You’d have to be a cold and heartless person not to sympathize with the sorrow felt by Dr. Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish. In this clip he is on the phone with veteran Israeli Channel 10 Newsman Shlomi Eldar. Abu al-Aish cannot contain his anguish, asking Eldar over and over again “Why Shlomi, why?” Eldar for his part, has a hard time maintaining his composure as well. Haaretz reports:

When Channel 10 called him on Friday, he answered the phone crying that his house in the northern Gaza strip town of Jebalia had been hit by Israeli shells and his daughters killed. Eighteen members of his extended family were in the house at the time… Israeli TV said initial reports indicated that a sniper had fired from either the family’s building – which friends quoted by TV said they doubted – or nearby, and the Israeli infantry responded with a tank shell… Abu al-Aish was able to arrange the transfer of two injured daughters to Israeli hospitals – something that has been extremely rare during this conflict. The Israeli army also for the first time allowed a Palestinian ambulance to go straight to the Erez border crossing, where the injured were transferred to Israeli ambulances… From there, they were taken by helicopter to Tel Hashomer hospital in Tel Aviv.

Dr. Abu al-Aish, who was trained and worked in Israel, had been calling in to Channel 10 on a regular basis, providing reports on the situation on the ground in Gaza. He was clearly much admired by his colleagues in Israel and the journalists that got to know him. After the airing of this show, channel 10 was flooded with calls by people expressing concern for his and his family’s welfare as well as anguish and sadness at his loss. The IDF stated that the Doctor’s home was hit by a tank shell after sniper fire was reported from the area. Whatever the reason, this was clearly a monumental fuck up – tragically happening on the day before an expected cease-fire.

No doubt much will be made about this horrible tragedy by those seeking to exploit it for political gain. All I can do is extend my heartfelt condolences to Dr. Abu al-Aish as well as all the other innocent civilians who lost their lives senselessly in Gaza. Our hearts go out to you and we feel only sadness and regret at your loss:


Gaza Celebration of Terrorist Attack on Mercaz HaRav Yeshiva

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ck

Founder and Publisher of Jewlicious, David Abitbol lives in Jerusalem with his wife, newborn daughter and toddler son. Blogging as "ck" he's been blocked on twitter by the right and the left, so he's doing something right.

113 Comments

  • yeah i can see how sorry you are at his daughters death, and at the same time you are showing gazans suposedly celebrating a terrorist attack.

    do you want me to post links to pictures showing israeli kids writing messages on israeli missiles and bombs, such as “good day arabs, this is a gift”

    or do you want me to post pictures of american jews celebrating the first few days of the iraq war where people died in their thousands?

    your sorrow is false, cut the crap, no palestinian or arab has asked for jewish sympathy, so dont give any of your so called sympathy, if you hate be honest, no one will judge you for it, dont be a prik and play both sides of the camp.

    an honest arab hating jew is better than a jew who “shows” his smypathy for dead palestinians,the world or arabs dont need your sympathy, we arabs survived destruction by the mongolians,we survived the crusades,hell we even survived under the palgue, we are definitely going to survive you and the americans

    listen to your rabbis,they call us amalekites, so please dont post such nonsense of showing sympathy, read your history and your holy books, jews dont do “sympathy”.

  • this doctor trained in israel, so that makes him a good arab???

    he gave information to an israeli channel, it seems he was mighty chummy with the jews, and his reward, the death of his daughters,so it proves even friendly arabs are gonna get the stick of the idf, well thats fine, if palestinian arabs are meant to suffer, they are going to suffer,everything happens for a reason, the jews were jumping with joy when god drowned pharoe and his army, but they werent jumping with joy when solomons nation was sacked by the egyptians, guess god didnt protect you then eh.

  • The message posted by those girls was to Hassan Nasrallah and it is the only photo you can post. You are free to be skeptical. Meanwhile Dr. Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish’s daughters are being treated in an Israeli hospital and no one here is celebrating their deaths or the deaths of any innocent civilians. There is no celebration in Jerusalem. No Israeli is handing out candies. Whatever. This whole conversation is gross to me. Do and say whatever you like. I don’t care.

  • what kind of a father talks to the people responsible for his daughters death????????

    Dr Ezeldeen abu al aish is a fucking coward.

    if israeli jews are killed by arab terrorists, they dont call up palestinian news channels and ask “why ahmed why”

  • It is so sad that Dr. Abu Al-Aish has to suffer such a horrible tragedy befalling his family, when he has done NOTHING to deserve such pain, although unfortunately Hamas has. While I also thought it’s a little screwed up to feel you need to “counter” Israel’s f-up in Gaza with Palestinians celebrating a bombing in Israel. (even more f-ed up, without question)

    The real tragedy here is that such a terrorist and uncompromising “government” as Hamas was elected to power by the people, does nothing to help alleviate the poverty, lack of freedom, and general quality of life in Gaza, and then PURPOSELY puts innocent Palestinians in the line of fire because they want to eradicate the EXISTENCE of Israel.

