Amira Hass is angry at Israel for its “hostile rule” over the Palestinians. Today, in her latest of a years-long series of attacks on Israel that might as well have been written by the Hamas politburo, Amira brings us the sad story of a 12 year old Palestinian boy who, according to his own story, did absolutely nothing wrong. Nothing at all. However, he was arrested by soldiers anyway and taken to a military hearing. He says the soldiers told him to say he threw stones and that initially he did, but not only was he lying, but he didn’t even know what a slingshot was.
Amira notes that “even” the Israeli military judge smiled at this obvious injustice. The story, she tells, is only known to us because of 3 pro-Palestinian Israeli activists who were there to monitor the hearing.
Okay, so we learn that the IDF allows activists to monitor its justice. We learn that a 12 year old Palestinian has apparently never watched TV, because rock-throwing youths are shown often on Arab television networks. Yes, with slingshots. We’re supposed to learn that soldiers have nothing better to do than grab a totally innocent 12 year old and waste their time and the military judicial system’s time with fabrications. And we learn that Israel has a free press that permits these calumnies to be published time and again.
Interesting, then, that Ynet reported today about three 15 year olds who were captured at a checkpoint carrying explosives and knives. This was the fifth incident over the past weeks to take place at this checkpoint, which isn’t far from the junction where an Israeli soldier (of Druze descent, by the way) was murdered in a stabbing last week.
From this we learn that the pro-Palestinian activists who monitor the military’s judicial system do not have any beneficial impact on the Palestinian groups that seek to kill Jews. We learn that 15 year old boys watch TV where they see their government and other Arab governments extol the virtues of those who attack Jews, including youths. We learn that Palestinians will put children at risk by letting them play a role in the war against Israel. We learn the Palestinians aren’t too worried because they know the kids will be treated well by Israel.
Finally, in reading these stories juxtaposed, it is hard to regard Amira Hass as a reporter and not a propagandist.
What we learn ultimately, and again, is that Amira Hass is full of crap.
And thank you for your time, Charlotte. If you change your mind, feel free to come back. I’d love to hear your answers to my last questions.
I would like to stay polite and decided to end our conversation, which was very interesting and I thank you for your time.
No, Charlotte. I do not mislead and I do not make mistakes. I read and follow this conflict extremely carefully and while my opinions may differ from others’ the one thing I don’t do is “dehumanize” the Palestinians. Some of my reporting may deepen anger (not hatred, anger) towards them, but I am reporting carefully.
Let’s review this post, for example. I wrote about Palestinians,
The first statement is absolutely correct and it has been this way for years. The second statement is absolutely correct and has been this way for years. The third statement is correct and actually verified by Amira Hass in her article.
This is dehumanization? Would you prefer that I didn’t report about these things at all? These are among the most critical issues confronting both Israel and Palestinian society. They are among the key reasons that peace remains so far away.
How many voices in Palestinian society are equivalent to yours or to that of Amira Hass in Israeli society? Since those voices are rarely heard, while much more strident voices dominate their politics, news and television, how do you expect peace to come about? By teaching their children to hate and fight?
You have no problem ascribing such motivations to Israeli settlers in Judea and Samaria, however. You do this even though they don’t send their children and teenagers to support military attacks, they don’t have cartoons on TV showing the murder of Palestinians and only a minority of settlers can be considered to have “other values” than the rest of Israel. Most settlers, actually, support the state and its positive values very strongly. They will also support a peace program that demands they leave Judea and Samaria. Only a minority won’t.
To remind you, when we left Gaza, after the settlers used their right to freedom of expression in Israel’s democracy to contest the government’s decision, when the time finally came to evict them from Gaza, they demonstrated but left peacefully. There was one case of a settler throwing acid in a soldier’s face. You talk about not demonizing Palestinians but then you unfairly do it with settlers.
Amira Hass does not tell Israeli society the hard things they don’t want to hear. She tells Israeli society things that are twisted by her to represent Israel’s enemies’ viewpoints. She misinterprets events consistently, to a point where I don’t even think she does it intentionally. Instead, I think she has come to believe her own propaganda (well, except when she had to leave Gaza in a real hurry a few weeks ago, after apparently being threatened by Palestinians. From what I read, she made her way quickly to the border crossings with Israel and got out. I’m sure that she would blame Israel for that as well).
You have to answer a simple question, Charlotte. After the Palestinians rejected the offers made in 2000, 2001 and 2008 and in each case gave us a war, why do you think that we need to focus our energies to “change society” on the Israelis? Well, okay, one more question: The Israelis have now offered a two-state solution 3 times and also agreed to one in 1938 and 1947. Why are all of your and Amira Hass’s energies not focused on changing Palestinian society?
I see that we find a way to understand each other a little bit, but I do not agree with your last remark at all.
Israel was established after the worst crimes against humanity was done to theJewish people, also I lost more than half of my family during the holocaus. We need Israel to be a strong and justice state based on human rights and justice and have to take care of this very much. Amira Hass is very important as she states things which are hard to hear for Israeli ears, but are important to know so that we can change our ways and become a better state with a just army. This does not undermine Israel but the bad ways of the Israeli settlers in the West Bank, whom believe in other values and make the whole Israeli society pay for their dream with no possibilty for peace.
