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Pigua in Netanya.

19 years ago
76 Comments
by michael
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For the second time since July, Netanya has been the target of a terrorist attack, again at the Sharon Mall. 5 people are dead and at least 40 wounded. The attack was carried out by a suicide bomber, and, currently, both the Fatah’s al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade and Islamic Jihad have claimed responsibility. The suicide bomber most likely entered from the West Bank, only a few miles from Netanya – the nearby West Bank town Tulkarm has been a major hotbed of terrorist activity.

It’s worthwhile to remind everyone that Fatah is the ruling party in the Palestinian Authority. When a party can’t rein in its own goons, it’s extremely doubtful that they can cause any meaningful change in Palestinian regions. Of course, this doesn’t stop the nations of the world, including the increasingly politically incompetent-seeming US administration, from propping up Abbas who has so far proven to be useless at best and terror-enabling at worst. Quoth perpetual mealy-mouthed worm Saeb Erakat:

“This operation… against civilians causes the most serious harm to our committment to the peace process and the Palestinian Authority will not go easy on whoever is found to be responsible for this operation,” the statement
quoted him as saying.

Yeah. Because the Palestinian Authority has a great track record with firmly cracking down on terror.

Updating coverage at Ynet, Jpost and Haaretz.

May the families of the victims be comforted together with all the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem.

michael
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  • well i’ll be damned if that wasn’t predictable. my grandma was from a little town/village half a day from czernowitz. i can’t even come close to knowing how to spell it though. wolczenitz or something like that.

  • Czernivtsi/Czernowitz. Also notable as the home of brilliant poet Paul Celan, Hava Nagila, and Nathan Birnbaum’s 1908 Yiddish language conference.

  • Heh. The city my family is from wound up right over the border in Ukraine too after the USSR broke up. I guess this means you’re like my Romanian/recently Ukrainian homegirl. Represent.

  • that’s intense. my grandmother was from a village near the border, which is in the ukraine now. anyway i’m pretty sure she and my great-grandmother and aunt left after the war.

  • I agree with Ofri.

    Nothing really possessed my family to stay. They didn’t really have any opportunity to leave. My grandmother wanted to stay with her adopted grandfather, the gentile who had saved her (she was the only survivor of her family), and in any case, the part of Moldavian Romania that my family lived in was under Soviet control, incorporated into the Ukrainian SSR, from the day the war ended.

  • whoaaah, i would like to see that report. also your use of hyperbole to make a point is getting on my nerves, i must say. no one has claimed that all palestinians are peace-loving blah blah but they are people, and we can’t kill people for wanting to kill us until they actually try. i hope you see how that makes sense. even if 75% of them hate us and want us dead, that doesn’t justify killing 75% or 100% or .000001% of them until they attack. sadly, i believe that the only way Israel can survive as a moral state – and yes, sue me, i do believe that “Jewish morality” is important – is by staying on the defensive, maybe forever. but not as an occupying force.

    also, michael, what possessed your family to stay in Romania after WWII?

  • Like you said, Israel’s got the planes. So why aren’t they using them? And I mean like every hour on the hour.

    Just so we’re clear, you support killing all of the terrorists who are supposedly strongarming the peace-loving paleostinians into joining terrorist organizations against their will, right? Or are you going to fudge on that now too? Supporting kiling terrorist “bigwigs” won’t get the job done. And if these terrorist groups are supposedly terrorizing the civilians so much, don’t you think it would be a good idea for Israel to reoccupy Yesha, drive out the terrorists like they drove them out of Lebanon, and free the innocnet paleostinians from their dastardly clutches?

    I do not believe for one single second that even a complete withdrawal from “Yesh” (that includes Jerusalem, of course) will bring a paleostinian state. Anyone who thinks that this is really about their lack of a state is deluding themselves. They will find something else to compain about (“right of return”, blah blah blah) and they will pressure the Europeans to back them in their “just demands”. And once they have their “state” there will be incredible pressure on Israel not to lift a finger to protect itself.