    This entire situation is horrible, the death of innocents on BOTH sides is unforgivable, but the entire Hamas (and Hizballah, etc) doctrine needs to be changed or wiped out…or NO ONE in that region will ever be safe.

  • CK i realise this is a jewish blog and i have no right to judge or insult anyone here, but this dr pisses me of.

    he is crying to an israeli reporter, what the hell is that?

    its time palestinians realized that they should not form any relations with jews and should not ask for sympathy from jews, its stupid to do so, would you jews cry on the phone to arab news channel after a terrorist attack??

    also what do these palestinians get out of talking to the israeli media???

    are the israeli public going to change their minds and show mercy to them???
    only god can show mercy, israel is a pragmatic nation, no palestinian no matter how moderate or friendly can do anything about israels policy.

    David ben gurion said that arabs only understand force and thats the way israel will always deal with the arabs,
    palestinians can only grin and bear it

    after the war there wont be anymore intifadahs or palestinian revolts, israel has sent them a clear message,
    this dr is a broken and defeated man, crying on the phone to his enemy.

    within the next 20 years israel will elect avigdor lieberman and his party will probably kick out all arabs, including israeli arabs, then things are gonna get interesting.

  • i am not a hater, i am tired of palestinians acting like children.

    look at the israelis and look at the palestinians.

    thousands of palestinians betray their own brothers, they sell out their neighbors and they want special privilages like jobs in israel or a passport so that they can leave the land,

    how many jews sell out israel????

    how many jews cry and whine during a war??

    this dr is a good example, how did he get permission to train in israel?

    i will tell you how, he “”cooperated” with the israelis.
    Every palestinian who has trained or received benefits from israel has to do something for the idf, like spying on their neighbors.

    the palestinians are a broken and hopeless people, stubbornly fighting a lost war, they dont even have the support of the arab countries, they are used as a plaything by the world

    israel is testing new weapons on gaza according to the idf, they are nothing but target practice, thats how pathetic they are and it pains me to see them like this.

    to me this doctor is a representation of the palestinian people, a broken people.

  • What the fuck is wrong with you?

    The man just lost his daughters. It doesn’t matter why or who, they’re dead and gone. He is obviously going to be extremely upset and sad.

    Sheesh!

  • Talkbacks aren’t representative of anything. Look at this discussion dominated by “Cut the Crap/Simple Guy/Asian Muslim Guy/Goyim/(and others I’ve missed).” Does he represent a consensus?

  • themiddle can you tell me how he got a job in israel?

    remember the palestinian fullbright scholars who were prevented from leaving gaza???

    but somehow he got a chance to work in an israeli hospital

    i will tell you why, he chose to work with the israelis instead of serving his own people, and his reward…….the death of his daughters

    so what is the moral of the story, dont sell out your own people

    no palestinian should ever work for the israelis.

  • this is from a ynet talkback

    6. This doctor belongs in Gaza where he can help the
    murderers he and his fellow Gazans elected to office. God shows no mercy to those who have shown no mercy, so why is Israel showing mercy to Gazans in Israeli hospitals when this doctor is not even a prisoner of war. His dead children went to be with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Moses, David, and Yeshua. This doctor should be thanking the Lord for His mercy to children who because of their parents’ unbelief can only go to heaven if they die young. It was God’s favor to this Gazan physician that caused the death of his three daughters who would have gone to hell if allowed to grow up as Muslims in a religion that denies the God of Abraham. He should be kissing the feet of the IDF who killed his daughters because the daughters are comforted and are in Paradise because of their young age. That is reality, pal.
    Rivkah (01.17.09)

  • the jewish woman says “. He should be kissing the feet of the IDF who killed his daughters because the daughters are comforted and are in Paradise because of their young age. That is reality, pal.
    Rivkah (01.17.09)

    this is jewish logic, you call us fanatics, this is your religion and logic.

    how the fuck would you feel if arabs told you to be grateful for being killed by terrorists.

    this is your logic, these arabs should be grateful for dying due to the idf,

    i posted that from ynetnews, i will post the article again

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657587,00.html

    read talkback 6

  • i am not an asshole spammer and i am not a fucking inhuman monster

    i have seen his face on yent and yes i know that he is suffering but why on earth did he have a press conference
    in an israeli hospital, did he really think he was gonna get sympathy from you people????

  • It is silly to think the people (not the military or government, but civilians) on one side are better than the people on the other side. Look at how Israelis are reacting. Look at reports of “war tourists”. Listen to what some Israelis are saying about the deaths. Look at the Alternet video by Blumenthal which shows people dancing in the street over Israel’s bombing, denouncing all Muslims, saying Israel should wipe them all out. There is plenty of hate on both sides.

    If this one doctor can get some people to think about the huge waste in human life that were blind to it before, that alone is good.

