A recent survey conducted by Yediot Aharonot, a newspaper known for some sensationalism but by no means a tabloid, shows that almost a third of Israel’s population believes Yitzhak Rabin’s murderer, Yigal Amir, should be pardoned. The breakdown shows greater support among those affiliated with Israel’s political Right, and especially among those who identify themselves as “religious.”

According to the poll data – five percent of the Israeli public supports pardoning the killer already at this point in time, while 25 percent believes that he should be pardoned in 25 years from now. Some 69 percent of respondents replied that they oppose a future pardoning. This marks a significant change compared to a similar poll conducted last year by the newspaper. Figures in 2005 showed that 76 percent of Israelis opposed any pardoning, while 18 percent believed the killer should be set free.

Among respondents defining themselves as right-wing, 54 percent support a pardoning, with 47 percent setting the pardon in 25 years. Among respondents defining themselves as religious the numbers jump again – 64 percent support a pardoning: 50 percent in 25 years and 14 percent today.

On the left only one percent of those polled believes that a pardon should be granted today. 12 percent support a pardoning in 25 years.

Participants were also polled about vacations for the Prime Minister’s killer. Twenty percent of the public believes that Amir should be granted vacations from prison, while 78 percent opposed. Questions were also put in the field regarding the hotly debated issue of conjugal visits – 38 percent of respondents agreed that Amir should be allowed conjugal visits with his wife, Larissa Trimbobler, 56 percent oppose such visits.

This is disappointing to say the least. Somebody at Israel’s police headquarters must have been paying attention, though, because the police have now released an interrogation tape conducted with Amir near the time of the murder.

“I decided to kill [former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin] and I do not regret it,” Rabin’s assassin Yigal Amir was heard telling police in a tape of his interrogation released for the first time Monday.

“I approached him before he got into his car and shot him with three bullets,” Amir calmly told his interrogators.

When Amir was asked if he regretted what he did, the assassin responded: “God forbid.”

“My aim was to kill Rabin and silence him politically,” he told police.

When Amir was asked when he decided on the idea, he said: “after the first Oslo agreement.”

This man has been permitted conjugal visits with a woman who married him after he was incarcerated. He has fathered a child and demanded to be allowed to attend the child’s brit millah (circumcision). He is the beneficiary of sordid conspiracy theories where he is claimed to be nothing more than a falsely accused victim of an Israeli government plot to kill Rabin. He receives regular media attention and apparently has a growing group of supporters who believe that what he did was bad, but deserves some limitation of punishment even if Amir has not expressed the smallest regret for his actions.

Amir, a Jew, murdered another man. He has not atoned in any way and continues to proudly express views from an ideology that justifies this murder on nationalistic and perhaps even religious grounds. There is no hint that he is or was insane, brainwashed, or anything but a cold, calculating murderer who did what he did for political gain.

He deserves to rot in jail for the remainder of his life, without any conjugal visits, and rare visits from his son who should not be punished for his father’s sin. Those who support him or who give him cover by shifting the blame to others, should read his chilling words from that interview and remember that he murdered another man in cold blood.

About the author

themiddle

62 Comments

  • Rabin was a great man, but he was threatened the life of every Israeli.

    He neglected his duties to look out for his constituents, because he wanted to be “the one” who solved the conflict.

    The Israelis couldn’t stand his plan so much, that even after he was killed by a right-winger, they voted the right wing party into office.

    One would think that such an act of extremism would cause the right wing to lose the next elected….. but they kicked major butt.

    Its easy to sit in America and call Rabin an hero and Amir a villain, because Rabin wasn’t putting OUR lives on the line.

    If you were an Israeli, how would you feel? (and we know how the Israelis felt, because they voted in Likud)

  • You accuse Amir of being a “calculating murderer who did what he did for political gain”.

    He knew it was going to get him put in jail for life!!!!

    That description should be for Rabin.

    And TM, he has atoned because he doesn’t believe what he did was wrong.