    And, yes, thousands of Arabs are indeed leaving the terriroties. I have seen the research that supports this contention. Why are you inclined to believe PA proaganda about the “demographic time bomb”? Just because it’s not “right-wing Messianist fantasy”?

    And it turns out a lot of them are moving to Israel. I read a report that states that about 50,000 of them have moved into Israel in the last 5 years. Why Israel allows this to happen is beyond me.

  • Why do I advocate evacuating Yesha, or as I guess we should call it now, “Yesh” (doesn’t mean salvation anymore, but at least it means “there is”)? Well, for most of the standard reasons, of which the chiefest is the ability to rid Israel of having to worry about 3+ million Palestinians under its jurisdiction. I don’t see any societal benefits to holding onto the territories. They’re not exactly economic powerhouses, they tie up troops at checkpoints or at settlements and put them in danger, and they’re populated by a growing and angry non-Jewish population who aren’t planning on going anywhere, despite the optimistic fantasies of Messianist right-wingers who insist that thousands of Palestinians are leaving every month.

    As far as killing every single member of all the myriad groups committed to Israel’s destruction, well, let me give you an example. My family is from a Romanian town that, after WWII, became part of Communist Russia. My grandfather was forced to be a member of the Communist Party in order to get work. My mother was inducted into the Party at school. Do you think they were communists? Of course not. But they had to be in the Party anyway because otherwise their livelihoods and lives were forfeit. In Palestinian areas, terrorist groups control entire towns. Many people join because they’re strongarmed into it, or offered economic incentive that is not forthcoming from the government, or they’re just illiterate morons who don’t know any better, like the guy who just blew himself up in Netanya. Hell, Hamas has a charitable fund. This doesn’t mean that Hamas and all the other groups shouldn’t be dismantled, but it does mean that affiliation with them is not necessarily fair grounds for execution.

    I’m all for targeted killings of terrorist bigwigs and obvious committed terrorists. To let them run around would be stupid. But that’s a far cry from, as Grace so poetically put it, “putting [all Palestinians] about 6 feet due south of their current position.”

    Terrorist sympathy, while unadmirable, is not a crime. It’s not grounds for killing. I sympathize with the Etzel. I would be nonplussed if I was hanged for that.

    Let them have their state. Do you really think we can hold on to Judea and Samaria forever? If they continue attacking, Israel’s got planes. They can do to Palestinian terrorist groups what they did to Hizbullah a couple weeks ago, and this time it’ll be an international, not occupational, conflict.

  • Michael, if you believe in carrying the fight to the enemy, why do you advocate evacuating Yesha and hiding behind a wall?

    Carrying the fight to the terrorists means just that: killing them before they kill more Jews. This will require a lot more strikes like the most recent one in Gaza. In that process, some Arabs who may not be terrorists will be killed. This is unfortunate, but the fact that they hide behind women and children will make this inevitable. So Israel must make a choice: whose lives are more important? Israelis or paleostinian terrorists and (some) paleostinian civilians? The Arabs are banking on Israel to shy away from taking the necessary steps, and so far they have been correct in their guess. The famed “Jewish morality” is preventing Israel from doing what any sane person or country would do: kill the enemy before he kills you. I see nothing moral in allowing them to kill Jews first, especially when Israel knows they are going to do it and has the means to stop them.

    I’m using hyperbole to make a point, ofri. I do not advocate genocide and I don’t believe that paleostinian goats are terrorists. And I am willing to entertain the notion that some paleostinians aren’t terrorists.

    However, the famed paleostinian moral “silent majority” that everyone believes wants to believe exists is pretty friggin’ silent. And if polls are to be believed, more than 75% of paleostinians would support continued homicide bombings against Israel even after a paleostinian state is established in Yesha. So, I must assume that if all paleostinians aren’t terrorists, at least 3/4 of them are, if not terrorists themselves, at least terrorist sympathizers. What conclusions do you draw from that? And what do you propose Israel should do about it?

    Defeating paleostinian terrorism will not require anything resembling genocide. But it will require a lot more proactive, targeted military action by Israel against terrorists and their facilities.

