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  • Muffti doesn’t see how ‘u.s. involvement’ = hawkishness, nor how claiming that Palestineans must control violence and recognize Israel = hawkishness, nor how claiming the statue of settlement freezes counts as hawkishness.

    a. One who demonstrates an actively aggressive or combative attitude, as in an argument.
    b. A person who favors military force or action in order to carry out foreign policy.

    The only case of hawkishness seems to be the attack on Iran and involves american security, not just Israel’s.

  • grandmuffti — We’re calling it hawkishness because that’s how the different sides are describing it in the American Jewish community.

    On the issue of U.S. involvement in the peace process, J Street & co. have made part and parcel of their dovish advocacy a call for increased U.S. involvement and for the Obama administration to pressure Israel, where hawks are calling for the Obama administration to let Israel handle things more on its own.

    On the point of Palestinians controlling violence and recognizing Israel, it’s not that those are exclusively hawks’ issue (though they probably are more often), but something of a “what comes first” that divides right & left in America. If you push for an immediate settlement freeze and the creation of a Palestinian state — and only later talk about what concessions the Palestinians should make in response — you’re more in the dove/left camp; if you push for the Palestinians to stop violence and recognize Israel — and only later talk about what concessions Israel should make in response — you’re more in the hawk/right camp. Obviously, things get a lot more complex than that simple dichotomy, but for the broad strokes, that’s how the politics have played out.

    Now, you seem to disagree that those should be what defines hawk/dove and right/left, but whether or not one thinks those should be the dividing lines between left and right, those are the lines that left and right have drawn in the U.S.

  • Interesting…so someone who is dead set against the use of military force but insists that a Palestinian state comes with a recognition of Israel counts as a ‘hawk’? i.e. could one on this labeling literally be a pacifist hawk?

  • Chickenhawk?

    Any kid on a college campus that calls him or herself “pro-Israel” is now deemed a hawk, a zionist running dog, neocon, etc…

    Honestly, I don’t care what I’m called. All I care about is the safety of my family in Israel and the safety of the Jewish People. Call me a “ready-to-nuker” if you like. I quit valuing what my enemies call me on day 2.

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