  • what everyone is asking is why didnt he bring his daughters into the west bank or israel if he was allowed to work in israel??

    its because the idf did not give permission for his daughters to be allowed into the west bank or israel, its mentioned in a article by ynet,

    so tell me again what is his fucking reward for working for you guys????

  • he was described as “a zionist palestinian” by his jewish friends at the hospital, he also sent his daughters to peace camp and believed in co existence, so tell me what did he get out of it??

    if this is how you treat your arab friends, only god knows how arabs are treated in idf jails.

  • alsothemiddle i hope you are not a jew because you seem like a decent human being and not blind, if you are a jew, please convert to islam, you deserve better.

    and dont bother about showing the other side, jews have been blind since the time of moses,

    did you know the torah describes how god gave leprosy to the jews because they mocked the skin colour of the wife of moses

  • hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    getting personal are we, lol

    you are not the first jew to curse at me, i have heard your foul mouths at israeli checkpoints

    as i was saying look at the way you treated the palestinian doctor, he was described by his friends as a zionist palestinian, and you killed his daughters

    tell me yael, what reward did you give this palestinian capo???

    maybe this is a good thing, the message is, hey palestinian,doesnt matter what you are, you are still nothing.

    no palestinian should ever work under any israeli,ever, and this doctor is a good example,

    and fuck any apelstinian girl singing with israelis, its like singing with a bunch of killers

  • Yael, I’ll gladly respond to any Palestinian that doesn’t want to spread paranoid lies and deliberate misunderstandings, but this person here with their multiple nicknames is a waste of time.

  • hehehehe

    the leprosy story from the torah really boils their blood

    what kind of a people questions their saviors wife’s skin colour??

    moses married a cushite woman, who had dark skin, the jews questioned her skin color and god gave them leprosy,lol

    hashem sure has a sense of humour,lol

  • in leprosy, the skin can become depigmented, becoming more white

    can you guys see the moral of the story here???

    hehehe

  • paranoid lies????

    is ynet news a palestinian website???

    is haaretz a palestinian website?

    is jerusalempost a palestinian website???

  • you people still didnt answer me, this doctor was pro israeli, so why didnt the idf give permission to bring his daughters into israel or the west bank before they were shelled?????????????????????

    if the idf can trust this palestinian doctor with israeli lives, couldnt they have trusted his daughters???????

  • the best response you people can come up with is “fuck off” or “i dont care”

    you havnt changed at all, and you never will, go take your bloody holy land, go steal some more land, go build more barriers, you had the land before and you still fucked up, and those were the times when you actually had prophets

    good luck

  • Even in the face of this tragedy, when the doctor expresses his hope that the loss of his daughters may in the end bring peace closer, he is interrupted by a hatefull Israeli woman, Levana Stern, whose sons in the army even could have been the killers.
    When will Israeli stop being so agressive, hatefull and misled by unnessesairy fear ?

  • many palestinians are broken and they will lose, but that isnt the end of them,

    the palestinians will mix with asians and other arabs, all the people will be one

    you jews on the other hand are a narrow ethnocentric cult, you have been for the last 3000 years and you will always remain, you will always and i mean always struggle to reclaim your heritage but the best you can come up with is a bunch of rabbis wearing silly hats and western hats

    did moses dress like an arab or did he dress like a rabbi today??

    better to be a raghead arab than to be a white ass jew

  • Hey, Cut The Crap/Simple Guy/Asian Muslim Guy, at this point you are spamming us. Why don’t you think through whatever it is you want to say and write it in one long comment. Thanks.

  • CTC: Wow. You’re like… a little shrill. But I’ll respond to your issues. It’s unlikely that Dr. Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish was a “collaborator” as Hamas would have killed him by now – especially given how open he was – it’s not like Hamas wouldn’t have known that he was on TV in Israel on several occasions.

    No one gives talkbacks any credence at all. The reporters don’t read them and it’s easy for someone who is anti Israel to leave horrifically stupid comments that can be interpreted as being somehow representative of all of Israel – like you just did.

    In any case, like I said before, you are tiresome and annoying. I’ve addressed your points. Have a nice day.

  • Sorry to continue this, but you said, CTC, in a comment above that only God can show mercy. My understanding, and experience is that we humans show mercy when our hearts are open: that in itself is God-like. To say that only ‘God shows mercy’ leaves the door open for the most inhuman behaviour (this site only likes US spelling: pity).

  • Yes humans should show mercy…Bu that is not what the Israeli millitary and their big brother the US is doing..By abstaing from the peacefire agreement in the UN,Israel felt that they have the right to continue despite condemnation.What kind of mercy is this particularly when Ehud Barak openly claimed that he had convinced Condolisa Rice to abstain from the UN vote.

    When Russia attacked Georgia the world was quick to step up and put russi in its place.When the tables have turned and Palestinians are massacred, the world drags its feets and legitimises the incursion by Israel eve though over a 1000 people have been killed and thousands injured.UN schools sanctuarie have been hit, UN aid workers and drivers killed,access to the injured and dead not provided to the Red Cross.Is this the Mercy you talk about? The Zionists and their supporters are not the Jews of old who had suffered and understand what it is to be an oppressed people.