    But, just as a thought experiment, what would you propose to do if all of the paleostinians actually were terrorists and it was necessary to kill most of them in order to protect Israel and Jews?

    For example, we know for a fact that Hizb’allah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other such organizations (including the PA IMNSHO) are indeed dedicated to the proposition that Israel must cease to exist. We must therefore assume that this means they intend to kill the Jews who live there. So, it is safe to assume that their goal is genocide against the Jews, correct? And we know that they have put, and will continue to put, their beliefs into practice, correct? So, I can assume that you believe it is legitimate to kill out of hand anyone known to be a member of such groups, no questions asked, correct?

    This is what I am advocating, not rounding up the Arabs, stealing everything they own, performing “medical” experiments” on them, gassing them, removing their gold teeth and their hair, and then burning the bodies.

    That is what Nazis do. And it is not the same thing as doing everything you can to defend yourself against an enemy that you know would kill you if given the chance.

  • Did I ever say “don’t kill terrorists”? No. I’m all for carrying the fight to the enemy. I just don’t happen to think every Palestinian man, woman, child, olive tree and goat is the enemy.

    I mean, maybe this is a revolutionary idea, but I kind of think that genocide is…y’know…wrong. There’s a difference between “Jewish resolve” and “taking a page from the Nazi playbook.”

    Eh, fuck it. Why should I have to defend being anti-genocide against you people? If you’re so morally debased that you think it’s acceptable to kill 3 or 4 million people, then I can’t help you. If I remind you of the Jew who doesn’t want to make trouble, then you remind me of the Nazi. Which is worse to be?

  • ephraim, are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really believe that all palestinians are terrorists?

  • So, Michael, fear of reprisals is the reason not to carry the fight to the enemy?

    Way to impress the terrorists with Jewish resolve. No wonder they think that there’s no reason to stop. You remind me of the old joke about the two Jewish spies who were caught by the Nazis. They are lined up in front of the firing squad and the head Nazi asks if they want blindfolds. One of them spits in the Nazi’s face. The other one pleads “Please, Moshe! Don’t make trouble!”

    And why is killing terrorists genocide? No one has really explained that to me.

  • Give them a state in Gaza and most of the West Bank and build a very high wall. I guarantee you, the results will be better than indulging your mass murder fetish.

    I suppose it’s very easy to advocate actions that would lead to massive reprisal when it’s not your apartment the missiles will be raining down on, eh?

  • And there’s the ironically-named Grace again with the great political foresight and casual advocacy of genocide.

    It’s good that apparently some of our people have taken the right lesson from the Holocaust, which of course is that if you have a problem, it’s best to solve it by murdering a few million people.

    Way to be Jewish! Maybe you should move to Kiryat Arba and follow in the footsteps of your pal Baruch ha-Gever. It’s what we’re here for, right?

  • They won Gaza, and they are going to (G-d forbid) win Samaria and Judea, and keep on winning, unless they get put in their place once and for all.

    I’ll leave it up to you to decide where “their place” should be.

    (My preference is to put them about 6 feet due south of their current position.)

  • They are certainly winning politically, and in the sphere of public opinion – without every really letting up for a minute on their brutal techniques.

    Look where they were before they started hijacking planes in the 1970s – and look where they are now.

    Why should they stop?

  • Digital, nobody’s winning on the Palestinian side. When was the last time they got through? How many didn’t get through who have tried over the past months?

  • My comment came from my experiences with many of you in the blog world. Some of you like (e.g., Ben David, Jobber) understand what I am feeling. I think the situation is very simple. Jews being killed + past failures kow towing and trying to appease the P.A.= need for more extreme response. They just don’t care cause they see Israel buckling under the pressure. Look how commonplace suicide attacks have become. WE’ve learned to accept them in our everyday lives… Their winning, we’re losing

  • Thanks for that catalogue, middeleh.

    To which I add: NONE of these reasons are the responsibility of the attacked. Those attacked have NO responsibility to “understand” the attackers’ motivation(s) – beyond what may be helpful in halting/destroying them.

    Ofri – sorry if I misunderstood you.

