable program with a guy calling himself by an identifiable Jewish name, with a menorah behind him, while preaching about Jesus being resurrected and being the messiah?

  • I have had numerous problems with Missionaries on the subway and in subway stations, which I blame on the fact that these missionaries don’t adhere to the turn the cheek philosophy they preach to others.

    One time when I plugged my ears at the call for salvation, I was worried my silent protest would go unnoticed. But the woman started using Hebrew terms, and I knew she had received my subtle message of “get the f-ck off my subway bitch, this is Manhattan and you can’t give that shit away here.”

    I was happy that ride home.

  • replace the word belief with claim then.

    i do not support people or organizations who would seek to “target” people to “convert.” neither does my congregation, my family, or my friends, who are all part of the “movement.” i am aware that there are organizations that *do* do such things, such as j4j…i think it gives us a bad name.

    call me what you want, but i won’t disobey god by disregarding his laws just because u think i should consider myself part of a different religion. i’m not going to stop following the commandments, and even the customs of my ancestors, for any reason, especially not because i believe in the messiah, who led by following them perfectly. how would that make sense, on my part? i would be a coward who values people’s acceptance over my convictions and god’s clear commandments. even paul told jewish believers to not abandon the customs of the forefathers, and yeshua said not a letter of the law would dissapear until heaven and earth pass away…why would i stop following it? why should i stop doing what i’ve been commanded to do?

  • Oh my word, well this is still going on!!! Y’know for a Jewish site and with Jews 4 Judaism this should have been over by now :-). I was involved in the thick of this ages ago.

    David Kelsey “Grammar” you sound militant, I hope you live in an unpopulated neighbourhood cos when you go postal it’s gonna be on the news or something. Sounds like you gotta hard heart, the line “I was happy that ride home.” is chilling. You should offload that hate it’s your burden the missionary probably just went to the next person while you sounds like you’re sharpening your knives. Oh and I don’t wanna see the Jewish version of Falling Down anytime soon. You should stop reading Talmud!!

    Oh and themiddle, what’s with the jewish symbols talk? Isn’t He(Messiah) supposed to be Jewish? Who you expecting Bill Clinton or something? I mean if Schneerson can be the Messiah then anybody can be but one fact Schneerson would have had to have been around before the destruction of the 2nd Temple(70AD) and sorry but he wasn’t, oh and he wasn’t cut off for the people. Oh and read Proverbs 30:4 if you are wondering about G-d’s Son. So with the Messianic deadline passed people can stop worry if Schneerson is the Messiah, he isn’t 🙁 Oh well.

    This Jew is not a Jew and is really a Christian is a joke, most followers of Yeshua are Gentiles and Yeshua made it pretty clear where Torah stands. The Gentiles forefathers did not make a covenant with G-d. So why should they be under Torah? If you’re Jewish then your forefathers made that covenant. If you read the New Covenant it is actually Torah on steroids (I couldn’t think of anything else I don’t mean any blasphemy), looking at a woman in lust is as good as adultery. No divorce!! Just because pork is on the menu for Gentiles doesn’t mean Torah is decreased in any way. But with the increase comes flexibility. Rituals are no longer required, when you speak to G-d in prayer you speak to Him as if He is there beside you. You are no longer required and no one can judge you for not participating in religious rituals, the relationship is between you and G-d. Love G-d with all your heart and soul and love your neighbour as yourself, simple. Do this and everything else will come into place. The shocking truth is no man can keep Torah, it’s not our nature, through Adam we are all condemned but through Yeshua we are all saved. We are sinners plain and simple. (here comes the riot…)

