C-Span is widely respected as a fairly impartial broadcast network that records and broadcasts political events and important cultural events. They also have successful programming about new books and will often show readings, discussions and interviews with authors of new books.
Did I mention that while they follow politics assiduously with their programming, they are also impartial? They are.
They are observers more than anything else. They will place a camera in an interesting meeting, speech, congressional hearing, press briefing, etc. and simply play it back almost in its entirety, or at least with an attempt to represent the key elements of the event.
Unfortunately, somebody there is a little confused about impartiality, history and truth.
Deborah Lipstadt is professor of Holocaust Studies who was sued by David Irving for libel because she called him a Holocaust denier. He lost big time. The British High Court of Justice declared that Irving, who up until then was widely respected as a prominent and superb historian of World War II, was in fact an anti-semite and whose racism and hatred of Jews colored his publications. You can read the trial at this site and go to Section XIII to read the verdict where Irving is crushed by the judge for his antisemitism, racism, and the ruin of his work as a historian as a result.
Lipstadt has recently come out with a new book about the trial, “History on Trial: My Day in Court with David Irving.” She was going to discuss the book at the Harvard Hillel and C-Span asked to film the event. Lipstadt was inclined to agree, until she learned…
idiots masterminds of impartiality at C-Span were going to also have a David Irving lecture broadcast together with her talk.
What is wrong with some people? Where have we come where all truths, no matter how false or pernicious, become equal? How can C-Span give equal time and representation to an anti-semite Holocaust denier whose work is tainted with his irrational hatred? They are planning to give this man, a man who was slapped hard by the highest court in England for his egregious beliefs, broadcast time on a highly respected network so that he can express his views on par with that of Lipstadt’s.
There are all kinds of petitions opposing this broadcast circulating now, and organizations such as the ADL sending C-Span letters. However, C-Span doesn’t seem very contrite. As far as they are concerned, they were merely doing their job (and the only thing missing is Lipstadt’s permission to tape her). Impartially.
The incredible stupidity of these people is amazing.
Is Jewlicious attempting to ignore the abysmal left-wing protest in Tel Aviv this Saturday night?
So many on this site go on and on about the widespread support for the withdrawal from Gaza. Well, on a Saturday night – with the recent blocking of a major highway still upsetting fresh in Tel-Avivian’s minds – the left could barely scrape up 10,000 people.
This is less than the number of active-duty soldiers that have signed petitions indicating that they would not serve in the withdrawal – at considerable risk of imprisonment and prosecution.
The right/pro-settler protests have regularly drawn 200,000 people to Tel Aviv on weekday evenings – and last Independence Day, over 1/4 million Israelis got in their cars and headed to Gaza to show solidarity.
So WHO has widespread support?
There’s a reason the settlers are willing to abide by a referendum – and why the lefties who crow about democracy are scared shitless by the prospect.
Um, Ben David, we are not paid and we have lives and other things to which we attend. As a result, we sometimes can’t report everything and up to the minute news is no less challenging. For example, this C-Span story is from my reading the NY Times on Friday morning. I have just written it a little while ago on Sunday morning.
Relax, I still want to cover a couple of things and maybe we’ll get to this piddly show of support for the disengagement. Or maybe it’s piddly because the supporters are just confident it will go through and don’t care anymore. What do you think of C-Span?
I think we should boycott C-Span (except for when they broadcast the British House of Commons because that’s too ridiculous to not watch).
I think this is absurb for one reason: I understand that they don’t want to impose their morals and act like they are deciding who between Lipstadt and Irving is the more correct one, but the freaking British High Court already did that!!!
Idiots, really, idiots!
nothing intentional ben david, it was just, like, saturday night. scanning the news wasn’t my first priority. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
I read all the books related to the trial. I visit Irvings site to get a feel for how bright anti-Semites think. He’s no idiot. And he’s still respected in many, many circles. Personally, I don’t think CSPAN is going to give him air time. But as one Nazi commented on Deborah’s site: “How much did Irving pay you for all of this free advertising?”. Not a bad point. Because for a while, nobody ever heard of Irving. Now many people have.
So I have a few questions:
a) What was the point of her releasing her newest book? How much more has to be said about this trial?
b) To fight Holocaust denial, do you simply ignore the deniers, not debate ’em, or fight ’em in the public arena (I say this because Irving is getting plenty of time – simply by having people visit his site – to spread his message w/o anyone countering what he’s writing).