  • Michelle: he has atoned because he doesn’t believe what he did was wrong ? that’s a joke right? countries have laws. people that break laws are punished. many legal systems, such as Israel’s, take into account remorse and other factors in determining sentencing. this dude has shown none. it matters not one bit whether he agreed with the law that he broke. we don’t let the perpetrators of crimes determine their own punishments.

    and your equation of Amir with Netanyahu is hilarious. A right winger (Amir) killed Rabin and the Israelis voted in a right wing leader (Bibi)…so the Israelis must have agreed with Amir’s act, right? you are either very dense or very young. Rabin’s murder was a national tragedy in Israel. Bibi does not = a fanatical right wing killer. Amir didn’t vote Likud. must I go on?

  • Michelle Says:
    “The Israelis couldn’t stand his plan so much, that even after he was killed by a right-winger, they voted the right wing party into office.”

    If I may add, Hamas’ bus bombings helped Bibi win the vote in 1996

  • Rabin was a calculating murderer who did what he did for political gain. He even killed his victims while they were swimming to shore. He never atoned.

  • some issues with the ‘new’ recording:

    – the sound is not sync’d with the picture,
    – no timestamp
    – we’re supposed to believe that it is the first interrogation 40minutes after the shooting, but Amir already knows that Rabin is dead, something that has not been even publicized,

    Why is this recording only coming out now? Maariv had a scoop over the weekend saying that the night of the murder, TNT was found in Amir’s home. Very peculiar why this major information was not publicized much earlier.

    Whether Amir did it or not is somewhat irrelevant and merely deflects attention from many other suspicious and unsettled issues about that night and the handling of the entire case. Yes middle, we Israelis doubt the official version of the case, especially since:

    – much ‘incriminating’ evidence is still secret,
    – Even Peres changed his version last year. Until then, the official version (and pathological report) was that Rabin was hit by two bullets, last year, Peres talked about the three bullets that hit Rabin (something the conspiracy people have been claiming all along).

  • Well… from all these comments and theories, I’d say something’s afoot here. Lucky for me, the ghost of Earl Warren comes to visit every so often… and he’s pretty darn sure that Amir guy acted alone.

    Unfortunately the ghost of Lee Harvey Oswald also visits every so often and he’s pretty sure it was set up by Shin Bet. But what scares me the most, is that if y’all don’t get off this, Oliver Stone will make a movie about it and then there will never be peace.

    And I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: No way does Amir get any nookie until I do. And that may not be until Moshiach arrives. And even then, he doesn’t get to decide from which gender. Dig?

  • The comission of cold blooded, pre-meditated murder deserves life in prison, I don’t care who the victim is and what the reasoning is. Yigal Amir is a douche bag and the fact that he remains unrepentant ought to be sufficient justification to deny him any sorts of privileges. And I am an Israeli. Yigal Amir did no one any favors. If Israel is meant to be a nation of laws, then Amir’s actions threaten the very fabric of society. Fuck Yigal Amir and fuck the idiots that see him as some kind of hero.

  • “The comission of cold blooded, pre-meditated murder deserves life in prison, I don’t care who the victim is and what the reasoning is.”

    Samir Kuntar and Marwan Barghouti say hi.

  • What’s your point Joshua? They deserve to be in Jail for life as well. However, the political considerations made by people far more astute than I have nothing to do with Amir’s case.

  • ramon marcos Says:
    October 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
    Well… from all these comments and theories, I’d say something’s afoot here. Lucky for me, the ghost of Earl Warren comes to visit every so often… and he’s pretty darn sure that Amir guy acted alone.
    It would seem that Warren’s ghost has forgotten about one Avishai Raviv, his Eyal organization and Raviv’s employment in the Shabak since 1988. But why let such trivialities bother the dead!

    Ironically, Rabin helped promote his own assasination. As such, I shed no tears for him and I certainly breathe a sigh of relief for the assasination’s halting the suicidal idiocy called Oslo.

    Yes, I wish Rabin would have simply paygered on his own.

    Amir? He most probably deserves to continue to pay the price, at least until some time when an open public investigation is held to determine how there can be so many inconsistancies of facts, events, documents and testimonies.

    Oh, and “srak, srak!”

  • You’re ignoring the fact that the local press and police refuses to deal with tough questions regarding the murder, such as:
    – how come Amir shot Rabin twice, but three bullets were found in his body?
    – how come the bullets don’t match Amir’s gun?
    – after the shooting, Rabin was put in car, and was “taken” to the hospital. But this is a 3/4 mile drive (measured in Google Earth), and not that they transfered him to an ambulance in the middle of the way, it also took them aprox. 20 minutes for this whole thing.
    -where is Avishay Raviv, a GSS agent (acused by right wing activists of being a provocator) today?