Concerning the Palestinian societ I have to tell you that you mistake and you are missleaded by the media like many in Israel and world wide.Both societies are misleaded by the media and politicians who want to deepen the hatered and dehuminzation of the other side. If every one will see the humanity of the other we can make a srep towards change, seeing first his own mistakes and coming to talks a neighbours who respect the others right, without leaving his rights and dreams behind. This would a real first step.
It isn’t your land, but it is also not the land of the Palestinians. It is unassigned land. It could be Palestine, if the Palestinians would negotiate in good faith and agree to peace, but until then calling it “Palestine” is no different than calling it “Judea and Samaria” or “West Bank.”
You see? We agree completely.
That’s what I do. Read my article on “Leaving the West Bank.” I have ideas for Israelis, not just Palestinians. 😉
Yes, except for one important detail. If you unilaterally disarm or undermine the Israeli side, while the Palestinian society continues on a war footing and does not change itself, you are potentially putting Israel in greater danger. This article about Amira Hass is a perfect example. She writes to criticize the IDF for their actions regarding a young boy. Readers around the world read it and view Israel negatively. This weakens Israel and creates obstacles the next time it wants to arrest a young offender since now we are talking about whether it is moral to do so. However, on the same day she wrote the story, three Palestinian boys, not much older than this boy, were arrested carrying explosives and knives. This proves the necessity of such actions by Israel and it shows how articles by people like Hass trying to change Israeli society can actually undermine Israel and its security.
The West Bank is not my land, I would like to call it like the people call it whom are living here and this is Palestine.
Not like many people whom live here I was lucky enough to live part of my life out of the country and I decided to return to Israel after being outside 5 years returning here in 1994 to another area, which I did not realy was able to understand. Only after the second Intifada started I learned what not having Peace means and I also was able to see the pain it caused to many Israeli and Palestinians whom lost somebody to the conflict. I was lucky enough to meet people who do not believe in revenge and will do anything in order to stop other people whom are living here no to join the circle of violence and bereavement. Personally I do not care if someone is Israeli or Palestinian everyone has the right to live in safety and peace.I believe that we are neighbours who need to learn how to live side by side, for this we need to learn how to respect each other.Many people live from our conflict it creates working places if in the war nor peace buisness. Concerning your or other people ideas I think we should hear them, but we need people instead of taking parts for one side, taking part towards a solution. Telling both to the Israelis and to the Palestinians what they do wrong, and what they have to change.
As an Israeli I have first of all safe my society and people, in order that we will continue living in an democratic state and not like some people want a “Halacha state”. Concerning the mistake of the Palestinians towards their own society I say what I think to my Palestinian friends, whom have to work to change their society whom are under developed and has many wrngs, but they have to take responsibilty and not us for them.
Charlotte, you are free to read what I write or to ignore it. You are free to act on what I write or to ignore it. I am nothing more than a voice on the Internet. Besides, how do you know you don’t like me? I’m a sweet person. Really.
I am curious, though, why you insist on calling it “West Bank.” Jordan has no legal claim over this piece of land and never did. The name implies that the west bank of the Jordan River as equal in status to the east bank of the Jordan River, which is, of course, the state of Jordan. Even if you don’t approve of calling this area by its historical Hebrew names, Yehuda and Shomron (Judea and Samaria), why do you insist on legitimizing Jordanian rule that was nothing more than a temporary occupation?
Be careful about one thing, Charlotte, when you write that you will not accept my ideas since I do not share your lives in Israel. Be careful that you don’t let the ideas of others run your life as well. There are many people in the world who don’t live there and who are trying to influence your life, and they don’t like you as much as I do.
Yes, I do not like people whom live out of Israel and do not take part in our hard life to justify sending Israeli youngster to the West Bank, and I do not call it Yehuda and Sameria.
I want our youngster to have the quite and nice life other Jewish youngster have in Europe and America. You never will hear me talking against going to the IDF, as I believe that in order that Israeli will continue to be we need a strong and justice Army, but what is happening in the terretories does not secure Israel at all, it weakness us in – and outside.
You have the same right like left or right to talk about your believes, but do not expect me or others to accept you or others to make decisions for us, as you do not share our life.
I have family and friends in Israel.
There are plenty of people who don’t live in Israel who have no problem criticizing Israel, and I suspect that you don’t mind so much when they comment. You mind more, and this is natural, when somebody from outside Israel says things with which you disagree.
I have no idea what you mean by your list. I am also first of all human. So was Yasser Arafat.
I didn’t ask you to justify anything. I said something different. I said that if you were truly interested in peace, you would be lobbying the Palestinians to come to the table in good faith.
Israel sends its youngsters to Judea and Samaria – I don’t understand why you keep calling it by a name an occupying country, Jordan, gave this piece of land – because it has no choice. In the years between 1999 and 2002, when Israel was outside Areas A, the number of Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians was in the thousands, including dozens of suicide bombings. Since Israel returned in 2002, the number has dropped and has continued to drop consistently.