Remember, he ain’t no idiot. This isn’t your garden variety, white trash, imbred Nazi from Alabama. The guy speaks perfect German and has read many of the original Nazi documents pertaining to WW2. He’s considered to be an expert on Himmler as well as Hitler.
I did a project on holocaust denial in twelfth grade, and Shtreimel, I hear what you’re saying. I remember reading a report written by a “revisionist” that actually seemed so true I was freaked out–but then I looked into it and realized that while he had scientific studies backing his theories up, he graduated from college with a bachelors in art. He wasn’t even a scientist! Of course his “scientific expirements” were just fabricated to prove his points.
There’s nothing wrong with talking about Holocaust deniers or bringing them up. Know your enemy–right? The only way to counter something is to educate yourself, not by ignoring it.
“. He wasnâ€™t even a scientist! Of course his â€œscientific expirementsâ€ were just fabricated to”
I believe you’re refering to Fred Lechter.
You know, after watching the documentary done on Lecther, and reading about the trial (Irving vs. Penguin/Lipstadt) you can’t help but start wondering: Hmmm, what if everything I know about the Holocaust wasn’t exactly the way my Zaddie told me it was.
If nothing else, Irving forces us to take our history more seriously. If I met him, I’d thank him for making me a better educated Jew….and then I’d spit in his fucking face.
Have a nice 🙂
Yes! Thanks, I couldn’t remember his name: Fred Leuchter.
Most psychopaths are manipulative…like I said, ignorance or denial brings you nowhere, you need education to counter them. Sometimes, even a simple lesson like, “always remember to challenge what you’re told and check facts thrown at you,” is education enough.
Fred wasn’t a psychopath. Far from it. Actually, he was employed by a few Federal prisons to remodify their execution facilities. So when Zundel hired him to explore Aushwitz, it wasn’t as if he hired some goon from Stormfront. Clearly Fred knew something about the topic he was exploring. How he conducted his experiements and the results that he received is another matter.
Fred was a bit loonie, Shtreimel.
Have you seen Dr. Death by Errol Morris? It’s about Leuchter. Rent it and you’ll see how insane David Irving was to rely upon this idiot (as do most revisionists) and his Auschwitz “evidence.”
Here’s a solid review of the movie. I recommend you rent it. I also recommend you rent Thin Blue Line and Fog of War by Morris. The first film actually got an innocent man out of jail.
Oh, and Morris is Jewlicious.
Yeah I saw it, that was the doc film I was refering to. How does an idiot secure himself a contract with the Federal govt, work on, and improve their execution systems and then sneak into Aushwitz, steal samples from the grounds and send it in to be anaylzed for traces of Zyklon B. He was a liar and may have been an anti-Semite (hard to tell, seems more pathetic than anything else), but was he proved is that you can become quite adept in certain fields without a university education. Irving proves the same thing. I would take these guys very seriously.
I don’t understand your earlier comments and questions Shtreimel. Of all the people who should have written a book about the trial, Lipstadt stands as one of the 4 or 5 most important individuals (the others being the judge, her main lawyers and Irving).
It also allows her to go on the road and publicize it. That probably involves getting speaking fees and will drive sales. If I recall, she didn’t receive much help with the cost of the trial and may still have outstanding bills. Even if she doesn’t, as a professor she can’t be making that much money so book sales and paid speaking engagements probably help.
Also, regarding the free publicity for Irving, he sued her, not the other way around. The free advertising was his idea and it turned on him in a number of ways. He admitted things on the stand that ran counter to his previous work. For example, he admitted that the Einssatzgruppen methodically and systematically killed 1.5 million Jews in the first year and a half of the war. He then tried to retract the statement later in the trial but the cat was out of the bag. He also had to concede that in one case where 93,000 Jews were gassed in vans, it was no accident. Read the verdict from the link I provide and you’ll see other areas where Irving was beaten back.
Most important is that until that point, he had been considered a very competent historian and a leading Hitler scholar. The trial took that assessment of him and turned it on its head because it became clear that his “scholarship” was and is always driven by these other concerns he has, namely in attacking Jews and victims of the Nazis, while protecting the reputation of Hitler as well as the Nazi regime in general. Even his “scholarship” on Dresden proved no better and was seen as another attempt to develop sympathy for the Nazis while attacking those who were their enemies.