    For these and others, the people in Israel is kinf of suspecting that other people may had interests in this killing …

  • ck, you’re one of the most pompous, egotistical people I’ve ever encountered.

    You just claimed that the reason behind murder is irrelevant.

    I don’t even need to comment on that, your comment says a lot about your beliefs and intelligence.

    According to many people, Amir never murdered Rabin – Amir killed Rabin. Amir (who knew he’d get life in prison) sacrificed his life for everyone elses.

    The same reasoning is given to explain why Shlomo Carlebach knowingly broke halacha. Carlebach sacrificed his own reward for mitzvahs, so other people could do mitzvahs and get rewarded.

    Do you realize how great those people are, who will sacrifice themselves for other people?

    HOW GREAT THEY ARE!!!

    They are extremely special people who should be looked up and admired.

  • There’s a large group of people in Israeli prisons who also committed cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

    And are proud of it.

    AND they get vacations and conjugal visits, and are allowed to attend weddings and other family affairs as a matter of course.

    AND they are not in solitary confinement.

    AND they get released way before their sometimes-multiple life terms are up.

    AND they show not a scrap of remorse to earn release – in fact, most of them defiantly swear to kill again.

    …. but they just killed Jews.

    Why should Amir be treated any differently than Pali terrorists?

    If the Israeli prison system allows conjugal visits for other murderers – who are still much more of a danger to the public than Amir ever will be – then so should he.

    The stigmatization/demonization of Amir is clear – and it stinks.

    And those of us who lived through those years know that this demonization was systematically applied to entire sectors of Israeli society – political, ethnic, religious. And it started long before the murder.

    Muddle – Instead of cranking up your self-righteous umbrage, maybe you should ask why so many people much closer to events, and better informed than you, smell a rat.

  • Michelle, ever hear that the ends do not justify means?

    That holds for Amir but no less so for the stinking rot of government, secuirty and (so-called) judicial systems that has been Israel’s sad fate pretty much since its inception.

    May I please suggest you don’t sully Reb Shlomo’s name any more than you have? He was a long-time personal acquaintance of my family’s.

  • For this just one answer:

    Gedaliah

    How long we need to learn?

    The first by idolatry and murder, the second by mutual hatred.

    2000 years are not enough?

    He killed, he was judged, but his words say everything. And he still considers to be a Jew?

    For me, Justice is the key.

    But demonization of Amir will make him an angel, avoid that.
    Show him as he wants to be: a murderer.

    An ordinary murderer, not a saint.

  • Bruno, here is the history of Tzom Gedaliah. There is no comparison between the assasinations.

    Gedaliah sought the return of the land of Israel to the Jews. Rabin did just the opposite, with tragic consequences we are still living through today.

    Finally, Jewish murderers are still Jews.

  • rootlesscosmo Says:
    October 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
    They’re also murderers.

    I didn’t say otherwise, whereas Bruno said they’re not Jews.

    Sarah Says:
    October 23rd, 2007 at 12:42 pm
    And killing a person (apart from war situations; different rules apply there) is a sin.

    Who was the commanding Palmach officer that gave the order to open fire against the defenseless passengers of the Altelena?

    What goes around, comes around.

  • Sarah Says:
    October 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pm
    So people may play Judgement Day?

    At times but the G-d of history perpetually judges.

  • The Israeli electorate voted for Bibe, over Peres, not over Rabin. Whether they would have voted for Bibe over Rabin, we shall never know. Cause they didnt get to make that choice, Amirs bullet made the choice for them. That is what sets Amirs murder apart from that of ordinary murders – it was a denial of democracy, it was making political choice not by vote, but by violence. That some here would justify it, because they didnt like Rabins policies, shows how poor the democratic education of some Jews still is.

  • To compare Amir’s situation to Sirhan Sirhan and John Hinckley, the questions of different treatment usually are related to parole rather than prison priviliges.

    So maybe let him have conjugal visits if it’s afforded to all other prisoners. But under the condition he’s only allowed conjugal visits with Ann Coulter.

