Ck suggested I post this in its own space so he can post some pic of a beautiful woman with Jewlicious breasts ( 😆 ) and get 17 times as many comments. Not that we’re competing or anything…
It follows this discussion.
Alex and TY, thanks for the kind words. Now try to post your plans for what Israel can do. Thanks.
Josh, we’ve been over some of your comments before and we disagree on things like population growth among Palestinians. Gaza is not the West Bank. Gush Katif is not Maaleh Adumim.
Your plan is to keep doing what we’re doing. That’s a road to disaster. Israel’s economy is in lousy condition. The poverty rate is way too high and a ton of kids are affected. Israeli society is torn because of the lack of common values regarding our presence among the Palestinians. A culture of intolerance and violence has entered civic society so that you have violence in schools. The IDF finds itself stretched and reservists find themselves pushed to unreasonable lengths.
And that’s just the beginning of the problem.
As per TM’s request.
Israel is a small island in a sea of hostile countries. Since it does not have economic, academic, cultural or diplomatic relations of any consequence with its surrounding countries, it must rely upon the US, Europe and other trading partners for these relationships. Except that our presence in Gaza and even the West Bank is having a serious and detrimental effect on those relationships with these countries.
For example, we are seeing a divestment movement hitting very large U.S. church groups and entering normal discourse and even trading partners in societies like Scandinavia. Academically, there is already a great deal of hostility toward Israeli scholars and their scholarship – sometimes outright bans – in Europe, and in the U.S. there is already a very strong anti-Israel presence on most campuses’ faculties. Check out MESA (Middle East Studies Association) if you want to see who runs ME education on U.S. campuses. Culturally Israel no longer has the same impact we had even as recently as the the 80s, when it was considered a just and brave country and ally to the U.S. – unless you consider seeing tanks inside civilian population centers in people’s living room tv sets some sort of cultural success (consider the Lebanon War a turning point for when we started seeing the downhill slope). Diplomatically, we carry little weight anywhere and far less weight than we would like in the U.S.
As this happens, our young are turning away from Judaism, as well as Israel, in part because of the sophisticated and relentless campaign against Israel and its supporters that we get from pro-Palestinians and Lefties. The poor 20 year olds have a tough choice to make, they could identify with a “monstrous” country, or remove themselves from the clan and get laid more often. This, in turn, is filtering upward to older generations so that you see far fewer people supporting Israel than in the past, or you see support that is lukewarm. People do not want to be identified with the Israel that we see today, and little gatherings of 20 or 30 Hillel students with some dancing Chabadniks waving Israeli flags on campus won’t change that.
This is just the beginning. In 20 years, unless something dramatic changes, we will see this progress into a true decline in American Jewry and certainly in its ability to support Israel. The rest of the population, that either does not care about the ME or has little interest in Israel, will certainly not be any more supportive than it is today, and on the basis of their exposure to pro-Palestinian sources, I would say far less supportive if not hostile.
Now I don’t mean to say that Israel’s presence in the territories is the sole cause for all of these issues, BUT IT IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Gaza gives us nothing. I’m sorry if that hurts people’s feelings, but it is more of a problem than a help to Israel. The West Bank is a different story, as we’ve discussed, but it still hurts us more than it helps.
What we need is for Israel to become a country that allows and enables the Palestinians to have their state so that their “story” is “resolved.” What we need is for our soldiers to get out of there so we don’t have morally questionable incidents. What we need is for Israel to retrench along lines that are defensible and with a large security barrier so that we keep most of the settlers with us (80% if you stick to the Taba talks), and begin to live our lives again.
Then, finally, internal social rifts within Israel will begin to heal and the government will be able to focus on internal development and the economy. The IDF will be able to be an army that fights against armies, and not a force that has to fight inside civilian neighborhoods. It will be able to lessen its obligations, costs and the use of reservists. It will stop corrupting young Israelis who have to fight and take responsibility for fighting in the midst of a civilian population.
The economy will also grow as countries shed their current inhibitions in dealing with us because right now we have tanks that enter Palestinian villages and these countries’ citizens don’t approve and don’t care about the complexity of the situation. Tanks in villages are a reminder of bad things.
Do you notice how I haven’t even brought up the Palestinians? You know why? It’s because we are shooting ourselves in the foot with our own foolish behavior. We don’t need the Palestinians to be our enemies, we are doing quite fine in hurting ourselves. The fact is that the world does have a consensus about the Green Line and that some territorial negotiations will take place giving Israel small parts of the West Bank, to conclude peace with the Palestinians. Unfortunately, as time passes with us in the territories, that consensus falters. Instead of taking what we have and hugging it close for all of its preciousness, we are playing double or nothing.
People like me have a plan. You may not like it, but it’s a plan. It’s sad, but pragmatic. It hurts some people, but helps the majority. It isn’t a perfect solution, but it makes a lot of sense and will provide a healthier answer than bullshit about how targeted killings will win this war for us. We are already chasing and killing terrorists. People like you, Josh, Ephraim, Alex and TY, are proving yourselves great at silly insults or plans that maintain the status quo indefinitely. There is no indefinitely. There is a limited time horizon and we are fucking around even with that. It’s not I who has to wake up, it is the lot of you. Israel is being destroyed not by the Palestinians, but by us. We need to stop this now and yes, Gaza is only the first step. Next will be most of the West Bank, except for about 3-7% of it. If we do that, we might yet save Israel. If we don’t, this long decline will continue until we end up losing everything. The Palestinians believe time is on their side, maybe you guys need to figure out why.