Lipstadt has a policy of refusing to engage Holocaust deniers in debate. She believes that putting them on the same platform grants them and their wacko views legitimacy. This trial was forced on her and it is no surprise he lost.
Not only did he lose, but if I’m not mistaken, the loss forced him to declare bankruptcy. So in many respects, he certainly shot himself in the foot by seeking this additional publicity.
May Lipstadt sell many of her books – she’s received excellent reviews so far for this newest book about the trial.
Hey TM…I’m with you buddy. Even I’m going to purchase, I mean take out from the Library, her book (I shelled out cash for the other two books about this incident). And I wish her the best. I’m just wondering if this’ll backfire and provide Irving with second wind. Just raising questions, not statements.
BTW, I don’t agree that Deborah was the best person to write a book about the trial. I believe the best people have already written books about the trial i.e. Evans. But if it helps cover some of her costs, and educate others (though I’ve heard it’s long and tedious) who never heard of this fiasco, then let the cash registars ring.
C-span, fake ‘majority’ rally – whatever.
I just want to welcome back shtreimel who’s been less than frequent over the past few weeks and has now seemed to have found more time to
wastespend here like the rest of us.
Actually, I’ve been swamped with work. Just got a gig to compose music for an NFB doc film. So busy that I only visit Jewlicious. I haven’t even seen/posted on Jewschool for over 2 wks. I like it better here.
Because of my excellent looks, to be sure.
No TM because shtreimel knows two of the posters here, totally knows them, and totally has no idea!
AN – lemme give you a couple of hints moron. GrandMuffti used to have long hair below the shoulders and you both knew someone called LM. Ring a bell?
Ck, are you calling a guest “moron?”
once he realizes who we are, he will call himself a moron. Trust me, we have that kind of relationship.
“No TM because shtreimel knows two of the posters here, totally knows them, and totally has no idea!”
CK, what’s up with the Ashkenaz neurosis? I truly enjoy the vibe on your site.
“GrandMuffti used to have long hair below the shoulders and you both knew someone c”alled LM. Ring a bell?”
LM? Hair below the shoulders? Seriously dude, I’m lost. Maybe it’s all the second hand pot smoke I’ve been inhaling for the past 5 years in Vancouver. BTW, I’ll be in visiting Montreal in late April, we should grab a cup o’ java and catch up (or at least tell me where we met). Throw me a num, I’ll call…swear.
Ok, I’m going nuts over here. I’ve just spent 3 min staring at grandmuffti’s photo, like some sick perv into Jewish webloggers. I can’t place the face. Nothing. Nada. Zip.
C’mon, more hints…
CBB Montreal? Tzofim?
Slaves On Dope?
Hole in the Sheet?
Sigh, you’re killing me CK. I swear, if I don’t resolve this soon, I’m calling Simon.
LM – Wouldn’t happen to be a lovely lady from Vancouver who hung around Hillel (just saw her last week on Commercial DR. in Vancouver)
GM – If I remember correctly, he had long hair and played guitar I think. His name occurs very early on in Genesis. And I do recall his interest in Philosophy.
CK – This may sting, but I don’t know how I know you. However clearly this has to do with my stint at Hillel with Etzy Neuyer, etc.
Yes? Please say yes.
Yes. Though I must say I enjoyed making you sweat. I was friends with the muff. We made the first Hillel Web site and nethate and all that shite. Granted, you knew Muffti better and had uh… friends in common but dude, I at least remembered your friggin name. So you saw LM?? Wow. The Muff and I occassionally wonder whatever happenned to her. Should you see her again, send her this way and tell her we wish her well. Simon has my number. You always say you’ll call and you never do.
TM: What did I tell you? Mamash tembel! 😉
I’m sorry ck, I’m having trouble responding right now as I try to scratch out of my mind that visual of Muffti with long hair.
He was a typical rebellious metal head. He had hair way past his shoulders. We once did a web site for this bad ass fancy shmancy salon and part of the deal was that we got like $1000 in hair cuts. Muffti went once to get his ends trimmed and came back looking, I swear, like Jennifer Anniston. NOW if you wish to scratch out your eyes, go right ahead.