  • I take that back – not the Coulter thing but that Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity. A better example would be Squeaky Fromme, crazy Manson lady who didn’t quite shoot at Gerald Ford. Anyways, there’s a law stating any attempt on the life of the President is automatically a life sentence.

    Otherwise you get the same chores as the other murderers and rapists.

  • justayid Says:
    October 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm
    That some here would justify it, because they didnt like Rabins policies, shows how poor the democratic education of some Jews still is.

    Could it be that those Jews could no longer handle the horror of being randomly selected as the next “sacrifices for peace”, to quote the dead Prime Minister. Maybe being Rabin & Peres’ guinea pigs for Oslo’s resulting reign of terror isn’t what democracy is all about.

  • The conspiracy theory argument doesn’t hold for a simple reason: Even if there was a conspiracy theory and Amir didn’t shoot the bullet that murdered Rabin, he thought he did. He still intended to murder Rabin EVEN IF the conspiracy theories are right (and I do agree that there is a lot of sketchy things that do raise questions and deserve serious answers), Yigal Amir still would have shot blanks, thinking they are real bullets, at Rabin. He still intended to murder the Prime Minister. He still deserves life in prison, since Israel has no death penalty. If other prisoners get furloughs, that is what should stop, not being light on Rabin.

    Look, I opposed Rabin’s policies. My family are Revisionist Zionists, including one of the people falsely accused of murdering Chaim Arlozoroff, who knew many people on the Altalena, and so am I. Had I been in Israel and old enough, I would have voted Bibi against Rabin. But Rabin was the Prime Minister of Israel, democratically elected. Halachically he had the status of Malkhei Yisrael. Amir still murdered the Prime Minister and, in fact, set the Oslo process forward. Had Rabin not been murdered, perhaps it could have been stopped when thousands of innocent lives on both lives could have been saved. But the point is, murder is wrong, attempted murder is wrong if the conspiracists are right, and especially murdering the Prime Minister. The ballot is the only ONLY ONLY acceptable solution.

  • Michelle wrote: “ck, you’re one of the most pompous, egotistical people I’ve ever encountered.”

    Have we ever met? In any case, thanks for putting me back in my place. When most of your social interaction happens via computer screen you tend to lose sight of your place in this world. I will strive to be more cognizant of my relative insignificance.

    As for my statement – I don’t wish to get into either a semantic or legal argument with you. If Yigal Amir was acting in self-defense, it wouldn’t be murder. If Amir happened to have a pistol on him and in a heated moment decided to off Rabin, that would be manslaughter. As it is, he admitted that he decided to shoot Rabin and did so with forethought and malice. His reasons are irrelevant. He is an admitted and unrepentant murderer. This is not how we settle arguments in society based on laws. If everyone followed Amir’s example, it would be total chaos and anarchy. Amir is a douchebag and if they ever let him out of jail, I promise that at the very least, I will find him and spit in his face.

    Michelle also wrote: “Do you realize how great those people are, who will sacrifice themselves for other people?”

    You mean like fucking Jesus? Seriously Michelle. I am starting to feel bad about calling attention to your incoherent ramblings. Please tell me you’re retarded so that I can leave you be.

  • Amechad: the video and almost every eyewitness account has Amir shouting “Srak!Srak!” – which is Hebrew for “Blanks” as in “I’m shooting blanks”.

    So Amir knew he wasn’t killing Rabin.

    The forensics expert testified before the government panel that Rabin’s clothing showed the effects of close-range fire – like when a gun is pressed against someone and fired.

    Amir was nowhere near him.

    Rabin was videotaped walking easily to his car after Amir supposedly shattered his spine. The bodyguards grab him and almost force him into the car.

    Then it takes over 10 minutes to drive 5 blocks to Ichilov hospital – on streets emptied for security reasons. And Rabin shows up with gunshot wounds – inflicted at close range.

    None of the above relies on rumor-mongering, but on video and forensic evidence, and widely corroborated eyewitness accounts.

    So what happened?

  • [i]Could it be that those Jews could no longer handle the horror of being randomly selected as the next “sacrifices for peace”, to quote the dead Prime Minister. Maybe being Rabin & Peres’ guinea pigs for Oslo’s resulting reign of terror isn’t what democracy is all about.[/i]

    There was terror before Oslo. What democracy is about is allowing the elected government of Israel to set policy, including policy on the territories, negotiation with the Palestinians, etc. Deciding that its appropriate to use an assasins bullet to remove an elected leader you dont like is the negation of democracy. Its determining that because you dont like the govt policy, you can change govt policy through violence.

