Scrumpjewlicious!Faithful Jewlicious readers and literate hipsters know of Kristina Grish, groupie of he-Jews who pens the Fresh Ink column featured in Zink magazine. Her most recent literary endeavour is a how-to-date-Jewish-men guide aptly titled “Boy Vey! The Shiksa’s Guide for Dating Jewish Men.” Muffti is sad to report that its publication has not resulted in a general increase in the aptitude with which Shikseh’s pursue Muffti. [Not that he’s complaining!]

In any case, Ha’aretz interviewed Grish recently and she was kind enough to share some insights. The reparté is not especially witty on account of rather boring, predicatable questions. (i.e. ‘How did you get the idea of writing the book?”, “Describe the pressure on a non-Jewish woman when she has to face a Jewish family.”) Nonetheless, there are a few choice moments. Check it out if you are interested, but Muffti will provide some excerpts:

Someone once said to me that the fact that I date Jewish men is apparently the reason why she’s having difficulty finding a Jewish husband. It was said as a joke, but I’m sure there’s a lot of baggage behind it. But we’re in an open market, and everyone does what he wants.

No doubt JM is rolling her eyes. Muffti found this one rather telling:

In order to prevent problems, I recommend to non-Jewish women that if they decide to go for a Jewish man, they’re best off with a Reform Jew. Jews from Orthodox and Conservative families are much more committed to the issue of religion, and therefore, the relationship between a Christian woman and a Jewish man is likely to be much more complicated. His family will have many more reservations. I don’t think it will work easily.

With regard to the stereotypical Woody Allenness of our people:

Look, I’m neurotic myself. Jewish men as a rule are also very neurotic. They have many anxieties, they ask themselves questions all the time. In principle, I like that, the trouble is that when I’m under pressure from work, family, or God knows what, and I’m involved with someone who’s also neurotic, that creates a lot of friction. If I were a calm and quiet person, the neuroses of Jewish guys wouldn’t bother me.

Why do Jew-obsessed shiksehs require this book? To avoid or at least anticipate experiences such as your Jew bawling his eyes out in the bedroom on erev Yom Kippur:

….Only at that moment did she [Grish] learn that as part of the fast day, Jews are not allowed to have sexual relations. It was impossible to stop his tears or his guilt feelings, and she had no choice but to leave.

C’mon, open your mind and imagine yourself a shikseh dating a Jew. Wouldn’t you rather be prepared for this kind of thig?

Grish is a hottie and has doubtlessly had no problem snaring reform Jewish men. (Grish has apparently dated some 15 Jews in 6 years, averaging 2.5 per annum). He hereby accepts in advance any evening-activity invitations Grish has to offer. [He also promises no post-sex crying]. No doubt Muffti is out of the running however: unlike Grish’s Jewish stereotype, Muffti is laid back, a touch emotionally reserved, not totally lacking in machismo and his back isn’t really all that hairy. [Don’t ask. Go read]. Oh well. To comfort himself, Muffti remembers back to his pre-atheist hebrew school days and a particular Old Testament chapter springs to mind: Bameedbar 25.

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  • From her website:
    Chapters such as “Why choose the chosen ones?”; “Summer camp is not a cult (And other honest mistakes); “The first schtup”; and “Talk yiddish to me”….

    That’s pretty damn funny and Grish is a hottie, but one has to wonder…how many first schtups has she been through exactly?

  • You know, I have a friend like that, a nice Catholic girl (with all that implies) with a powerful, unquenchable desire to taste frequently from the fruit of Abraham. In fact, she spent most of the day before Muffti and his compatriot Johnathon the Manwhore arrived to celebrate Mardi Gras in Jewlicious fashion whining, “I want to meet the JEEEEEEWWWWSSSS.” Then for some reason it didn’t happen, and Muffti and Manwhore Johnathon were left without their potential shiksa lovin’.

    I’m not sure why these Jew-lovin’ shiksas exist, but as I’m sure ck will want to point out, they seem to be attracted to a very American Ashkenazi East Coast hairy-backed stereotype of the Jewish boy. It’s like for them you’re not really screwing a boy, you’re screwing an entire idea. You’re not screwing your boyfriend, you’re screwing Alexander Portnoy.

    But hey, you know, I’m all for increasing the Jewish pride of members of the tribe, and the ability to make quivering little puddles of Yiddish-mispronouncing shiksas seems to do the trick. B’hatzlacha, Muffti! Next time you’re in New Orleans, I’ll be sure my friend meets you. 😉

  • Manwhore Jonathon! That was brilliant, Michael. As for your li’l friend, tell her Muffti will still be circumsized next time he passes through your lovely town. Muffti will leave the manwhore behind. If you want to know why Jew-lovin’ shikseh’s exist, read the damned book.

  • I read the piece in Haaretz but didn’t make the connection to here. Thought she was a yawner.

  • Best of luck to NCG. In general, this is a trend that by all means should be encouraged!

    JM’s right, after all. We need more marriages. Surely, all benefit here.

    Take a Catholic girl “with all that implies” (say what?), add a bit of guile and a Reform or non-observant Jew– you’re lookin’ at more little tykes in the pews on Sunday. Papa Ratzi will be thrilled!

  • Catholic school girl.

    In the words of Frank Zappa, as sung by Ike Willis, “There’s nothing like a Catholic girl at the CYO when she learns to blow.”

    Or, in the words of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, “Catholic school girls rule.”

  • What is interesting is the implicit negative verdict on their OWN men. THAT is the real point.

    Another interesting point is the Jew’s implicit victory over the enemy’s woman, and by extension, him. Don’t go there. You will lose.

    You have not known true pain until you beget children who are yours, but not like you, in a profound and permanent way.

    Every proper, decent Christian lady has the ABSOLUTE, inalienable right AND DUTY to have her children baptised, and to raise them as Christians, no matter what their bonehead of a father thinks about it. That is my Jewish soul talking. The mother is the determinant, iron-clad. Don’t think you can ever mess with that.

    She remarks Jewish men ask questions all the time; that reminds me that they should be married as an axiom, and then, of course, ask questions all the time, about proper stuff, like whether G-d is made of atoms.

    Money money money money money money money money money money money money money

    (I thought it was my charm. No?) No. Money, money, money, money, money,money.

    And no beatings.

  • Spare me the parade of beaten Jewish wives. I get a little rhetorical and that’s ok.

