Hamas continues to butcher people in the Gaza strip and destroy Christian schools and churches. But Jimmy Carter thinks we should be nice to Hamas! He said last year that he thought Hamas was about to turn away from violence. When Islamic fanatics win, everyone else looses.
June 18, 2007
Armed masked men, said to be part of Al-Qassam [Hamas] Operational Force, stole, destroyed and burned down a monastery and a church school in Gaza, after they bombed the main gate with RPG shells…Father Manuel Muslem, the leader of the Latin community in Gaza, said that the armed men who carried all sorts of weapons, including machine guns and RPG launchers, burst in to the monastery and the Al-Wardiya Church school yesterday after they destroyed the main gate of the monastery with an RPG shell, and then entered the church and destroyed everything in the monastery: The crosses, the holy books, computers and photocopy machines… And he explained that the damage caused to the monastery, only on the inside, will require over 100,000 Jordanian Dinar to restore, all the more so the walls and the outer gates which were damaged by the shells and were entirely destroyed.
NOTE: New picture. Old picture below…
Betroad para çekme h?z? ile ?a??rtan ve kendine hayran b?rakan bir bahis sitesidir. Günün her saatinde hiçbir ?ekilde ara vermeden para çekim i?lemlerini … https://www.databahis.com/
TM thanks for fighting the fight.
Everything you say about Carter I agree with. You can add that in addition to being a liar, he is an anti-Semite.
Elon – I don’t need to misrepresent Carter, he does it for himself.
He clearly states that Hamas should be given a chance. A what does that mean? That means being nice.
When you say to a bunch of thugs and terrorists that they should be given a chance… that is being nice.
When you say to a serial killer… “Hey I think you should be let free to roam the streets because you just renounced murder after 20 years of mass-murder.” THAT IS CALLED BEING NICE.
Carter is a supercessionist anti-semite, nothing more.
See:
http://newcentrist.wordpress.com/2007/06/21/president-carter-has-lost-his-marbles/
Carter is clearly and openly saying that “we should be nice to Hamas.” He espouses the view that they should be treated like any other group and no differently. Even now, after their murderous rampage which included attacks in hospitals and the cold blooded murder of Fatah men in front of their wives and children, he believes the world should be trying to bring Fatah and Hamas together again and that the previous actions undertaken by these governments in ignoring Hamas was “criminal.”
Second, Carter is lying. Sorry. I purposely provided you with the MFA link, not just the ADL link. That’s two sources. If that’s not enough, simply search for “Hamas attack 2004” and “Hamas attack 2005.” You’ll find all you need. It’s also unacceptable to buy into the lie that they aren’t affiliated with all their sub-groups. Really.
This isn’t the first time Carter has lied. I heard him say on NPR that there are no mistakes in his recent book. There are and he’s been notified of those mistakes. They are not errors of opinion but errors of fact. However, he said, even after being informed of these errors, that the book contains no errors. Whether you like it or not, he’s got an agenda and that agenda seems to have taken precedence over truth and facts.
Third, I didn’t say that US aid to the Palestinians increased but that aid to the Palestinians increased. I meant from all parties. In any case, it increased from a little more than a billion dollars to over $1.2 billion which turns out to be around 10%, not 20%. My mistake. Here are some sources.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467820111&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1285
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/21/world/middleeast/21palestinians.html?ex=1332129600&en=bc205d192b5908a5&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&
There are no “cheap shots” at Carter. He is on the warpath and the target is Israel and its supporters in America, particularly Jewish supporters. It’s horrible, but that is the truth right now. I believe he is doing it because he actually thinks it might shake up things enough to create peace, but whatever his intentions, the manner he’s chosen to deliver his message is truly frightening and very unfortunate. He deserves to be criticized.
TM-
I’m not defending Hamas’ stance vis-a-vis Israel. No. Before Hamas gained the sort of popular support needed to garner the vote that put them in power, the US should have been far more involved diplomatically. Movements like Hamas become more popular as a result of oppression, particularly in the middle east. When the promotion of democracy coincides with this, the result is what happened in the Palestinian elections. And as Rabbi Jonah said, “When Islamic fanatics win, everyone else looses.” You would think it would be in the US’s interest to make damn sure that a group like Hamas would never be able to dream of achieving what they’ve now achieved in Gaza. For whatever reason, that isn’t the case.
Now in terms of your response to what I view as Rabbi Jonah unfairly taking a cheap shot at Carter, I’d like to point out the following:
1. Here is a transcript from that Interview with Pres. Carter:
One thing they pointed out and Israeli security confirmed this to me, Hamas leadership in August of 2004 pledged themselves to apply a cease-fire and they haven’t committed any actions of violence in the last 18 months.
So, either Carter is flat out lying or the ADL is doing a terribly dishonest thing in disseminating that information, because it is patently false.
2. The US just un-froze tens of millions of dollars in aid
Can you provide the statistical proof that American aid to the PA increased 20% the year following the elections?
3. None of this goes to my original point, which was that the Rav mischarachterized Carter and then took him to task for it. It’s fallacious to say that Carter is saying “we should be nice to Hamas!”.
Ok it’s late. Layla tov y’all!
I assume GTFOHWTBS is Get The Fuck Outta Here With That Bullshit.
No idea what FHGWGADS means though.