    Lots of Israelis didnt like Bibis policies, and felt he was sacrificing Israels future for the sake of the settlements. Did that give them the right to shoot him?

    If Israel is to be a place where competitive acts of violence are to be the way policy is settled, than that hardly makes Israel very different from Gaza, or any of many other polities in the Middle East. That was the shock, and why Israeli society reacted and continues to react with horror.

  • BD, easy thing, tribal people unfamiliar with shotguns have shown to run for about 300 metres before eventually dropping dead after being shot. Scientists say that people that aren’t aware of being shot can act pretty normally for a little while before they collapse.

  • Ben-David Says:
    October 24th, 2007 at 6:01 am
    the video and almost every eyewitness account has Amir shouting “Srak!Srak!” – which is Hebrew for “Blanks” as in “I’m shooting blanks”.

    This is inaccurate. Let me quote from David Morrison’s book Lies, Israel’s Secret Service and the Rabin Murder, page 30. This is a quote of Mordi Yisrael, a Tel Aviv College media student on a study assignment. He was a very direct eyewitness, as reported in an interview printed in Israel’s newspaper Yediot Acharonot. Excerpt:

    “Even then I noticed how easy it was to get to Rabin. I saw his rear body guard stop in his tracks to have a few words with a policeman. Rabin was totally uncovered and I just stepped up to him. He was ignoring my questions and walking at a fast clip. Finally, I got his attention and he turned around to answer me. Then I heard the shot. He turned to me simultaneously with the shot. But I don’t think either of us thought there was any danger since the noise wasn’t like a gunshot, rather like a harmless party popper….. Immediately after the shot, I heard someone shout from the crowd, “Srak, Srak!” (“They’re blanks, they’re blanks!”)”

    Morrison’s book then goes on to quote many others at the scene, again as reported by Yediot. They include a Shabak agent, the Shabak’s personal security head, a policeman, Rabin’s driver and more. Some say that Amir himself said “Srak, Srak”. Some say a policeman or someone else shouted it. Some of them also say that the shots did not sound real.

    For a last quote, also from Morrison’s book (buy it, for heaven’s sake!), here’s daughter Leah Rabin, from her book “Walking in His Way”, p.23:

    “Suddenly I stood alone. I heard the crowd whispering and someone shout, ‘It wasn’t real.’ And then a second security man pulled me into the front seat of the second car in line. This was the car of the security men [Shabak] who accompanied us from our house to the rally.”

    Sarah, you definitely need to read the book.

  • Shy Guy, give me five good reasons why I need to read that book. I received a delivery of thirteen books yesterday that want to be read as well.

  • Sarah, give yourself the good reasons why you should buy a book that attempts to document (with notations) established reports and interviews with various unrelated people and witnesses, as well as present evidential contradictions as to how the government’s version of the assasination simply doesn’t jive.

    You know what? Save yourself the money, at least for now, and at a minimum read the 4-article story I linked to earlier: Documentary stuns: evidence a third bullet hit Rabin from the front. Again, this was done by a skeptical Israeli reporter, who himself concludes that something appears to be rotten in the State of Israel. This was broadcast nationally on Israel’s Channel 2, no friend of religious right wing Jews, believe you me.

    After you’ve read the articles, it would be most interesting to read your comments on them.

  • Shy Guy, to quote one of my brothers, “If someone’s too dumb to go into research or skilled labour, they’ll become a journalist”.

  • Of course, Sarah, mocking journalists as a whole is a double-edged sword. So, which side of the story can you believe? Ah there’s the rub!

  • I’m neither a pathologist nor has watching CSI turned me into a crime investigation expert, but when I’ve got the choice between two stories, I’m inclined to accept that one that sounds least like a conspiration theory.

  • I don’t understand why people don’t believe the recording of Amir during the interrogation.

    People who scoff at “truther” theories about 9/11 because they’re on the receiving end, have no problem coming up with their own for Rabin’s murder by Amir.