  • i see ur point in the 2nd paragraph, vanilla, but i must defend part of middle’s statement that missionary organizations to jews HAVE used jewish symbols simply as a means of attracting them or making them feel comfortable. i saw some literature the other day that had large page numbers with random jewish symbols next to each number (a menorah, “chai”, etc)…it’s like putting familiar jewish imagery on something so that the reader will associate what they are reading with judaism. i was quite sad to see this…messianic judaism is truly jewish and doesn’t need to be masked in unecessary symbols to appear so…i mean if they were relevant that would be one thing, but they were just kinda standing there saying “look at me! i’m jewishy!::thumbs up::” i’m notsaying jewish symbols should be absent, no, no…but they should be embraced by us in our devotion and expression of our faith, not used as a marketing ploy.

    as for torah, of course no one can follow it entirely. who has never in their life lied? that doesn’t mean we aren’t supposed to joyfully strive to with our whole hearts…and i see ur point about the new testament but i wouldn’t say it’s a stricter version, as u make it sound…i think it speaks a lot to the heart issues…looking at a woman lustfully is adultery in the heart because it is in the same intent-using someone else’s spouse to give u some sort of gratification u are not entitled to…i think that’s a very important concept…the actions of torah is only half the story…what is the intent?

    and here’s where our movement has a rift. so many messianic jews see the “actions” described in torah as being reduced to, as u said, ritual, and the “intent” upheld…but i, and many others, disagree..torah isn’t just ritual…it’s a covenant between god and israel…as u said, yeshua cited the greatest commandments as love the lord ur god etc etc… and love ur neighbor…but i don’t think he was saying that we are to disregard every other command unless u feel like one speaks to u…instead he said that all other commands fall under those two…they are the highest, and, if in a certain circumstance a specific command interfered with those two i would err on the side of the former (i’d buy a homeless person a meal on shabbat…or something like that)

  • Yes ronironi, I wouldn’t say that rituals are totally abandoned, no. My point is that instead of going like a zombie and just going through the rituals you do it because you love G-d and it is a sign of things to come in the Messianic era. There is no doubt you can become closer to G-d through Torah, it’s good for the spirit and if you want a healthy spirit and love G-d then you’ll want to follow His ways through Torah observance and practical example through Messiah Yeshua. So if you heart isn’t in the ritual there is no point doing it.

    On the other hand the Jewish symbolism thing, well these missionaries believe Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah, why wouldn’t they approach a Jew in this fashion? I personally find it a little bit strange for a Gentile to approach a Jew in a Jewish fashion but a Jew who believes in Yeshua has every right to. Would it be bad if a Hebrew in Moses’ day wasn’t told that Moses was one of their people and that they were to leave? How many of the Hebrews that were left behind would have followed Moses if only they knew? I’d say yes this is bad. If you knew the enemy was approaching wouldn’t you sound the shofar? If you didn’t then you would be held accountable by G-d. I mean a Lubavitcher would talk about Rabbi Schneerson and I’m sure people like David Kelsey would not be offended. I just think that sometimes just because it is Yeshua people are instantly hostile, one would say offensive (Isaiah 8:14 maybe huh).

  • I don’t know about every one else, but I am so bored of Jesus by now.

    Maybe this comment thread should make like the man himself and die.

  • Laya, if you don’t like sport why do you watch the sport channel? You came here, there are other threads you know. I’m sure your own brand of wit and humour are welcome elsewhere I see there is an interesting article on jewschool http://jewschool.com/?comments_popup=9862 .

  • Yeah, except I’m part of the operation that runs this here site, so I see each and every comment on each and every thread. Perhaps if you want to keep talking about Jesus, you could turn to the Jesus channel.