    The premise that the Israel is promised to the Jews might pull some weight withe non-violent Zionist supporter, but surely God will judge the Zionist for their destruction and oppression of a people.

    May God help you all to step out of your shallow caccoons and speak the truth and condemn evil actions.I am no anti semite however I am anti Zionist

  • CK, it really upsets me that you would post the video from the Gaza celebrations under your post about this man’s horrible tragedy. You say compassionate things, but then really negate them by posting the video, as if to say “haha, its your turn now.” why not show compassion where it is due without the snide video post– was the doctor or his daughters in the video?

    I read Jewlicious even though I don’t always agree with the politics expressed here because I find it to be a quality blog– this post gives me a pain in the pit of my stomach that makes me want to stop reading your blog altogether.

  • Dear all,
    Peace to everyone.I think it’s time for all of us to sit together, discuss the issues and sort everything out peacefully.Unfortunately, the world seems to have started misinterpreting the Divine laws. For instance, the “eye for an eye” punishment (Exodus and Quran); This law was introduced to STOP people crossing their limits, NOT to make everyone blind. It’s interpretation is “If someone has taken your eye, you CANNOT cross your limit and do more more harm than he he/she has done to you.” This makes sense and is infact common sense. The modern “intelligent” man however, interprets this law as:”If someone has taken your eye, you must harm him and take his eye” which does NOT make any sense and infact a NON-SENSE.
    The way we look at the world and interpret it makes us make mistakes and blame God for not being intelligent enough to introduce laws that make sense.
    Instead of relying on their leaders, I think Palestinians and Israelis should sit together and discuss their issues peacefully; most issues can be resolved by using common sense.
    Peace to all.

  • Susan – don’t think for a second that I didn’t have the same concerns you did. I didn’t want to be seen as exploiting the Doctor’s tragedy at all. A friend of mine who is a Med student was at Tel Hashomer with Dr. Abu Al-Aish and what he related to me from the scene was heartbreaking. But there is another side to the story and I couldn’t sit idly by while others spoke about Israelis being heartless murderers. We’re not. And I’m not just upset at this Doctor’s high profile tragedy, I’m upset by all the needless and senseless loss of life in the region. Those that seek to picture us as craven and heartless killers need to be confronted with the reality of what we are dealing with and with the reality of who Israelis really are. It’s a fine line to tread and I may have failed – please accept my apologies as I meant no offense. I just wanted to paint a picture of the reality here and sometimes the truth just isn’t very comfortable or pretty.

  • Susan, my initial reaction to this post was also one of shock and even dismay. Where is ck’s sympathy? How can he juxtapose the video and the horrible torture this man is going through?

    I’ve had a chance to revisit this a couple of times and I now understand ck’s point and it is well made even as it seems horrific. Maybe for the first time I understand the horrific implications of handing out candy and celebrating after a “successful” attack on Israelis. It is a reaction opposite to what most of us would ever consider possible and definitely opposite to what most Israelis feel upon the death of any Palestinian.

    Regarding the story itself, if there was sniper fire coming from the doctor’s house, then this situation becomes doubly painful because the deep sympathy and sadness I feel for him are crossed with anger that he or Hamas or they together allowed this situation to exist.

  • I can almost guarantee that Dr. Abu Al-Aish did not allow Hamas gunmen to fire from his home. There is no reason to believe that that had happened, at least not with the willing cooperation of the family. Now we can discuss culpability and attempt to discern the veracity of the IDF spokesman’s statements in great detail. But I just don’t have that in me right now. It’s not going to make the situation any less tragic. I’m just hoping the cease fire will hold and that Hamas will desist from further endangering their constituents.

  • ” Our hearts go out to you and we feel only sadness and regret at your loss:”

    ck, i hope dr. al-aish does not see what you did with this. i wish i didn’t see it either.

  • I hope Dr. Abu Al-Aish does not see what else was done in his family’s name. Despite his grief and suffering, even while the lifeless bodies of his daughter were still warm, he has called for nothing other than peace and understanding. Read the articles – he is a remarkable man. Sadly, others are trying to use his family’s tragedy to promote a war mongering agenda, claiming that Israelis are celebrating the deaths of his daughters. He’s in Israel now. He knows what the truth is and I am certain he doesn’t fear it. I don’t know why you fear the truth x.

  • But CK/Middle, what if, G-d forbid, it was your daughters and your nieces who were killed? What if I showed you a blog that told of your tragedy, with a video at the bottom of some haredim praising Baruch Goldshtein? Would you believe me when I said I was sympathetic? Or would it upset you and make you think that I was subtly saying that you got what you deserved? Wouldn’t you said, “but hey, that’s not fair, that’s not me?”