    Spare me the defense of the honor of Christian men. I respect them and meant no offense.

  • YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN about the Jewish marriage being different and more egalitarian. That doesn’t need discussing, just DOING.

  • Does no one appreciate the atheist’s attempt to bring some yiddishkeit (sp?) into a post about shiksehs?

  • Now, JM, as someone who has the standing to object to the shiksa/Jewish guy pairing– in no way is this some Jewish “victory” over the “enemy’s woman.”

    A gentile girl wants to date Jewish guys?

    Go for it, baby.

  • Wouldn’t hesitate to set up one of my gentile galpals with a Jewish guy. Let a hundred flowers bloom.

  • I once dated a girl that was of a brazilian catholic father and a jewish mother…best of both worlds, she was awesome. Although she didn’t have the uniform michael so badly desires.

  • Morrissey, you are being liberal. I respect all groups and think they have to work on their own issues and not indulge in the sweets of exile and exoticism which I consider to be essentially holidays and escapist. It’s tons of fun to be an American in Paris but you have to go home sometime and cope with your true story.

    I’m BT.

  • JM, this issue isn’t seen by non-Jews in the same way as Jews do, at least to judge by your comments. We just don’t believe that a sexual boundary exists out there between “the enemy” and our women, such that these predatory Jews (male or female) must be kept away from our kind at all costs…

  • This post brings up too many unwanted images for me…a non-Jewish woman who has dated more Jewish men than I have? The Exciting Mardi Gras Adventures of Muffti and the Manwhore? Muffti citing Scripture for his purpose?

    To this woman and other NJB-lovin’ NCGs, I say, “Step off, Sister Christian. Back away from the Jewish boys and no one gets hurt.”

  • Esthere, what we have here is a salutary extension of globalization in the realm of romance. A little competition never hurt anyone.

  • Thou art stung, Morrissey, thou protestest too much.

    What did your post # 5 mean?

    Fill the pews, sure. Just have a nice day with your own folks. No problem. Wish us luck as we try to do the same over here. YOU have not been stripped of YOUR religious life by the enlightenment. Galileo got out of jail a long time ago. The King James is near to your hand.

    Our Talmudic studies are reeling; that is what’s wrong with our marrying; wish us luck if you want.

    You don’t have to understand, Morrissey. You mean well I am sure. You are only, in all innocence, demonstrating how wide the gulf is.

  • Esther, that is just what I want to hear. Your blood has not turned to water YET. Very good.

  • Interesting– almost the entire Jewish male commentariate has fled for the hills. Where ARE you guys? What– some freakin’ Catholic guy has to stick up for your rights?

  • Their right to see Christian women? In their world, that is not a right. But they don’t want to be rude to you. That is why they are quiet.

    Didn’t you believe what I said about the pain??

  • We would, Tom Morrissey, but we are too busy fighting off hot shiksehs. And you are doing such a fine job against such an impenetrable opponent.

    JM, did your eyes roll like Muffti predicted?

  • Morrissey, you missed his verb. He said, fighting off. You have no dog in this fight, Morrissey! I am sure your daughters will be just fine!! What is the problem?

  • Jsirpicco Here! Anyone getting a sense of deju vu? Is that Deja Jew? Listen:

    Here’s the deal with Shiksas: THEY ARE A BLOCK OF WOOD. A hunk of flesh, sometimes with good skills in the sack, sometimes not, who don’t know a GOOD ORGASM WHEN THEY HAVE ONE>

    omg WHEH A Jewish girl finally GETS OVER HERSELF (well, pun intended, okay) and finally does GET OVER – AND WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT IF YOU TREAT THEM RIGHT, THEY ARE LIKE, OPEN TO IT ALL, DUDES, YEAH BABY>…they come like there’s no tomorrow..

    ..Jewish chocks are LAYERED INSIDE, DUDES… there’s 5000 years of stuff erupting out of them when they finish and it’s the biggest turn on in the world -IF THEY’D ONLY SHUT THE FUCK UP ONCE IN A WHILE!

    It’s just that when they DON’T have their act together, then they are THE BIGGEST PAINS IN THE ASSES you’ve ever seen,and how could a got take it????

    So jewish guys, too, after a while just say, okay, I’ll take the block of wood just to get some freaking peace of mind!

    But, unfotunately, the peace of mind doesn’t last with a shiksa – 3 months tops and then you’re left wondering God isn’t there a NORMAL JEWISH CHICK OUT THERE???? THIN, TOO, IF YOU can swing it, please????

  • People are the size they ought to be. It’s the teeth that count. And the eyes.

  • errr, JM, the implication of the verb (that ALL Muffti was doing was fighting off) was unintended. Thanks for getting my back Morrissey. And never lose the romance.

  • Hey Elon, I have no interest in scoring Catholic girls, nor am I attracted to schoolgirl uniforms (what am I, a sexually maladjusted Japanese businessman?). But I was trying to illustrate for our friend Mr. Morrissey what was meant by “and all that implies”. You know. Gotta be descriptive. And of course popular music is the best medium for descriptions.

    Morrissey, we’re not backing you up because we fear Jewish women. They are powerful overlords and dissent is not tolerated.

  • jsirpicco’s right. By reaching out to others, learning about them, dating them, sleeping with, and even marrying them, we gain greater insight into our own communities.

    Beutifully expressed, my friend. Shalom. Or, as we gentiles say– have a nice day.

  • just tellin it like it is, morissey! Catholic chicks cut themselves off at the last minute! they’re about to finish and then it’s like some picture of a dried up old nun who hasn’t had any in 50 years comes into their minds and bye bye pleasure… unless their on xtc or quailudes or whatever…

    but moire to the point…. morissey… don’t you get all weirded out by jewish chicks when they start yammering on and giving orders???

    how doo ‘you people’ deal with that, besides drinking?

  • That’s it JSerpico, you have gotten on my very last nerve with your constant insistance that all women should be thin. You couldn’t handle a real women with curves because it would trigger your latent homosexuality. Do you have a 9 inch cock? Because personally I’d like to insist that all men have at least that, if they could swing it.

  • chutzpah – give it a rest, okay….every jewis chick i’ve gone out with has been curvey… and i deal just fine thank you—it’s just why can’t a guy dream????

    you think i’m not saying what almost every jewish guy is thinking? (I said almost!!!)

    Back me up, dudes!!! just a few pounds is all I’m saying… we know you’re not going to be ASIAN, for GOD’S SAKE!!!