That’s what Israel’s youngsters are doing in the “West Bank.” Do you know what else they are doing? They are protecting Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad from attacks or a Hamas insurrection. Without Israeli youngsters there, the PA would be gone in a short time. The Israeli youngsters are also there because they have to ensure that the Palestinians don’t do what they do in Gaza and fire rockets at Israeli towns or the Ben Gurion Airport.
My guess is that many Israelis know what is going on in Judea and Samaria, but they approve of sending their youngsters there because the Palestinians have made it necessary.
Of course Hamas and the PA are your problem. You don’t live in a vacuum and Israel doesn’t have an army because it’s fun. This is a war. Now, when one side disarms unilaterally, which is what you want Israel to do, then the other side doesn’t drop its weapons and sing peace songs. They would simply keep attacking, which is exactly what happened when Israel left Gaza. Do you remember that? Israel left Gaza, but the attempted terror attacks and the rocket attacks continued. Don’t you realize that this undermines your idea that you can just make demands from the Israelis?
Now, before you walk away all angry, you should read a previous post that I wrote. I am not sure that it still holds up, but the post and the conversation that follows should enlighten you that you are not conversing with some right-wing ideologue. It’s called “Leaving the West Bank.”
I did think if to take the time and respond you, and decided to answer you although I did not like your attack on me and Amira Hass and think that as someone who lives abroad and is not part of the Israeli society you allow yourself a lot.
I am first of all human, secondly Israeli and third Jewish, I served like all Israelis in the IDF and many things which good Israelis are supposed to do. Do I need to justify the love to my people to you? My answer is no, what I do or say is out of love to my people, and I know that if many knew what is happening really in our name. We would stop sending our youngsters to the West Bank.
Hamas and PA are not my problem, I have a lot of criticism towards them, but it is not my people nor my country to change. The Palestinian should take responsibilty for their affairs.
I am missing in your report the Jewish hearth, we are talking about a 12 year old child which also if doing something wrong is a minor and should be abtained according to specific rulings for minors. Israel is a democratic state but when talking about the citizens right of the Palestinians their is no law and no rights, their are the Army laws which were made by the British in the first and second world war.
Every person if adult or minor, if Israeli, Western or Palestinian should have the option to get a real trial based on international human right laws/
Amira Hass is someone who is for years pointing out to the Israeli society the injustice and inhumanity of the Israeli occupation, which is first of us hurting the soul of our youngster’s, who are firced to do things in the Army which they were not educated to do,bringing them in situation in which they have to forget that they are only humans like the Palestinians whom they are traumatizing with their behaviour daily.
Please come and see yourself if you would like to stand before any Army court as a Palestinian and see how arrest are done. Before attacking a journalist whom is reporting what is happening on the ground, so that one day the Israeli society will be able to stop this injustice, and people have a normal life Jews in Europe and America can.
The Jewish heart is certainly in my report, Charlotte. I’m Jewish, my heart was beating when I wrote the post and it continues to beat at this moment.
You are upset that the detained 12 year old is a minor. So are the 15 year old boys. Yet, they were used to carry explosives and knives. How is an Israeli soldier supposed to know which youth is innocent and which is carrying weapons? Shouldn’t that soldier be cautious at all times?
You are upset that the Palestinians live under military rule. Well, in Gaza they live under Hamas rule and in Judea and Samaria they live under Palestinian Authority and Israeli military rule. These situations could have ended in 2000, 2001 or 2008 when Israel offered peace and a state to the Palestinians, but in each case, they said “no” and preferred more war. As a consequence, they are subject to Israeli military justice. This is international law. In fact, this situation has been confirmed by the UN Security Council’s Resolution 242 and affirmed in 338. Security Council resolutions of a certain form, including 242 and 338 are considered to be international law.
Amira Hass is someone who, for years, has written articles attacking Israel with a slant that is so pervasive, that she may as well simply write in the op-ed section of Ha’aretz and directly copy her stories to the PA and Hamas public spokespeople. The presence of Israeli troops among the Palestinian population is a terrible thing and it undermines Israeli society, on this we agree. I don’t think, however, they are traumatizing Palestinians daily, or weekly. They aren’t there for fun. They are there because of real security needs. As my post points out, the three boys were captured with explosives.
If you and Amira Hass want a normal society for the Palestinians, where they live in peace without any Israeli soldiers ruling over them, you and she should expend ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS trying to convince the Palestinians that peace is in their best interest; that they should come to the negotiating table in good faith and be ready to compromise just as the Israeli have agreed to compromise; that they need to give up on the idea that they will somehow bring their masses into Israel; and that they must recognize Israel as a Jewish state. At that point, they will gain peace.
The parameters of a peace deal have been on the table since 2001. There’s no mystery here, and continuing to complain about Israeli “injustices” without lobbying and demanding from the Palestinians that they negotiate in good faith for peace is hypocritical at least, and in fact can be fairly described as malicious and supportive of more war. Stop being malicious and supportive of more war, Charlotte, and start lobbying all of your Palestinian friends and pro-Palestinians compatriots to demand from the PA and Hamas that they change their charters, negotiate in good faith and come to a peace agreement with Israel.