  • I’m so miserable without a religion, i can see it’s almost like having it. 🙂

  • vanilla…yeah of course the symbolism should be present, but with relevence. it was just random items thrown in to pump up the jewish level…all i’m saying is that unforunately some of the people posting’s accusations about “tactics” do exist…and the people handing out these tracts were not jewish. there are entire missionary organizations that seek to convert jews to christianity (they see torah as “a curse that has been lifted”) and put ’em in churches…they use the jewish symbols in the manner in which i spoke of, even tho they have no intention of encouraging the people to live jewish lives…and, by the way, u can go to j4j’s website and read about their negative view on torah observance.

    well…i certainly wouldn’t say schneerson is never the topic of a heated debate…but good golly, nothing like yeshua…most people don’t even want to talk about it. but u can’t really blame ’em…his names been pinned on nazis and crusaders and what historical christianity has made him out to be…but the veil’s gotta be lifted sometime…

    what time zone is this website based in? it’s 11:24 here…

  • Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a sidecar. Is this place becoming a hive of Xians?

    Will somebody put a stake through this thread so we can get these phony Jews out of here? There must be millions of other places where they can go and jerk each other off with all of their Jesus bullshit.

  • ok, ephraim, i won’t post anymore at ur request. if anyone wants to talk my im is nopezforu.

  • Hi Ephraim we’ll be at your house in about 20 minutes, well it’s the best place to jerk each other off 🙂

  • My my my my, such venting against someone who becomes a christian, hey David, I wonder if your client based over at drummerweb, will like being informed of your anti-Christian bias. I’m all for free speech, bu that doesn’t mean I need to do business with your clients.

  • Nobody’s venting about somebody becoming a Christian, Hooter. People are venting about a Christian pretending to be a Jew when he has, in fact, become a Christian.

  • I thought Jews put allot of value in the blood linage Middle. I thought you were considered a Jew regardless, if one, or for sure both, of your parents were decended from one of the ‘seven tribes’.

    What I gather from your comment is practice or belief of the religion trumps blood, yes? Were not all the original Christians, including of course the big controversial one, Jews? Are you saying a person who has no Jewish blood, but practices the religion, is more Jewish than a pure blooded Jew that chooses Christianity as a faith?

    Aside from the belief in Jesus as the Messiah, or not, what the hell is the big differences between the two in their moral beliefs(religion), both derived from the Torah/Old Testament Bible. I just don’t understand the obvious animosity, to this day. Jesus God almighty!

  • That should have been Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Budda God almighty!! Not necessarily in priority order…..

  • What people believe and what I believe may not be the same thing, Jim. While the rabbis place a great value on Jewish motherhood, I don’t.

    The original Christians were Jews…until the day they decided the messiah had arrived in the form of Jesus and he was the son of God. Then they were no longer Jews.

    As for the next question about not having Jewish blood but practicing as a Jew versus a born Jew who converts out to Christianity? The latter is not a Jew while the former is. Where I may differ with some of the others here is what they consider a valid conversion (Orthodox only) whereas I am far more flexible and would consider Conservative and Reform conversions. Depending on the process, I might even consider other types of conversion, the key being the education the person received and their reasons for becoming Jewish as well as their desire to be Jewish. I don’t much understand the point of a person converting to please a spouse but not having their heart in it.

    As for the animosity, I think you need to ask those who wrote a story accusing the Jews of Deicide, and then those churches and their followers who spent centuries persecuting Jews. Where did that animosity come from? Do you not expect significant defensiveness from the victims?

    Finally, the animosity you see here is directed at the trickery involved in trying to proselytize in order to convert Jews to Christianity. It’s the pretense that somehow these Christians are Jews, specifically intended to fool Jews into believing they are still Jews even if the believe in Jesus as the messiah or son of God. I don’t go around telling people that by being Jewish, they can also retain their Christianity and yet these folks – the Jews for Jesus and their like – do exactly that.