    And why didnt you at least THANK jsirp for telling it like it is re: jewish girl’s beautiful,earthshaterring orgasms???? that’s a COMPLIMENT!!!

    and no i’m not a latent homosexual and no i don’t have the dimensions you so crave I’m just fine thank you very much!!!

  • jsirpicco, I actually like Jewish chicks. And actually, the ones I’ve been with haven’t ordered me around.

  • morissey-if they didn’t start ordering you around then it was still early on and they were entranced by your exotic, aryan otherness and relieved not to have to deal with some self-centered, neurotic jewish guy and his mother, for GOD’S SAKE!

    it doesn’t last. default position is well, they are layered and so have many urgent “requests” like signinf useless petitions on workers comp for women in nicuragua!

  • No doubt the book is a sequel to the best-seller, “The Nazi’s Guide to Gassing Jews”.

  • jsirpicco: How can anyone take you seriously? I know you’ll deny it, but from the content of your posts it seems pretty clear to me that you don’t even like women, jewish or not.

  • Girls dream too. If your dimensions are not perfect, I suggest you stop criticizing those of others.

  • Tiff- Jsirp loves women! Puhleeze. Chuzpah…so much anger…so much anger…that’s all I get from you.

    You’re blaming me for saying what EVERY JEWISH GUY IN THE WORLD IS THINKING? That they want a girl that’s basically in shape, okay, dare I say it, thin?????
    Guys, will YOU PLEASE BACK ME UP HERE?????!!!

    Or, do you really think Jewish guys are sitting around going, yeah, I really love HER…the HER of HER and (I’m talking pre-marriage, okay…afterwards we give you some slack, but please tell me what I’ve said that is women hating, suggesting that on whole, we’re mostly attracted to girls who are mostly in shape?????)

    And okay, girlie girl, so go get a guy with a 9 inch cock. Have fun. I’m not hung up on it. I know what I am, I’m fine. I’m married. I got what I got and that’s it…what, I should walk around saying, yeah, sure, witch…jsirp he’s bigger than the biggest black dude around. Yeah, baby!

    I ain’t goin there…

    But you see – and are you listening, Morissey…Chuzpah, and Tiff…YOU GIRLS ARE PROVING MY POINT!!! Okay forget the weight thing for a minute…Look at your responses? Look at the anger, the tension, the NEED TO SHUT JSIRP UP AT ALL COSTS!!!!

    Don’t you get how that’s JEWISH CHICK TALK?????
    See how all the shiksas out there are just like, yeah, okay, whatever. He’s funny. He’ll calm down in a minute, and where IS my Martha Stewart magazine?????

  • For the record, I’ve never ordered a boyfriend around. But it seems I have confused people by using my brain again. That’s the last time I try that. Back to the kitchen for me, where I will do what I do best: make reservations.

    (Note to self: look into having brain removed…then will not overthink things and will also be able to decrease declared body weight by three pounds.)

  • jsirpicco- Just deal with it! You don’t dig the ladies…not that there is anything wrong with that.

  • Tiff – uhm…trust me. I LOVE WOMEN!!! I’m the guy at the party, where the guys are talking sports cars and I dunno, shooting Jews (if it’s with yogs like Morriessey :))…so when those guys are doin that, I’m the one on the other side, talking to some chick!

    What, now I have to convince people that I like women? Okay. fine. Guys, WILL YOU PLEASE BACK ME UP, HERE?????

    I dig women. I just don’t dig “issues,” get it?

    Anyway, I’m gonna start a new blog pretty soon: Ask Jsirpicco: Real Questions. Real Answers. So Just Deal!

  • Now, now settle down. You don’t need to convince me, like I’m not your mom or anything. I don’t judge.

  • Big Questions JSirp: How angry would your wife be if she read any of your shit and if she’s really your soulmate and not just your cover for your homosexuality, then why don’t you give her your blog address and this one and let her put her two cents in?

  • Chuzpah – my wife already found out my secret identity. She basically laughed and gets that I’m basically kidding around…yeah…how ’bout that…a good woman who gets me and likes me…gee…and in honor of full disclosure, she did say…”well, just keep your mind out of the gutter, please…” but she lives with me day in day out…and she’s great…so…what’s yer point, exactly?

    Yes, she checks up on my antics and basically figures, well. okay…and I guess if it gets to be too much, she’ll mention something as well…

    See…I LIKE MY WIFE!!! I’m good to her, and she back to me…sorry about the rest of you all…

    and trust me, please Chuzpah…one thing Jsirp has NOT been accused of is being a homosexual…closet or otherwise but I guess, when all wit and banter fails, screaming FAG!!! is at least cathartic….

    One would suggest that Thou Get Thee a Life, girl…


  • Jewish women seem so solid, but they really are incorporeal, in the sense that they are creatures of the mind. They can braid the wind by movoing their hands. Their hands are unusually beautiful.

    When Jewish men are incorporeal too, from studying the parsha, and getting up early for Shachris, and laying Tfillin, they understand this in the women and all is well.

    It is when the men are not incorporeal enough themselves that they see the women as too heavy. It is their spirits which are heavy, the poor things.


  • The marble statue is not a Jewish invention.

    I don’t want to go any further with that. I remember last time.

  • A petition for worker’s comp for women in nicaragua is “useless” but one for a prayer circle at Amuka is vital?!! You wouldn’t be saying that if you were a woman in nicaragua who lost an arm in a industrial accident or if you truly cared about women’s “issues”.

  • (We can assume competence on the part of the other peoples. They can handle their stuff. We have to handle our stuff. Play your position.)

  • chutzpah – you’re unhinged today — there is NO FREAKING PETITION ABOUT NICARAGUA!!!! It was an exmple, dummmy! But yes, amuka is an impotant chesed, “imho”- 🙂

    like, what GIVES WITH YOU, TODAY?????

    (please, don’t answer! I was being rhetorical!!!!)

    jm -yeah, too heavy, right…


    Okay, okay, I’m sorry for the caps lock. But between Jsirpicco writing like he has his morning eggs with extra Dexedrine, and Jewish Mother spouting off sheer borderline schizophrenic word salad(her sayins are made of words, yet they are utterly incomprehensible) like “they can braid the wind by moving their hands. Their hands are unusually beautiful,” and Chutzpah babbling about 9 inch cocks, I want to go look up Ms. Grish and afterwards convert to Islam. Seriously.