    Michelle’s comments in this thread are the mindset behind Amir’s actions. The feeling was, among some pockets in the population, that Rabin was committing a basic sin against the Jewish state. In this school of thought, putting an end to Oslo would have the effect of bringing order to the situation and preventing a historic mistake.

    It isn’t unusual to have believers and true believers who take actions after listening to the believers.

    Trying to find a missing bullet or seeking to understand why anybody would ever shoot blanks at a prime minister is a little too heavy for me, if you know what I mean. It is simpler to believe that a man who held a gun up behind a prime minister and pulled the trigger and then admitted to his actions in a police interrogation is guilty of murder.

    This isn’t some talmudic exercise.

  • Justayid, please use a different fake email address. I think the one you are using is sending your comments to the spam pile that we usually erase automatically.

  • themiddle Says:
    October 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
    I don’t understand why people don’t believe the recording of Amir during the interrogation.

    TM, to the best of my knowledge, there is no documented evidence that shows that Amir had any other intention other than to assasinate Rabin. If someone can show us otherwise, please do. Otherwise, TM, there is no argument on that point.

    However do note that the just released interogation film of Amir is chopped and spliced to pieces. This alone doesn’t indicate anything. Maybe someone in the Israeli police department was an extreme novice user of MS Movie maker. But you must wonder why someone went out of their way to edit the film so heavily if there are no state secrets to hide. In any case, Amir’s words on the tape reveal nothing new and do not contradict what was already documented as Amir’s own words.

    Here’s a simple question: is the interviewed woman in this Nov. 1999 interview in Olam Ha’Isha magazine also a 4/11 “truther”? It’s your choice.

    Note that I personally do not reference David Rutstein’s writings for any of his opinions, though they may coincide at times with mine. His site is simply the only one I can google for right now that has the verbatim text of the Olam Ha’Isha article. I read the original article in Hebrew in the 1999 magazine issue. And – no – I do not otherwise read Olam Ha’Isha! 🙂

    People who scoff at ‘truther’ theories about 9/11 because they’re on the receiving end, have no problem coming up with their own for Rabin’s murder by Amir.

    What do these conspiracies have to do with each other? Just the opposite, one is heavily disproven, the other is not, even according to Ha’aretz’s own Tom Segev, no lover of the anti-Rabin crowd. Try searching for what Segev had to say about Barry Chamish’s book back in 1999. And again, refer to the documentary aired on Channel 2 again last night. These are not right wing ‘truthers’ bringing this up and 12 years have passed with no one succeeding to resolve the inconsistancies. Rather, people have disappeared out of sight and others have remained clammed up. Does this sound like an open and shut case, which it certainly should have been if you do nothing more than acknoledge that Amir pulled a trigger 3 times behind Rabin’s back.

    Michelle’s comments in this thread are the mindset behind Amir’s actions. The feeling was, among some pockets in the population, that Rabin was committing a basic sin against the Jewish state. In this school of thought, putting an end to Oslo would have the effect of bringing order to the situation and preventing a historic mistake.

    It isn’t unusual to have believers and true believers who take actions after listening to the believers.

    Or to Avishai Raviv, who preached the same to Yig’al Amir. And if you don’t believe that, you don’t believe anyone because even Karpin and Friedman’s anti-conspiracy book “Murder in the Name of G-d; The Plot to Kill Yitzhak Rabin” acknowledges that Raviv was a Shabak employed agent provacateur. There is no one that argues against this fact, only people who would prefer that all of this quietly disappears down the memory hole. I suggest you search for Sarah Eliash’s testimony at the Shamgar Commission to read just what Raviv was trying to provoke. And this is at a minimum the crux of the matter, that a Shabak agent, working for their filthy “Department of Jewish Affairs” (the thought of this should make one sick) directly goaded Amir to kill Rabin, with Raviv himself labeling it a “holy mission”.

    And the names Rubenstein and especially Beinish keep popping up in regard to the supression of information (and staged provocations in Beinish’s case), all in the name of ‘state secrets’ and ‘national security’. It just gets uglier.

    One need not theorize anything. One need simply to hear, read and see the films, and numerous testimonies and interviews to become aware of the contradictions. Someone is lying.

  • One begins to wonder whether our Sarah here is actually Imelda Markos incognito.

    And please, no one respond with “if the shoe fits.”