  • Interesting theological point, if a Jew becomes a Christian he no longer is considered a Jew, by the Jewish community. I suppose you should show this link to them: http://www.levitt.com/news/2005/05/25/the-new-creature/

    There is also the flip side to this discussion “the Gentile World”, here is a posting I made on another site related to the same discussion. I took notice of the opening statment of another blogger:

    Your opening comment JEWS ARE TO CHRISTENS AS BLACK ARE TO WHITES
    May I point out it was those American Christians 18-19 years of age that fought across Europe are also the ones that liberated the death camps in 45′. To lump people into ethnic groups is racist and no different than the NAZI’s or what we see happening in the middle-east Islamic world treating people of other faiths and cultures.
    Having a Jew suddenly convert to Christianity, or a Gentile go through the full conversion to Judaism isn’t so much of an issue, as to something fair greater that I have seen done as a great disservice to both communities.
    There has been a great movement within the gentile world to search out their early Jewish roots, and rejecting the age-old manmade dogma, pagan influence. Trying to interrupt historically what the Nazarene sect in roman history was, what was lost by Constantine’s roman pagan empire, what was the background of this sect during the periods of the Temple destruction and Bar Kokba rebellion. Proto-Talmudic traditions of the first century, Esenes and the Dead Sea scrolls including the influence of Enoch writings.
    Unfortunately, neither community will benefit from such groups as MJAA, nor UMJC, since neither of these groups are willing to deal with core issues, approach them with proper respect and knowledge, and only wish to convert as its some sort of cosmic LasVegas exercise who can win the most souls.
    As far as the issue of one’s faith well that’s up to the individual as it should. Its Un-American to attack one for that, you can disagree. But the complaints I see within this post reflect more of concern community and culture and those have always been viable arguments for every generation. It’s how one addresses these issues and shows proper wisdom and leadership. Unfortunately in the ever-faster world of technology, the normal amount of years that are required for wisdom and leadership seem to be falling behind.

  • Christianity is not an offshoot of Judaism.
    Judaism is the religion of pagan Jews who worship the Earth(kaballah) and others who worship man as god, who teach the Jews as a nation are the messiah. Who teach that they are the mouthpiece of God and reverse all His Laws through tiresome arguing and nitpicking. Who make sure a person is looked down upon if they open a door on the Sabbath but can justify the worst of their own sins.

    Christianity is an offshoot of the Hebrew Israelites(go google Moses) and NOT from Judaism the deformed version of the Torah, which is really anti-Torah with it’s godless philosophies and excuses for being Messiahless 2000+ years after the Messiah was expected. Babylonian tripe and star worshipping with a “monotheism” which is more like pantheism. Saying there is no Satan!!!

    The only real Jews these days that actually have some idea of what being a Jew is are Karaite Jews, but they are also on the Talmudic hitlist! All the other Jews are now Messianic or Hebrew Christians (yeah they read what God said and what He promised). All the rest are atheist!

    The Talmud is Jewish Nazism, it reads like the Quran!!! Talmud like the Quran is the result of corrupted man, justifying every sin for his own gain.

    If you read this and study the Talmud please please stop! Go and read what Moses and the Prophets wrote and find your God through that. Once you put down the Talmud you’re already on the right path.

    Shalom

  • Squeaker, we get our share of stupid posts on Jewlicious, but I think you’ve just squeaked into the top ten. Congrats.

  • It is sad that Aviad Cohen own people have become his enemies. If you do not agree with the Orthodox Jews they just throw you away. If you really believe you have the truth in life why would you be so angry that somebody else believes differently. If you are so close to G-d you should try to bring that person back. I do not believe he will be back. He sees more kindness and love in believing in Yeshua. His own people showed him how hateful they can be. It is funny Jews can believe the Rabbi Lubavitch was the Messiah so why cannot Aviad believe in Yeshua?

  • He can believe in any lie he wants. This is called “bechirah” – “choice.”

    You can chose to do good or bad, right or wrong. Chosing false prophets and messiahs is bad for your spiritual health.

    Maybe there are worse things in life but why settle for mediocrity and falacies?!

    “Ba’derech Sheh’adam rotzeh lelech, kach molichim oto.” Loosly translated, it means you’ll get what you ask for.

  • So sad. Seems the language of liberals & Jewish people is so full of language that shows disdain, hatred, and bitterness for self and others.