    Tom! Are gentiles like this? Is this behavior normal for other people?

  • Hahaha. I was wondering if I was only one who saw the braiding wind with their hands part and was confused.

  • I didn’t realize how low people can become when they become distant from Judaism.

    Its good for me to come and read some of these discussions to understand what is really going on out there.

  • Oh. My. G*d.
    My intent when putting up the Jewish Men are Hot I post was to, you know, let people (Jewish women) know that Jewish men are not just a good idea, but also desireable and even sexy.

    These comments however … I gotta sometimes wonder where on earth you people come from …

  • Joe, What we Jews have is Torah to learn, all this other stuff is like taking a break. I prefer to learn on my own. I get books real cheap on Ebay, and read them on my rides to and from work, and sometimes at home. But one problem I have is that some things I read I can’t relate to. For example, I am reading yesterday about the Mishna which describes punishing people, and something about pouring hot lead down their throat, OK, and if the person dies from it, OK, the one who meted out the punishment did not succeed, iow, he was supposed to do this in such a way that the criminal survives this, and it goes on about where exactly in the bowels is this hot lead supposed to hang out. Sorry, I have problems w/ that sort of stuff.
    The problem is that for many the word out of the madraesses like Aish, aish being the worst of the genre, is that you should accept it all, become a robot. Of course, question all you want, but at the end of the day, aish trains you to accept it all. I refer to aish in Israel, not the money making scandals they run in America. So many people fall for this for the simple reason that they don’t have anything else to cling to in their despair or lonliness, or boredom. Or they want to be told what to do, for various reasons. Well obviously, if this is all that people get about Judaism, of course they will likely drop it like a hot potatoe, so they will get into other things. Now this is not to say that there is alot of good learning to do. but I can understand where someone will get so turned off by the many examples we have discussed here where Judaism, frumkeit I should say, becomes something too strange to really embrace, as you would want.

    The problem in N.America and most of the western world is that the only role model there is, basically, is to become the doctor or lawyer. Years ago, it was different, there was a whole crime element for example, colorful people w/ various workmenlike ideologies and professions, but this is largely over, w/ some few exceptions, like myself for instance. But the path for the young Jew is many degees, preferably law and med.
    In Israel it is somewhat different, to an extent, altho they do use (exploit?) Arab labor, and now Thai and African and Romanians.

  • jsirpico:

    There is no gender unity because you’re, you know, an asshole.

    And while I don’t like obese women, I do not like thin women at all, if by thin you mean the “super model” look. They all look malnourished. I don’t know about you, but I have no desire to sleep with a human version of a praying mantis.

    They would be beautiful and desirable if they put on a few pounds and lost all of the angles, but I look at them and think, “Man, you could impale yourself on those hipbones”.

    Tom, there is no way to prevent people from wanting to tast forbidden fruit. It gives things a certain frisson which people mistake for love. It also, unfortunately, leads Jews away from Judaism. Of course, if the NCG converts properly and then marries the NJB, no harm, no foul.

  • CK!!!!! Ephraim’s being mean to me! Plus he’s a wuss cuz he knows DAMN WELL that I never said supermodel thin!!!

    So Ephraim, I may or MAY NOT be an asshole – but YOU ARE MOST DEFINITELY afraid of Jewish women -lije your father was afraid of your mother and so on!

    meanwhile, ck -apparently the chicks on this blog have made it clear that they don’tlike no Jewish guys – too much baggage, right Estee baby…and Chutzpahleh!

    On jewish mother, the poetess – how’s that lithium prescription kicking in, hmm???- is the ONLY one that gets it…

    Oh well. I knew that when I ACCEPTED THE MANTLE of being, you know, JSIRPICCO!!!!, it would not be a popularity contest.

    The truth is more important than my feelings. I just have to keep saying that.

    Jsirpicco. Endless Dedication to Emes!

  • It’s all media induced anyway. That’s why I like being a bookworm, it’s awesome. Check this out Serps, this woman is on my bus and reading the exact same book as I am. So I mention this. Serps she has an unusual ass, in terms of the legnth / proportion to her body which is basically tight, but the back there is very round and a large large size. She has like this huge rock on her ring and all, not saying it’s real but you know.
    Suppose she is hot but not in your mind. I can get you a picture and show you how wrong you are just ask.

  • fat bottom girls you make this rocking world go round!!!

    hotness is not ONLY about weight, duh! you guys don’t get jsirps COMPLEXITY!

  • “I have no desire to sleep with a human version of a praying mantis.”

    Glad to hear this, mostly because after mating, the female mantis often “devours her male mate, sometimes starting by biting off his head.” For more mantis mania, see here.

    And if I’m understanding Jsirpicco correctly (which is never for certain), he’d have you believe that Jewish women bite the heads off their men before anyone even gets started.

  • And just to clarify things, I do like Jewish men, even though they repeatedly disappoint me, and even though I haven’t found the right one yet, and even though my insistence on marrying a Jewish man is probably to an extent what’s keeping me single. That and the whole “brain-using” thing. (Which I’m working on.)

    And that’s the Emes.

  • I have no monopoly on Emes, or Emet or truth, but I do know one thing. Jsirpicco cracks me up.

  • So, jsirpico, does your theory mean that, you, too, like all Jewish men, are afraid of Jewish women? I really think you’re projecting here. I’m not, but not only am I sure you will not believe me, I couldn’t care less if you do.

    Right, esther, I had forgotten about that part of the praying mantis mating ritual. But I was referring to the longness and skinniness of the models. Thanks but no thanks. And, no, jsirpico, I do NOT know that you didn’t mean super-model thin. Define your terms if you don’t want to be misunderstood.

    Zaftig is good. Fat is not. Skinny is not. Thin can be good depending on the woman. But in general more flesh is better than less.

  • Wow, how did this discussion (hilarious though it was) devolve into discussion of weight.

    Most people do not perceive beauty in people who are overweight, although some do. Big deal, that has nothing to do with this topic, especially because there are many Jewish women who are not overweight and some who are who are still quite Jewlicious.

    Also, on that note, the word shiksa is derogatory and should be replaced with the perfectly acceptable “Non-Jewish babe.”