  • Susan, tough question. I cannot speak on behalf on anybody else, but I think I would be pained in general, but also embarrassed by the actions of my co-religionists. The fault lies not with the person pointing things out afterall. Then again, that’s just me..

  • ck tell me why did israel prevent some gaza fullbright scholars from leaving even when the united states tried to intervene on their behalf???

    and dont tell me they were “hamas fighters”, the fact that they were recognized as pro american means they werent hamas, so why did israel prevent them from leaving?????

    i will tell you why, because you can, thats why, you made a point, you told the palestinians, “look pals, we control your lives,forget about your dreams ,we will give you a few scraps so be happy and dont complain, and by the way if even try to resist, we will kill you”

    thats the deal palestinians have to live with, and now this palestinian doctor is living proof

    one last thing, go emotionally masturbate and call yourselves special, maybe it will come true, assholes

  • The poor doctor has suffered a terrible loss, but he is, after all, a Palestinian. Or at least that’s how I construe the message.

  • Susan, if anything were to happen to my family I would go curl up in a corner in the fetal position completely oblivious to the world around me. The least thing I would care about is a blog or somebody’s commentary. That this doctor had the strength to speak to the cameras after this horror is incredibly moving and, well, incredible.

    To your specific point, the passing around of candy and the celebrations after attacks on Israelis are actually fairly common events. This differentiates them from the small number of people who find Goldstein’s actions laudable in the same way that comparing Goldstein to Palestinian suicide bombings is to compare a singular, anomalous event with strategic, well planned frequently occuring attacks.

    Yes, I guess I could read the post to mean that “they got what they deserved” which was in fact my initial reaction. That’s why I emphasized that revisiting this post made me realize that it really brings home the difference between how the two sides approach this conflict. ck is pointing out the grief felt in many Israeli quarters for this man’s loss and crudely but effectively contrasting it with Palestinians. And in fact, it’s this attitude that has driven the conflict to where it is.

  • Middle, I think what Susan is driving at, is that it’s inappropriate to exploit the deaths of children to make a political point, even if that point has merit. There are other ways of critiquing Hamas.

    It’s also a very fraught path to head down, contrasting one culture’s ostensible unconcern with human life with the ostensible sensitivity of another’s. The Viet Cong, and earlier the Japanese, were Asians who didn’t value human life as much as white people do…. These are very dangerous comparisons to make, if only by implication.

    The tragedy of these children speaks for itself, without Hamas thugs or immediately asking where the hostile fire was coming from.

  • Tom, can’t help but wonder, would people have been just as offended had CK asked for compassion for Israeli victims by Palestinians in a separate post and contrasted reactions on both sides? There has never been a bellum iustum. The loss of civilian lives (are drafted soldiers not “civilian”?) is the horrific reality of war. While we stand in shock and grief, we do not forget the chain of cause-and-effect. The tragedy of those children implies the Hamas thugs, the Hamas terrorism that is directed at Israelis as well as at moderate Palestinians. The writing was on the wall.

  • The death of an Israeli child to terror is every bit as much a tragedy as the death of these Palestinian children. Sorry.

  • Certainly.

    But I am irked by the suggestion that CK’s compassion wasn’t genuine, that he didn’t care at all and was just a faker. Anybody who knows him knows such claims don’t do him justice and anybody who makes such claims is ignorant of his (voluntary, unpaid) work he’s been doing, the many efforts he’s been making, and also his writing on here. That, or that person wants to bathe in a puddle of self-righteousness – which is a reverse exploitation of those children’s death.

  • froylein, I’m as little able to peer inside ck’s soul as anyone else, but I’m happy to credit him with sincerity. I’m just modestly judging what I see, not its author. And you’ve got text that tries to get beyond nationality and the passions of wartime, and two videos that together vitiate that message– indeed, stand for the opposite. I don’t do ad hominem attacks, and I don’t think other comments contained them either.

  • The oddly passive notion that “the writing was on the wall” conveniently elides whether Israel’s actions, in this small instance or with respect to the campaign in general, were just under all the circumstances. If we take a massive response by nuclear-armed states to be inevitable as a matter of course, we’ve gutted any semblance of just-war analysis. If, as recently occurred, US soldiers kill an Iraqi family at a roadblock, it would hardly be satisfactory to claim “the writing was on the wall”, or Saddam was a bad guy so this can only have been expected, etc.

  • Just to take a mimute away from “the writing was on the wall” and remind everyone that the writing was on the wall.

    I don’t mean to say that anybody did anything that warranted the deaths of these girls. I just mean that it was inevitable that Israel would cause a number of tragedies such as this one in its offensive. That is one of the reasonse they had not attacked for all that time, it is one of the cynical reasons that Hamas wanted Israel to attack, and it is the key problem with fighting these non-state organizations that strategically place their fighters among civilians.