  • Shy Guy, not quite, though I’ve been compared to her before, but I only own about 100 pairs of shoes and have earnt each and every penny to pay for them myself.

  • He should have been executed.

    I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.

  • michael Says:
    October 28th, 2007 at 7:56 am

    I know that Israel has no death penalty, but there are a few folks out there who need it, and Amir is one of them.

    So was Rabin, for his giving the order (Ben Gurion’s BTW) to fire on the Altalena, murdering 17 people in cold blood.

    Or has “just following orders” become a legitimate excuse?

    17 people, Jews killed by Jews. Not bad for one afternoon’s work.

  • B”H
    Yigal Amir should be exchanged for Ehud Olmert and Co.
    They should take his place in prison.
    Here is a new video presentation explaining why Yigal Amir should be freed:
    http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2011252

    PS. By the way halachikaly speaking Yigal Amir
    is exempt from punishment for killing Rabin who as has been pointed out in comments above volunteered to shoot innocent Jews on the Altalena .
    According to Torah law someone who kills a murderer is exempt from punishment in human court.

  • Oh, Mr. Pilegesh, if you’ll look above, it was I who initially mentioned Rabin’s hand in the travesty of the Altalena.

    However, there is no known testimony that Rabin himself actually fired a weapon with his own hands against the Altalena and even if he did, no verification that he actually hit someone.

    And as you must know, “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.” Giving the orders to murder is not the equivalent of doing the actual murdering.

    Your halachic analysis here is as lame as what your blog attempts to promote.

  • B”H
    Dear Shy guy.
    As you are obviously not aware “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.” doesn’t usually apply to military orders since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order.
    “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah” however doesn’t apply to the case of Rabin himself following the order of Ben Gurion to murder their fellow Jews on Altalena for political gain because others refused to obey this order, but he volunteered of his own free will.
    As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview ( see here http://pilegesh.blogspot.com/2006/12/iso-kosher-concubine.html ) that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.)
    As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own screen name “shy guy” how lame can that be?
    Reminds me of the storyin the Memories ofthe Lubavitcher Rebbe about a Chossid of the Baal Shem Tov who callled up 10 most modest and humble people. And when 10 people got up and stood in line number 4 told number 3 “In reality I should be in your place as I am more humble than you however being so humble I don’t mind so you can keep your place.”
    🙂

  • Is that you, Ariel? Or do you prefer Noah Smith nowdays?

    Back on topic:

    As you are obviously not aware “Ein Shaliach Li’dvar Aveirah.” doesn’t usually apply to military orders

    No, I’m not aware. I’m a grosse Am Ha’Aretz. Site your source.

    …. since soldiers are trained and drilled to obey orders and can be punished or even executed (in war time) for refusing to obey order.

    This doesn’t nullify “Ein Shaliach”. In a best case scenario, this would be “Anus Rachmana Patrei.”

    This is all beside the fact that Rabin received no “Hatra’ah” nor was he ever tried, let alone in front of a Halachic Bet Din.

    As far as my blog you are clearly not qualified to judge its merits if you can so confidently invoke ein shliach ledvar aveira in regards to military orders. The blog has a Chareidi dayan in Yerushalaim as the main posek

    Yes, you repeat that ad nauseum everywhere you post. People wouldn’t buy chickens with an anonymous hechsher but are expected to bed down with Gilui Arayot under such dubious claims to anonymity.

    everything I write in it in regards to halacha is based on the words of our sages and even the Avi Shafran spokesman of the Agudat Israel of America of all people agreed in a newspaper interview that what I promote is permitted albeit not normative.

    You left out what Rabbi Shafran first had to say about you, and I quote:

    “He should call Agudah’s volunteer services department and we’ll help him get a life.”

    How convenient to forget his introductory words. But who can blame you?!

    In any case, Shafran’s full quote is:

    “While conceding that the practice is not a sin, Rabbi Shafran said “many things are permitted but not engaged in. This is not anything that is normative in the Jewish world. The definition of a marriage is between a man and one wife, like the first man and his wife.”

    In any case, this has been well covered by such fascinating and heileger blogs as FailedMessiah, etc.

    As far as it being lame or nor kol haposel be mumo posel just look at your very own screen name ‘shy guy’ how lame can that be?

    I’m lovin’ it!

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