    The topic is Jewish men falling in love with non-Jewish women. The fear JM is expressing, and I believe many of us agree with instinctively, is that in a world with 6,500,000- 9,000,000 Jewish men and 3,000,000,000 non-Jewish women, if you get enough Jewish men marrying non-Jewish women, you ain’t got too many Jews left in the world within two generations.

    Obviously, if the non-Jewish babe takes on Judaism as a religion, and the couple raises Jewish children, this is less of a concern (although we then get into the whole issue of what constitutes an acceptable conversion). However, in a world where so many Jews are secular, it becomes much more difficult not only to ask the prospective bride to convert to Judaism, but even to find a good reason why she should. After all, if all faiths are equal and God doesn’t exist, what difference does it make?

    Point being that when those Southern Baptists and Christians-pretending-to-be-Jews for Jesus put aside money to convert us, they should really be seeking those wily, beautiful, intelligent non-Jewish babes (especially Harvard and Yale grads, please) and paying them well to hunt for Jewish men. Within two generations, we’d be down to a couple of million Jews outside of Israel.

    So Tom, while it’s fair to say that romance is wonderful, on this subject I have to say it’s better if it doesn’t culminate in marriage too often or you won’t have too many Jews left to entertain you.

    Plus Muffti’s mom is gonna be mighty disappointed in him…

  • Jewish men are at their hottest when they let you take their creditcard for a spree at Bloomingdales, and THAT is the only reason the Evangelicals DON’T have to pay their “beautiful, intelligent babes” to hunt for Jewish men…the Jewish men are already paying them!

    I happen to love Jewish men myself, but since I have already procreated, I am allowing myself the luxury of playing with who ever happens to be available to me, and Jewish men are just not plentiful. And for starters, I never bite their head off…just tease, lick & suck.

  • Esther, if you met someone not Jewish, and felt a love connection, why would you not pursue?

  • so, instead of funding Israel and promoting aliyah as a way to hasten the coming of the Moshiach, Christian groups should be promoting intermarriage in the the diaspora. I wonder how that would play out in TV ads and church sermons.

  • Jobber, you ask an excellent question and believe me, it’s one I ask myself regularly. As I get older, I wonder–as most of my friends do, as well–if we will be forced to choose interfaith dating or facing an endless future alone.

    The truth was, I only felt that once, and since the LCIQ (love connection in question) had a long-term girlfriend when we met (who he eventually married on Rosh Hashanah), I knew it would never happen for other reasons. It’s worth noting that he’s one of my closest friends, and I hope always will be. But he routinely encourages me to “date out,” and doesn’t understand why I limit myself to not just Jews, but Jews of a certain level of interest and commitment. (Bloomingdales’ sprees not important.)

    I don’t live in Crown Heights or Meah Shearim, and I don’t always dress like a “bat yisroel” should. But the truth is that Judaism is an intrinsic part of every day I live, and I can’t imagine sharing my future with someone who wouldn’t understand that, or even with someone who wouldn’t understand the Hebrew I throw into conversations…

    And Chutzpah? You bad, girlfriend.

  • esther wrote: I don’t live in Crown Heights or Meah Shearim, and I don’t always dress like a “bat yisroel” should.

    You slut! And you called Chutzpah bad? Sheesh. Cover your elbows girl!

  • Obviously, these non-Jewish women wanting Jewish men are assuming we’ve all got thousands of shekels in the bank.

    Broke Jews like me don’t get that kind of response. Not that I’m complaining…I’m not looking for “play”…I’m looking for a future wife. And while many Jews may not have a problem marrying someone who isn’t Jewish, my personal stance on this issue is pretty much the same as esther’s post above. I want someone who cares as much about Judaism as I do.

    And as far as some of you guys petty demands of physical beauty, you’ve been tainted by Greek misconceptions of “ideal human form”.

  • Shmuel – if you didn’t want physical beauty…oh, I’m sorry, CHEMISTRY – THEN you would be married by now…also see under: jsirpicco’s previous rants, I mean wisdom, about Jewish guys GETTING JOBS, DUH! Get a real paying job (or at least something you love and so passion will make up for $40,000 lack of income….) and then you HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER (and here come the comments…no, not the only thing that’s important, but puhleeze…

    unless you’re in yeshiva right now, in full time learning…why should a Jewish chick take you based on your TERRIFIC, INSPIRING connection to Hashem, as you bring in $34,000 a year?????

    You have to at least have something to placate the nervous soul – like yeah, a job, and then they can see the “deeper” part of you, as in:

    Wow, he’s even BETTER THAN I THOUGHT…responsible, deep, caring, cute, etc. He works hard, learns hard…is a good son to his parents, treats me nicely, thinks I’m smart, funny, etc…get it????? That’s how girls will talk..

    But…if it’s I’m this great JEWISH INSPIRATION TO EVERYONE…but I just can’t quite seem to get my act together professionally….then they say…Well, he’s cute, I enjoy talking to him, but he’s turning out to be kind of immature….hmmmm….

    And after 25 or so…the cute inspiring thing gets kind of old…if you don’t believe: Check out LA, where 50 is “the new 25.” It’s gross, wrong, and even the Rambam says: Get a job first, guys….

    See, Esther? I’m an equal opportunity “asshole.” So quit giving me crap, okay? And Chuzpah…well, nice that you’re putting it out there….


  • My slutty elbows and I are enjoying that Moby’s now the poster boy for this post.

    Jsirp, I know you crack CK up, and not to dare correct you, but I never called you that. I don’t ever use that word here on Jewlicious.

  • THAT’S Mobius? Somehow Muffti though he’d be taller.

    And what did you say about Muffti’s moma, TM?

  • when I was in Tel Aviv one time I actually saw mob in a club. He had this big pot belly that jiggled a bit and it stretched the shirt he was wearing — made all the fabric around the buttons stretch like crazy.

    aaanyway he was pretty liquored up and was all over this horrendous looking girl-type with one eye and about four teeth. to be clear there is an israeli saying: great body, face like a bomb dropped it. that was this girl. this is a girl no one would touch but the original homo, mobius, was about two amaretto sours away from marriage.

    so he is goin on and on about all this political junk and how he is mister orthodox anarchist — “YES! THE ORTHODOX ANARCHIST HAVE YOU HEARD OF ME??” — and the mutant girl just tosses her glass down, is all “EXC– USE ME!” and walks away.

    all I am sayin is this — no matter how angry mobius makes you keep in mind he’s just a fat kid who can’t dance or talk to women. gotta stay grounded yo peace out

  • Esther, Obviously you would need someone open enough that encourages you to do whatever you need to. Not sure that someone like that can’t open an Artscroll book in Englishm and learn. Someone open to the idea of converting say, or even if not actual converting, someone who would enjoy some learning and whatever.
    I only think it would be a shame G-d forbid, you wouldnt know the joys of motherhood over something so beneign. I cannot begin to tell you how much joy there is after a long hard work day at my insane and humilating job to be greeted by 3 beautiful children w/ smiles and to play ball w/ them or go to the pool. Why on earth should you deprive from this if the fellow is there?
    That we have a problem in the singles population at that point of men age 35-45 or so that has been discussed.
    I do not advocate this position for younger Jews but those women who are getting closer to the bio clock problem.