    In the public sphere, that of public opinion, Israel lost this war on the day it hit the UN school and killed 40. The same happened with Qana and Lebanon. The same will continue to happen because “the writing is on the wall.” Israel and any other nation facing this type of warfare has two choices: fight and look bad; don’t fight and give your enemy the ability to pressure and harm you. It’s a lose-lose and for Hamas, even when they’re beaten back aggressively, it’s a win win.

    Tom, you’ll recall that we were in agreement that nothing less than a crushing defeat of Hamas would accomplish its goals. Its early to tell how much damage the Israelis did, but there’s no question that even with the best attempt to control civilian casualties they could muster, the Israelis were hard hit by the ricochets of their own attacks.

    It’s a tough situation.

  • I’d like to share this video of how Dr Ezzeldeen was treated on a press conference:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_F0p8Jcrc

    I want to then say it is pretty disturbing to show that video of the palestinians celebrating. What is the point ? to show that palestinians are monsters?

    Why don’t you post a video of all the innocent palestinan children slaughterd in this war ?

    You know what amazes me the most ? Israel doesn’t want to talk to Hamas because they say they are terrorists. Did you know Tzipi Livni Dad (Aton livni) was a chief operations officer of a terrorist group, blowing up the king David hotel in jerusalem, killing 90 civilians ? Isn’t that ironic?

    You can see the statements of a Jewish british MP talking about that here:

  • Middle, I agree with your analysis. In any event, there’s a critical difference between throwing up one’s hands and saying, ‘there’s nothing to be done, the other side brought this upon itself’, and counting the deaths of hundreds of children in Gaza as weighing in the scales against a massive response. One can still weigh it out and support Israel’s response, as I do. The lazy approach (not yours) is to blame the bad guy and leave it at that.

  • There’s nothing passive about that notion as I did put it into context; warfare has caused damages and losses of lives among civilians ever since there has been a definition for war as opposed to bellicose struggles. I’m not a cynist. Politically, I’d label myself a realistic pacifist. But as Middle correctly stated, in warfare you cannot always avoid civilian casualties. Whether the measures Israel took were just or not depends on one’s gauge; if your gauge is the Geneva Convention, then the measures Israel took were by any means just and still way below what the Geneva Convention grants states in response to para-military attacks by non-combatants (members of a military not distinctively recognizable as soldiers in uniform) on your territory or citizens. War is never fun.

  • Susan-
    If you had brought a picture of some jews in Hebron praising Goldstein than I’d say it’s wrong. But if you had brought such pictures from all around Tel Aviv than that would be quite a different thing!
    The problem here is that cries of joy coming from Palestinians whenever Israelies are killed are common while the same behaviour is common mainly amongst Kahana’s followers on the Israeli side (i.e.-a small minority). I hope you understand the difference!

  • what proof is there that the all the palestinians celebrate on the street??????

    does one palestinian street constitute the whole of palestine???

    you guys are pulling logic out of your ass

    daniel dont bother, these people are as blind as a bat

  • these people also dont mention the jewish defense league and their celebration of death of muslims

    or american jews celebration of death of iraqis,(american christians the fuckers they are)

    i remeber in 2005 american journalists laughing besides a dead iraqi

    or how about the story of american soldiers exchanging pictures of dead iraqis for porn

    daneil check this story out, and it has been confirmed by the pentagon

    http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/050920glaser/

  • Daniel, there were some attacks by the Irgun that I would label “terrorist,” but the King David Hotel’s attack is not among them. That hotel served as the military headquarters for the British at a time when they were in a life and death war with the Irgun. Also, the Irgun members called the hotel to warn for evacuation 5 times. This was denied by the British for decades until the soldier who received the calls finally admitted this publicly several years ago.

  • daniel did you know that the pentagon blocked the porn website after female american soldiers started appearing nude on the website

    here is the link to freerepublic, which i may add is a conservatice magazine, so no one can accuse this magazine of having an anti american bias, considering its an american pro republican magazine site

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1349176/posts

  • BREAKING NEWS: According to Aussie Dave at Israellycool, autopsy suggests that Dr. Abu al-Aish’s daughters may have been killed by a Hamas-fired Qassam or Grad rocket.

  • Well CTC, a few years ago one of the Palestinian universities held a special event commemorating a suicide bombing where there was a recreation of the restaurant complete with fake flying (Jewish) body parts. Now if that’s not a public celebration sponsored by a public body and held for the wider public, I don’t know what is.

    Shikaki used to poll Palestinians’ reactions to suicide bombings in 2001 and 2002 and he would find over 75% support for this form of attack.

    But even so, Israel seeks to hit only military targets and avoid civilian ones. Don’t forget that Hamas warned the IDF that they were ready for them and Gaza would become a graveyard for IDF soldiers. This alone explains why Israel rapidly returns fire to its source and makes grave mistakes like killing this doctor’s family. However, they appear to be trying to avoid these casualties within the context of trying to ensure that they don’t get killed or captured by a Hamas that has been waiting for this incursion for a while.