  • People explode themselves because they believe that they are doing god’s bidding. In this case, they believe that murder of all Jews – or at least sufficient numbers that the state of Israel is eradicated – is what god wants them to do. In Sri Lanka they do it because they think they should be in control. In Iraq they do it because they see the American as the infidel who is trespassing on their sovereign land. Ditto for Saudi Arabia. In Bali they do it to punish people of other faiths whom they perceive as enemies.

    Mostly, they do it because their perception of the world is deranged and they believe that attacking, maiming and murdering innocent people benefits their cause or their faith. Deadly stupid, isn’t it?

  • ben david – no shit the PA is doing things wrong. i was responding to DiGiTaL’s comment,
    “What’s another 5 Jews gone anyway? Blog fodder for a bunch of people sitting at the computer to argue about current policy and/or comment what the PA is doing wrong, or not doing at all? How many more need to die??”

    which i didn’t understand. where in my comment did you get that i was blaming ourselves for these atrocities?

  • Exactly, only by making the people’s lives a living hell, will the people demand that the terrorists stop. You had that happen in Psagot, when the Israelis were responding harshly on the fancy arab homes, those arabs were up in arms, so to speak, against the terrorists, so they stopped terrorism from there.

    It would be ugly, but it would work. Nothing else can work that is the point. Unless Israel would, you know bend over and do whatever the terrorists want, Chas VeShalom.

  • Ofri –
    Have the PA done something wrong, or haven’t they?
    It’s almost 20 years since Oslo began – for almost 15 years the agreements have stated that the Palis will crack down on terror with their expanding sovereignty.

    Has that happened?

    Who should we be talking about/blaming? Ourselves? That’s a typical leftie inversion – our appeasement of the Arabs hasn’t gotten us anywhere, and they are unresponsive to our demands/pleas – so we’ll turn it in on ourselves because at least that gets a response.

    Whether or not it’s real, or the truth, or healthy.

    The Palis ARE doing something wrong. They SHOULD be held to their side of the agreements. That IS an appropriate response to this incident.

  • how many more jews need to die before… people stop blogging about what the PA is doing wrong? i fail to see the logic in your comment.

  • Is it a coincidence or what, that the mall which keeps getting bombed in Netanya is called “The Sharon”

    Why doesn’t he get the message?

  • What’s another 5 Jews gone anyway? Blog fodder for a bunch of people sitting at the computer to argue about current policy and/or comment what the PA is doing wrong, or not doing at all? How many more need to die??

  • Well it would have worked long ago. All right build a serious fence around this Tulkarem.

    The problem w/ liberals, is that they refuse to understand, that there is no logical argument that will remove the level of hatred that the Arab side has. Not every single one of them, but so many do.

    Unless they had a leadership that would be able to go along w/ the concessions that the Israelis want, there can’t possibly be a change of heart.

    That is why my idea is more correct, it would work.

  • It wasn’t Fatah…they refused the blame for this one real quick. Which of course by no means gives them a clean slate…

    Here’s hoping we can all bond together to help the families through the loss of their loved ones.

  • damn this “great wall” is the easiest barrier inhiostory to breah.All you do is go through the door.

  • causes the most serious harm to our committment to the peace process

    Herein lies the problem, and no Palestinian leader, high, low, or middle, has EVER properly denounced a bombing, to my knowledge.

    I have no problem saying: “Any deliberate attack on Palestinian civilians or attempt to terrorize Palestinians by severe harm to Palestinian civilians is an atrocity, and I will do everything in my power to prevent anyone from ever doing such a thing, whether my goverment, my army, my citizens, or anyone else in the world.”

    Why can’t a Palestinian ever say that about Israelis? It’s not “harm to the peace process”, you a**holes. It’s dead and mangled people, and it could have been your brother, sister, mother, or baby, and it might be next time. So end it, now.

    Yehuda

  • A terrible shame, it was quiet for so long.

    They need to flatten this Tulkarem, once and for all. They won’t do it, but they need to expel these people, give them 24 hours, take them to an interrogation center. Offer to relocate them to any country that will have them (hah), if not build tents for them somewhere. Then remove this Tulkarem from the map.