  • Wow. I head off-line in one of my periodic attempts to get a life– and all hell breaks loose. (Apologies for the Christian imagery. Hell’s a helluva metaphor.)

    jsirpicco, sorry to have been AWOL. For what it’s worth, I’m with you on heavy chicks. (Though Jewish women tend to be zaftig, no? Just as Japanese women tend to be thin.) And I don’t think you’re… oh, G-d…. gay.

    However– if there’s something you’d like to, you know… share with us– I’d hope Esther, JM, Chutzpah et al. will let bygones be bygones and provide a supportive, understanding, accepting environment.

    You ARE somebody. You ARE entitled to be happy. Yes, you, jsirpicco. Sure, it’s scary. How in the world do you tell your family?

    But we’re here for you, pal, OK?

    Middle, very interesting comment. No doubt you’re right– intermarriage is far more likely to reduce the number of Jews than the paltry efforts of the much-discussed, vastly overblown Jews-for-Jesus types and their ilk.

    I suspect, though, that the JM approach– “the enemy” may resent Jewish thievery of “their” women– exhorting folks not to date outside their faith because there’s a rule that says they can’t– a malum prohibitum approach– that won’t cut it. Not in a secular culture like America’s, in which– Heaven forfend!– we don’t hate you! We may even actually like and accept you. And date and fall in love with you from time to time. And bring you home to Mom and Dad, who’ll think (zounds!) you’re perfectly fine.

    So, there’d better be a Plan B. As you suggest, there’s plenty that’s affirmative and desirable about Judaism– obviously– and that’s where the assimilation battle will be won or lost.

    And if it’s lost– do you really think starry-eyed, lovestruck gentiles and their besotted Jewish spouses will be to blame?

    Catholicism, mutatis mutandis. Evangelical Christianity, too. It’s not specific to Jews. Welcome to the contemporary West, where you’d better have something positive to offer people. And where attempts at coercion will engender rebellion or indifference. (Life was so much simpler when we hated each other, eh?)

    And, man, this whole fear-driven notion that Jews are about to disappear– seems like there’s a jeremiad a week on that issue here. Call me crazy or unqualified (we’ll stipulate to both)– at least I’m outside the proverbial box– but it’s just overrated as an issue. And what constitutes an acceptable number? 6.3 million Jews? 4.7 million? 4.9? Is 4.9 better than 4.7? In what sense? 4.1 million committed Jews, and 2.8 secular, faithless ones? The reverse? What’s “success” in this context?

    There’s a helluva lot more of us than of you, sure– but I couldn’t give a tinker’s damn how many Catholics there are. The more the merrier, but who cares?

    Isn’t there something endlessly, depressingly enervating about the way this issue is framed and discussed? You guys drive yourselves crazy over this, and from a distance, it seems sad and unnecessary.

  • Here’s what you’ve been waiting for- MY VERY OWN UNPOPULAR OPINION (I wrote that in caps as an homage to jsirpicco, to show I really like Jewish guys).

    I jumped the fence and stole one of their guys. So there. And he’s made one damn fine Jew. So there. Saying goes: Catholics make the best Jews; show ’em the rules and… they’re off! It’s true! and boy, am I in trouble. Be careful before you follow my example, Esther. You’ll be “Bat Yisroel” chic before you can say “three-quarter length sleeves”.

    I’ve gotta say that this is the funniest thread I’ve read in a while. And I just crack up at the thought of busloads of shiksas pulling up outside yeshivas, looking for fun boys. Hahahahaha- just cracked up again. See?

  • judi, best of luck. Hopefully, you got yourself and Italian Catholic. We “make the best Jews,” eh? Not surprised. At all.

    Ya win a few, ya lost a few. Lost one to judi, but just picked up 3,024 in rural Zambia this morning….

  • judi– you’re from the Elm City, right? If either you or your husband are Yalies– then truly, all is forgiven. Bow wow wow.

  • Judi -All you mean when you say you got a good one is that YOU CAN BOSS HIM AROUND AND HE JUST LOOKS AT YOU!!!! Unless he’s Italian, and then, well, you boss him around and he blows your head off and then sits down to Spaghetti and beer….

    Or if he’s just a regular protestant, You boss him around and he wonders…now where Did I put the issue of popular mechanics this morning? Oh, sorry dear…sure…you want me to call your Mother, grandmother, sister, and aunt and wish them all a collective happy August 1st, cuz it means something to your family going back 17 generations to somewhere in Poland where my ancestors actually massacred yours? Sure. No problem!

  • Tom- Grrrrr… Actually, I went to Brandeis, rumored to be chock-full of Jewish guys. What would I know? My head was stuck in my books the whole time (that’s my story & I’m stickin’ with it). But that’s okay, many of my best friends are Yalies. We can still be friends, I think.

    jsirpicco- yeah, yeah very funny… He & I have a deal- three days a week I boss him around, three days a week he bosses me around, and on Shabbos we both get the day off.

    Sorry, neither your first nor your second scenario fits at all. But if you keep trying, I’ll let you know when you’re getting warm.

  • Morrissey, I don’t think anybody should poach what is YOURS either.

  • I wonder how many elderly mothers are holding their non-married grown children back?

    There is a whole unit at the end of Mommy-School called “Letting Go” and it IS hard but you have to. Am I the only person here with married children?

  • judi, my most recent ex went to Brandeis. (Ouch.) Great school (even if Bob Reich just blew it off). Go to the Rose Museum fairly regularly– excellent collection, terrific curating over there.

  • Tom, it really must look crazy from the outside, because inside, it’s a veritable funhouse.