  • CTC, why? Is it relevant to this discussion? Would you like me to list various Arab and Palestinian activities over the past hundred years?

  • Daniel Beauset if you are a jew then i say shalom to you, please study the holy quran and google “embryology in the holy quran and geology in the holy quran”

    the holy quran describes the phenomenon of continental shift and describes embryogenesis in incredible detail

    the worlds best embryologist keith L moore has studied the holy quran and admitted that its revelations concerning the developing human are true

    i want you to to convert to islam and go to heaven, please dont be trapped in a narrow ethnocentric cult like judaism or idol worshipping in christianity, open your eyes to the truth.

    peace

  • daniel remember the holy quran was revealed before the discovery of the compound microscope, and the development of the human embryo has only recently been uncovered, thanks to the electron microscope

    daniel did you know that the holy quran mentions the universe is expanding???

    because of this the catholic church had an oppostie veiw, saying the universe is constant, because god is constant, they burned alive anyone who questioned the catholics view of the universe, but thanks to modern science the holy quran has been explained.

  • well themiddle arabs are not gods “chosen” so that explains their behavior, but you jews are “chosen”, so how the hell can you explain your behavior?

    or are jews not “chosen”

    i have a radical concept for you jews, god cares for 6 billion humans equally, not only the jews

  • themiddle provide me with a link showing the university celebrating the event

    remember i have provided links for the facts i have stated

  • hehehehehe, some guys decides to open a forum to discuss wether the doctors daughters really died to idf fire and people automaticaly decide its the truth

    weapons of mass destruction in iraq anyone, this is how you guys started the war in iraq,lol

  • the doctors press conference was interrupted by a jewish woman,lol

    she is probably a settler, israeli settlers are all animals, good for being violent towards palestinians and nothing else

  • As a relative bystander from a far away country what always amazes me is that Israeli somehow want to portray Palestinians as triggerhappy death loving sub-humans. While they themselves are so concerned with even their enemies lives they only very reluctantly kill if they are -really- forced to.
    Why is it than that ever so often they deploy their massive firepower and destruction in densly populated areas killing thousends ?

    Frankly this ‘shoot now, cry later’ makes me sick to the bone !

    Another question I’d like to see answered is how on earth could you think what is happening with regard to the West-Bank settlements and apartheid stucture could ever be justified other than by accepting it as the most brutal sort of colonisation ?

    Are you aware Israel started starving Gaza even before Hamas were in power ?
    Are you aware Israel never opened borders although this was part of the truce deal w. Hamas ?
    Are you aware Hamas was observing the truce until the IDF restarted it’s incursions killing some 4 or 6 in Gaza ?

    Al in all the image arizes of Israel needing the Palestinians to be maginalized so the colonial scheme can be developed thereby indifferent to how many Palestinians are killed in the process.
    A definite racist stance.

  • ” As a relative bystander from a far away country what always amazes me is that Israeli somehow want to portray Palestinians as triggerhappy”

    8000 rockets, unprovoked, will do that to you.

    Did I mention suicide bombings?

    Did you know that before Israel re-entered Areas A which were under PA control in 2001, 2002, there were several thousands instances of Palestinian attacks on Israelis annually, most of them sniper fire?

    ” death loving”

    You’ve heard of suicide bombers in your far-away country, right?

    You understand what it means when Palestinian polls show vast public support for suicide bombings that target civilians, right?

    ” sub-humans.”

    A small minority of Jews and Israelis believes this. Sorry. Most seek to have peace and two states side by side.

    “While they themselves are so concerned with even their enemies lives they only very reluctantly kill if they are -really- forced to.”

    This is fairly accurate.

    “Why is it than that ever so often they deploy their massive firepower and destruction in densly populated areas killing thousends ?”

    Uh, first they wait for years and try other solutions. When it becomes unbearable or unpardonable, they repond. The Israelis could have done to Gaza what they’re doing now, a couple of years ago. They didn’t and they tried to avoid an incursion.

    The IDF has a real army with powerful weapons. Hamas knew this while launching thousands of rockets. War is fought to win with as few casualties as possible. You may be upset, but the IDF is doing its job with the resources it possesses. The alternative would be much bloodier.

    “Frankly this ’shoot now, cry later’ makes me sick to the bone !”

    Of course. You agree they should keep silent while more rockets rain down upon them with ever greater range.

    “Another question I’d like to see answered is how on earth could you think what is happening with regard to the West-Bank settlements and apartheid stucture could ever be justified other than by accepting it as the most brutal sort of colonisation ?”

    Well, I’m personally opposed to the settlements but the departure of all Jewish residents and soldiers from Gaza did not make the the Palestinians stop attacking Israel regularly. This makes departing the West Bank/Judea and Samaria very difficult.

    As for the security arrangements which lead to you calling this apartheid, blame the Palestinians for their war. There would be no security barrier, virtually no new safety roads, many fewer checkpoints….and a smaller number of settlements and the ones that exist would have grown less.