Hamas, Fatah, PFLP, yada yada yada. As far as israel is concerned there;s nothign to choose from.
I hope that the Hamasniks continue to murder their terrorist rivals with all of the ferocity at their disposal. It will leave fewer terrorists for Israel to have to kill in the end.
Well, in all fairness, Elon, the article ends thus:
It took me one search on Google to find this list which proves him wrong.
Also, that list doesn’t refer to all of their sub-groups which simply operate under different names but share the same goals, materiel and tactics. It also doesn’t change their assistance to other groups.
Let’s not play dumb here, Hamas may be “disciplined” and “organized” but this doesn’t change their objectives or manner of behavior. If we needed any evidence that all the claims about them are true, they’ve now provided them with the manner in which they slaughtered the Fatah militants. Carter is claiming that they should have been treated differently by Israel, the US and the EU and it was criminal to treat them like a terror organization.
The irony, by the way, is that Carter says,
And this is precisely what happened. Aid to the PA fell dramatically after Hamas won the election, but overall aid to the Palestinians increased by 20% in the year following the elections. It’s just that the aid didn’t filter through the PA. That’s a good thing, by the way, because Hamas was busy using the PA money to smuggle in arms. Imagine if the world had listened to Carter and funneled money directly to the PA.
To me, this is a particularly troubling development from an American foreign policy perspective, because the Bush Administration has virtually ignored the Israel/Palestine issue and now faces a much more difficult problem for their interests and for the prospect of peace.
Furthermore Rabbi, I think that you display a bit of intellectual dishonesty when you take a cheap shot at Pres. Carter and attempt to frame him as a friend and supporter of Hamas particularly when you mis-represent his statement, he said:
“They told me they want to have a peaceful administration. They want to have a unity government, bring in Fatah members and independent members,” Carter said. But he added that “what they say and what they do is two different matters.”
You characterize him as such:
But Jimmy Carter thinks we should be nice to Hamas! He said last year that he thought Hamas was about to turn away from violence.
I just don’t think that’s right. It’s fallacious and not what I’d expect from such a well respected guy.
now there’s a friendly lookin fellow.
here’s some recent polling on how Palestinians feel about Hamas, etc: http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2007/p24epressrelease.html
“Sure, I think they care.â€
They definitely should care. What happened recently in Gaza is exactly what Hamas’ political opponents should expect. Anyone who thinks they can work in a common front with these lunatics is deluding themselves. Hamas is a totalitarian outfit, perfectly willing to use the trappings of democracy but ultimately relying on brutality to accomplish its objectives.
But the rest of them—Fatah, PFLP, etc.—are not much better. They all participate in suicide bombings and other attacks against civilians and now they are killing each other. Maybe the Palestinian people will finally get sick of this sort of leadership but I am not holding my breath:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUKL0740541820070607
Palestinians say fed up with gunmen
Thu Jun 7, 2007 12:49PM BST
By Wafa Amr
RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) – For most Palestinians, black-hooded gunmen have long been respected symbols of resistance against Israeli occupation.
Now, frequent internal fighting and lawlessness gripping the Palestinian territories have transformed the militants into no more than gangsters in the eyes of many of those who once saw them as heroes.
“It’s very ironic but I’m relieved the Israelis have started a bombing campaign. The gunmen killing each other on the streets were forced to go into hiding,” said Mai, a Gaza housewife, referring to strikes aimed at halting rocket attacks on Israel…
Gunmen, who once battled Israeli soldiers in the alleyways of towns and refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza, have turned against each other in an on-going power struggle between Hamas and Fatah — partners in a unity government. Some of the militias formed by Fatah and Hamas are no longer controlled by their political leaderships and owe loyalties to clans or criminal gangs that enforce their own rules.
“Many of these groups are now a burden on society. They were created to fill a security vacuum under the pretext of national resistance, said legislator Nasser Jum’a, once a leading member of Fatah’s al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades…
Jum’a said ordinary Palestinians were so fed up with the armed groups “they now wish the Israeli occupation would take over in Gaza or hope for the return of Jordanian rule in the West Bank†to get rid of them…
I will put up a new picture!
Leftist and Marxist and a Palestinian nationalist who advocates violence against Israeli civilians until the day that Israel is run over with Palestinians. He makes a great case for the security barrier.
what’s GTFOHWTBS? is it like FHGWGADS?
yes, leftist and marxist. note the rhetoric Sa’adat uses in this interview:
http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/000308.php
Sure, I think they care. Whether they are Marxist, Christian, or simply secular Palestinians who have nowhere else to hang out, the rise of an Islamist government over all of Gaza is bad news for them.
I’ll bet these guys are doing some serious soul searching now that an Islamic group has taken over Gaza using violence.
you really think they care? I’d say the PFLP’s adherence to Marxist principles is about as serious as Fatah’s commitment to a 2-state solution.
and xisnotx: “leftist” PFLP? GTFOHWTBS
It’s like color war – with guns.
They should change the black masks into a different color as well, it all gets so confusing. I’ll bet these guys are doing some serious soul searching now that an Islamic group has taken over Gaza using violence.
I think that’s a picture of the secular, leftist PFLP, many of whose members are Christian. That would explain the red headbands and the picture of PFLP leader Ahmed Sa’adat in the background.