    There’s a reason you don’t care about how many Catholics there are in the world- you don’t have to. Here are some examples of past world powers where Jews felt comfortable assimilating:

    Germany, 1920’s.
    Spain, 15th Century.
    Egypt, 3000-odd years ago.

    That’s a hell of a long history to examine, but I thought about it, and I can’t think of any others where Jews weren’t constantly persecuted. And look how well those 3 worked out.

    But that’s the thing- Jews don’t have the luxury of looking at history in 40-year increments. We have thousands of years to bear, because every time we forget, someone tries to remind us. So just because Christians like us today- and even here, I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to the silent majority, because there are some pretty vocal Christian leaders who still don’t like us very much- doesn’t mean we can stop worrying about Jewish survival.

    In other words, when we read articles like this, it’s exactly the hot Christian babes we’re worried about. The ancient- and some posit antiquated, even outdated- traditions are not what kill Judaism. It’s liberty, hedonism, and free love. Because if you’re a teenager, and you have a choice between a Friday night dinner at home with the fam, and a football game with friends and maybe a bong afterward, which are you going to choose?

    Which is not to say, Jobber, that because Judaism is too “strange,” it should be twisted almost to the breaking point so it doesn’t bother the more liberal among us. Judaism is beautiful -not too thin, not too fat, mindbogglingly complex, and sometimes a pain in the ass- the way it is.

  • Of course, charles, one could counter that the Jewish people survived the experiences you cite.

    I understand (I think) the fear that history could take another, tragic turn. However, I miss the analogy between intermarriage in a benign, pluralist culture and, say, offical persecution. Aren’t the challenges completely different?

    If “liberty, hedonism, and free love” are the problem, the solution has to be found within one’s faith community. This isn’t as simple a matter as taking up arms against an external opponent. As I said, it’s easier if the other guy hates you. External hostility ironically serves to underline one’s own identity, right? But that’s not the distinctive challenge posed here in the West.

    Jews and Catholics and anyone else of faith are in the same boat. If the Church, for example, has nothing to offer– if it can’t command voluntary assent– kids will drift off into faithless secularism. But don’t blame the media or the drug cartel or Internet porn for it. (Plenty of out-to-lunch, ultra-conservative Catholic bishops do just that.)

    No point fretting about us, or our women. (For better or worse, gentiles are here to stay!) The means of “survival” must exclusively come from within.

  • Charles, it is beautiful, only when all cylinders are working. Otherwise, for me that is, I would rather have less of a communal contact w/ it. Because so much of it is in a social setting. I am talking about Balai Batim, not sitting and learning in Yeshiva.

    One thing I noticed is that in marriages, the women who are married seem to have a lower sex drive or desire than single or divorced women. Why is that, bec.
    1. They can get tired or turned off easier by the same man, invariably one can say something gross or moronic.
    2. They know they will ‘get some’ eventually so they don’t feel the urgency.

    Your thoughts?

  • Morrissey, if I understand correctly, you are referring to the free marketplace of ideas, and saying that Judaism has to survive on its on its merits and on its attraction to people.

    Is that what you meant?

    Is it OK, in your view, for people to try to convert people to another religion, (based on that)?

    Me, I am for leaving everybody alone, but that is not a universal view.

    What do you say? I don’t mean about attempts to convert Catholics. I mean, about attempts to convert Jews to Christianity.

    This thread is titled one thing, but its header brought in intermarriage which is why I do not think I am OT.

    (Judi did not intermarry. She married someone who, in the Orthodox view, had always been Jewish without knowing it.)

  • teliavivo — you talk more shit than a sewage worker. in fact, anyone who knows me knows you’re talking shit. but i tell you what — i dare you to step up and talk that shit to my face.

    potbellied niggaz represent!

  • Tom, I agree with you- it’s not the hot Christian ladies’ fault that they’re hot, or Christian. It’s the fault of the Jewish community that doesn’t impress upon the next generation the necessity of continuity, which can only happen if there is a Jewish mother- Jewish women obviously could then go out and marry Mormons, Catholics, and Muslims who won’t convert, but creating a vibrant Jewish atmosphere, while at the same time maintaining the moral highground when their kids come home with a non-Jewish serious boy/girlfriend.

    But for Jews, persecution and assimilation are two parts of the same problem- survival. And yes, while we did survive those cataclysms, what about the next one?

    But it is up to the Jewish community to paint a pretty Jewish picture for the following generations, and I’m sorry for implying it was non-Jews’ fault.

    Jobber- I really have no idea how to respond to your question. Maybe you have more experience in this than I, with my one wife, but as far as I can tell, no one outside a relationship can truly have any idea what goes on within the relationship. And, again, maybe this is speaking from inexperience, but I think it’s a pretty obnoxious blanket statement to make about women. I will try to offer a couple of responses, if not answers:

    1) Couldn’t one say that men, who are much more attached to visual stimulation than women, more likely to become bored, and indifferent to their wives?

    2) I’ve found that single women, much more so than single men, can “get it” whenever they want, not despite but because of their single status.

    3) As for married women, I only know one intimately to speak on her behalf, and I will only say that I am a very happy man.

    4) Possibly married men presume things come easier after marriage, and start whining when it turns out sex isn’t as on-demand, as, say, cable.

  • Yes but a cursory view shows much more sexuality amongsts the divorced women, that is what is so surprising to me. Perhaps you missed the earlier thread regarding the Jewish tradional time off period of 1-2 weeks each month, that seems to me a way of limiting intimacy and closeness between the Orthodox followers. That is where I am coming from mostly.

  • Don’t use me as an example, I haven’t gotten any since March.

  • Jobber, I just saw your comment 62 above.
    I don’t know what you are saying in all honesty.
    Just to respond to your not liking hot lead – we do not subscribe to those who are against the death penalty. People can and should be punished for what they do unlike the current liberal attitude.

    wrong a shiksa is a shiksa.

    shmuel and esther,
    come on there are many guys and girls out there. Why don’t the two of you get a cup of tea?
    Jsirpicco got a point.
    I believe that in this generation singles have to look at themselves and root out all the nonsense that over the years they think they are looking for. Alot of it is psycological – me included.

    Jobber again,
    “2. They know they will ‘get some’ eventually so they don’t feel the urgency.”
    -thats the reason. singles get married and your mind might clear up.

    What are you talking about? Judi intermarried plain and simple.

    The fact is that your’e religion is idol worship and we are uninterested in marrying into the worship of a man-God.