    “Are you aware Israel started starving Gaza even before Hamas were in power ?”

    It never “starved” Gaza. Water, electricity and food was coming in regularly. When they shut the borders and checkpoints, it’s because that’s where Hamas and other groups have tried to smuggle in bombers.

    “Are you aware Israel never opened borders although this was part of the truce deal w. Hamas ?”

    Not true. It opened them and had to promptly close them after a barrage of rockets that hit after the truce came into effect. Also, if you mean completely open borders, that was never part of any deal.

    “Are you aware Hamas was observing the truce until the IDF restarted it’s incursions killing some 4 or 6 in Gaza ?”

    Untrue. While rockets were not raining down at an average of 100-150 a month, they were dropping at a rate of 10-20 a month.

    “Al in all the image arizes of Israel needing the Palestinians to be maginalized so the colonial scheme can be developed”

    Is that why Israel entered into Oslo negotiations and offered the Palestinians a state in 2000? Is that why historically, the Jews have agreed to divide the land in 1937, 1947 and again in 2000 while the Arabs always said no?

    ” thereby indifferent to how many Palestinians are killed in the process.”

    Entirely untrue. Israel could have attacked Gaza years ago.

    “A definite racist stance.”

    Oh and I thought we were talking about war and politics. Racism? No. Self-defense? Yes.

  • Thank you for explaning the Israeli point of view. Cutting a few corners it’s an understandable one.
    But cutting corners here is obviously very dangerous.

    From these statistics I deduct the truce actually worked;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2008

    (12 rockets in four months, probably fired by militant factions such as Islamitic Jihad, nowwhere an excuse for operation ‘Cast Lead’.)

    About the blockade;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_blockade

    ” * After Israel’s unilateral disengagement plan from the Gaza strip, Israel no longer occupied Gaza with troops until the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict. However, it retained control over Gaza’s airspace and coastline, and over its own border with the territory. It also controlled the flow of goods, including fuel and energy supplies, in and out.[7]”

    about suicide bombings;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3256858.stm
    “Palestinians often attempt to explain the attacks as desperate acts or revenge born of their suffering under occupation. They point to the large number of Palestinian civilian deaths as a result of actions by the Israeli army.

    Polls taken in the West Bank and Gaza have in recent years suggested that about 60% of Palestinians support suicide attacks to some degree.

    At the beginning of 2005, when the Palestinian and Israeli leaders declared a ceasefire after four years of the Palestinian intifada or uprising, the leading Palestinian militant group Hamas declared it would “respect calm” – though it reserved the right to respond to Israeli attacks. Other groups followed suite. ”

    Tht’s 60% as opposed to 90% Israeli in favor of mass killing & destruction in Gaza….(as far as statistics go)

    About breaking the truce;
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

    This is easily interpreted as an Israeli provocation

    – War is fought to win with as few casualties as possible.

    Indeed Israel wants to impose it’s will on Palestinians by means of militairy force while all along serious talks, including with Hamas could have prevented the killing of thousands, including tens of Israeli.

    OK, I grant you the general outlook from the ‘silent majority’ of Israeli may be more one of self defence than of wilfull suppression but the outcome of the process is definitely one of supression.

    Some statistics about casualties;
    http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

    -Well, I’m personally opposed to the settlements but the -departure of all Jewish residents and soldiers from Gaza -did not make the the Palestinians stop attacking Israel -regularly. This makes departing the West Bank/Judea and -Samaria very difficult.

    Clear but still why than isn’t Abbas, the obvious ‘Peace partner’ for Israel at least given some air;
    http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3602626,00.html

    About the terrific peace-offer in Camp David, 2000;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit
    (read closely)
    The original offer was not acceptable to Arafat because of the conditions. But off the record negotiations continued. That the conditions could indeed be better for the Palestinians was proven when finally at the Taba negotiations they were just a hair away from a final peace agreement.
    In steps mr ‘Sabra-Shatila Sharon’ and the rest is history….

    “Clinton’s initiative led to the Taba negotiations in January 2001, where the two sides published a statement saying they had never been closer to agreement (though such issues as Jerusalem, the status of Gaza, and the Palestinian demand for compensation for refugees and their descendants remained unresolved), but Barak, facing elections, resuspended the talks.[8] The increased violence led to a sharp swing to the right in Israeli politics; Ehud Barak was defeated by Ariel Sharon in 2001.”

    So it seems the Israeli public choose war instead of peace in the 2001 elections….
    I hope someday this trend is reversed, imagine….

  • No Boris, Israel’s message to the world is “We waited and waited and they kept firing at us with rockets that became more sophisticated, longer-reaching and more dangerous over time. We can no longer wait and while we will do our utmost to protect civilians in Gaza from harm, it is our duty first to protect our citizens and we hope to do this by hitting Hamas with a powerful blow that will change the status quo and bring relief from their unprovoked attacks and continued preparations for war.”