    Thank you Charles- well said.

  • Jobber, you mean sex, right? Not sexuality?

    As a (reluctant) adherent to family purity laws, I can tell you that it’s frustrating for both spouses to be without intimacy for such a long time. But the inconvenience is more than outweighed by the prolonged novelty, and the anticipation brought on by a simple visit to a nasty, cold wading pool. And the system promotes intimacy that must rise above the merely physical.

    Also, I don’t know what you’re viewing cursorily to support your position, so I can’t speak to it.

  • Muffti just wants to call the religious, knowledgeable peeps here hypocrits. When he uses a reference from the bible to attack the Os, they respond with a million, infinitely complex and subtle reasons to think that Muffti has completely totally misused the reference, misunderstood all its import, failed to comprehend the subtleties of application that are so vital to correctly drawing out the purpose of the verse and generally just fucked up. But he uses one reference to support something Os like and all of the sudden no one says a word. Consistency, yo! And if for once Muffti is correctly applying religious source to argument, can’t he get one li’l kudos?!? (hat tip to JM who noticed after some Muffti prodding)

  • Oh yeah, and a quick update. Much to Muffti’s shock, still no offers from Ms. Grish to go out on a date. Oh brave new world, what does a man have to do these days to get a girl to ask him out!?!?!? 🙂

  • Madd propps to Grandmuffti for citing scripture and proving that the apocalypse may be imminent.

    Here’s an idea: to prompt a girl to ask you out, you should probably let her know you exist. Not everyone responds to a blog shout-out with a dating proposal.

  • Does this mean it’s not going to work out with me and MK Tzipi Livni?

    Way to crush my heart, Esther.

  • Mufti, don’t go out. Just hang around. Talk. Walk. Get hungry. Say, c’mon. Hold the door open. Sit. Stay. Ask the waiter to bring something. It does not matter what. Don’t ponder the food. Say, yeah, that. Whatever. Keep talking about what you were talking about and ignore the food, just eat it. Don’t comment on how much arrugula they put in it.

    Talk some more. Walk it off. Say goodby. Thank her for talking, while smiling. The guy always does the thanking, never, ever, the woman. Make no promises about next time at all. Don’t say, I’ll call you. Just be there again the next day. Repeat what you did the first day.

    Hang around some more. Point yourself down a different street. Get thirsty. Hold the door open. State, c’mon. I’m thirsty. Sit down. Ask the waiter to bring something, while still talking.

    Do this enough so we all like each other a whole lot. Get married.

    Not the end of the world.

    You people are too hung up on procedure. Must be the computers.

  • The Formal Date with the White Table Cloth and the little candle on the table is for AFTER we are all pretty sure this is going very nicely.


  • The Formal Date with the White Table Cloth and the little candle on the table is for AFTER you are pretty sure this is going very, very nicely.


    THEN it is the stuff of memories, later.

    If done too early, there is cognitive dissonance: all this romantic atmosphere, and I barely know this person, what is going on here?

    Do that too often and you will fry your brain. Cognitive dissonance is not good for people.

  • What if food has more importance to you than just making the hunger pains go away?

  • Charles, you are coming from a place of full acceptance, that is cool, I totally understand and even respect that. I have lost that space that you have. So I have one foot in that mikveh so to speak, and the other foot, Gd knows where. But it is not a simple matter to just dive back in fully again, I sometimes wish it were, but it aint.

  • post 16: marry the food. Seriously, that can come later. While a human connection is being born, damn the food.

  • March? That is aweful, only good of that is the next time will be that much better, but then I say that about alot of things.
    Who decided these laws ah yes Divine.

  • Just figured out what Mufti meant by “Os”. And people say I am hard to understand. Apparently, Mufti has been to school too, and is nobody to mess with, Gemara-wise or is it Mishna.

  • Tom is right. In places like the US, where Jews are free to leave or stay as they please, it is up to us and no one else to give people a reason for staying within the tribe.

    Blaming HGBs (Hot Gentile Babes) for being HBGs is a coward’s way out. What, you are going to blame the HGBs when you think with the little head instead of the big one? Grow a freaking pair, would you?

    Like Mufti says, Bamidbar 25. Nobody forced those Moabite babes on us.

  • Ephraim, in some cultures it is more than merely being hot. I work in a Latino environment for example. One of the women in the warehouse who I yo know mumble hello and how are you, with the kidding around in offices, out of the blue asked me If I wanted her for a GF. Now if someone is so inclined and not attached, there is a lot there to consider believe me.

  • Jobber:

    Yeah, if somebody like, say, Salma Hayek, Kate Winslet, Serena Williams or (dare I dream?) Gong Li came up to me and said “I’ve heard Jewish men are hot. I really want to sleep with you.” I would be hard put to it to refuse.

    But the dilemma is the same, regardless of how forward said HGBs might be.

    Now, if Rachel Weisz, OTOH…..

  • Thanks Ephraim. Though the suggestion that growing a pair will help keep you from getting laid by an HGB or two seems, well, contrary to the nature and proper function of the pair.

  • I figured that would be lost on you, Mufti. But I threw it out there to see what would happen. And I’m glad you still have your sense of humor.

    Of course, what I meant was that Jewish men should resist the blandishments of the HGBs, as excruciatingly difficult as that is at times, and uhhh….you know, stand up for their people.

    But you knew that. And I’m glad it got a, uh, rise out of you.

  • That was a good one, Ephraim. For the record, however, the name is ‘Muffti’. First name ‘Grand’.

    Why did you think that would be lost on Muffti?

  • Ahhh….Muffti. The light dawns. Good. Very good.

    Let me put it this way: I figured you would pretend it was be lost on you so you could make a snide/leading/snarky comment to which I could respond with one of my own.

    As, I assume, you expected.

  • The fate of the world, your world, and many future worlds, meaning your kids’ and even their kids’ worlds, is in your hands.

    You have no idea how destructive this is and how long it lasts. Unless, like GM, you have learning, and then you know about the third and fourth generations. That stuff is all true.

    It’s bucket time.

  • Ephraim, Muffti likes you because you clearly think he is much more clever than he actually is.

  • Jewlicious is proud to announce our first shidduch: Ephraim and the Grandmuffti have decided to make their lovefest official with a commitment ceremony, time and date TBA.

  • No need to go all modest on me, Muffti.

    Does anybody know where JM’s meds are?