Jewish students at York University in Toronto were forced to take refuge in the Hillel office last Wednesday night as anti-Israel protesters banged on the glass doors, chanting, “Die, bitch, go back to Israel,” and “Die, Jew, get the hell off campus.”

The students had taken part in a press conference held to call for an impeachment of the student government at York, because of a long strike by teachers’ assistants.

Hillel at York partnered with other campus groups in a campaign called Drop YFS (York Federation of Students), aimed at impeaching the student government for its support of the 12-week strike at the university, which ended on February 2.

Daniel Ferman, president of Hillel at York, said that after the number of people attending the press conference exceeded 40, organizers barred additional students from entering, citing fire regulations.

Students outside the meeting room banged on the doors and chanted “Let the colored people in,” even though students from a variety of backgrounds were present, which led to the cancellation of the press conference, according to a first person account by student Orit Tepper.

In the hallway of the student center, students attempting to exit the meeting room were greeted with cries of “Zionism equals racism!” and “Racists off campus!”

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  • Jewish Jihad and Jews for gaza.This is the reason i hate J-Street and there kind.I bet the guy screaming on these videos is tough guy talking all kinds of trash when he is in a crowd but does say a word when he is by himself.

  • this reminds me of the fear iraqi students felt when american soldiers forced iraqi students of campus to make their hostel a military barrack, oh wait……..

    you jews are lucky this is all you are getting

  • I bet the guy screaming on these videos is tough guy talking all kinds of trash when he is in a crowd but does say a word when he is by himself.

    Um, I’m pretty sure the guy yelling “Jews for Jihad” was a member of the pro-Israel camp (probably the guy holding the video camera) taunting the “Jews with Gaza” folks. He probably thought he was being clever, but really he was just contributing to the overall tension and sense of irreconcilable difference between the camps. Way to go!

    Like I said on Kelsey’s blog, I’m usually disappointed at how those videos are filled with a bunch of unintelligible adrenaline-pumped people spewing hateful rhetoric past each other. And there was plenty of that here. But I was actually impressed that in this case the pro-Israel camp at least decided not to dance the hora to “Am Yisrael Chai” or some other nationalist song that implies they don’t give a hoot about the Palestinians, but to try to drown out the “shame” cries with a pro-peace song, Sheva’s “Salaam.” So +1 for the Hillel crowd. Except the “Jews for Jihad” taunter.

  • It looks to me like those videos show two different incidents on the same day. The first one is the crowd described outside the press conference. The rest look like they’re somewhere else and are an organized planned Palestine rally.

  • @themiddle, when people on both sides are chanting “shame shame shame” at each other, the anti-Zionists are screaming “racist” taunts at the Zionists, and the Zionists are screaming “Jews for Jihad” taunts at the Jewish anti-Zionists and “terrorist” taunts at the non-Jewish anti-Zionists, I’d call it hateful rhetoric past each other. Taunting and name calling accomplishes nothing more than pissing off the other side.

    I had very mixed feelings about Operation Cast Lead, because on the one hand I was not at all convinced that it would accomplish anything (nor in retrospect am I convinced that it did accomplish anything other than killing a handful of terrorists and a lot more innocent people, and stirring up a heck of a lot more anti-zionist and anti-Jewish hate around the world). But at the same time I couldn’t bring myself to support any of the left-wing pseudo-Zionist organizations like JStreet that were actively campaigning against it, because I don’t know what the hell else Israel is supposed to do to defend itself. I really wanted to support Mobius’s rally, but I didn’t agree with its ultimate message of “stop the bombing now,” because I hoped Israel could accomplish something with the bombing. Yet I also couldn’t bring myself to go anywhere near most of the “pro-Israel” rallies, where far too many participants seemed to be practically celebrating the operation without any acknowledgment of the human toll or the possibility that Israel might be wrong to do what it was doing (whether that meant specific tactics or the operation as a whole).

    My point is that I’m almost always disappointed when I see people waving Israeli flags “in solidarity with Israel” at counter-protests against pro-Palestine protests. If you really want to win over people from the other side, show your support for a real, fair two-state solution by bringing Israeli AND Palestinian flags and carrying signs that make it clear you stand by Israel’s right to defend itself, but that you also support the Palestinians’ ultimate right to a real state of their own. Then you’ll give the pro-Palestinian camp something to think about, rather than providing implicit fodder for the extremists’ claims that Zionists are racist, land-grabbing, bloodlusting Nazis.

  • If you really want to win over people from the other side

    I don’t think that in the Diaspora, the other side is particularly ripe for “winning over.” As a Diasporist and a realist who doesn’t believe that he and others here are empowered to resolve the Israeli-Arab conflict, I believe containing the other side’s numbers here is a far more pragmatic option.

    Limiting mass immigration of Muslims is the single most important factor for doing just that. And the mainstream Jewish community seems united and mobilized to achieve just the opposite.

    This, of course, apparently makes me a “xenophobe,” “cryto-fascist,” and of course, a racist.

    So be it. Facilitating synagogue bombings, beatings, terrorist shootings (Hello, Seattle Federations!), and plenty of other “anti-Zionist” violence through irresponsible immigration policies is something I will not allow without screaming bloody murder.

    My social-democratic ancestors fought the Commies in the unions, in the Yiddish newspapers, and on the streets. They were always called nasty names by the far-Left. The far-Left has morphed, but it is the same thing really.

    The moderate-Left will wake up from its stupor. They will awaken. They must awaken.

  • xisnotxx thanks for the laugh.But that got me thinking what would i do to marry ESTI GINZBURG.But then again you know what they say Be careful what you wish for;>

  • DK, when I talk about winning over the other side, I don’t expect Islamic extremists to suddenly love Israel.

    But I do hope that the mainstream moderate Left, which tends to dominate intellectual discourse in North America (on college campuses, in the major newspapers, etc.) can be reminded that Israel has a rightful place in the world as a Jewish state, and that the belief in Israel’s right to exist and defend itself does not make one a baby-killing fascist.

    If these rallies are to accomplish anything, it should be to seek to win the propaganda war for neutral parties’ hearts and minds. And the way to achieve that in a moderate Left environment like a university campus is to show people that your side is the one that truly wants peaceful co-existence (which is why I lauded the singing of Sheva’s “Salaam”), NOT taunting people on the other side or waving an Israeli flag in the face of someone who is upset that children are dying–or changing the subject to immigration.

  • themicah, then I misunderstood you. I don’t see the moderate-Left as on the other side. I seem them as on the sidelines. I agree that their perceptions are important.

  • That video is definitely hilarious. But like a lot of good satire, if you don’t know the background (that the video isn’t actually trying to justify Israel’s actions in Gaza–but is making fun of the Israeli Ministry of Defense’s propaganda in support of the operation), it’s really easy to misconstrue it. I also find interesting the subtle differences between the subtitles in the one you posted and this version.

  • I still don’t see these groups as the same. The top video clarifies how the pro-Palestinian Jews feel about Israel and it is brutally ugly. In fact, it speaks to the destruction of Israel since their attack is upon Zionists, the supposed immorality of Zionists and it follows that they seek to destroy the Zionist creation and dream. At the same time, these Jewish students are surrounded by non-Jews who are clearly out of line in how they treat Jewish supporters of Israel who are not permitted to pass through without at least some verbal molestation.

    This is serious intimidation. This physical and verbal abuse by this crowd is what you liken to the demonstration where the person in the smaller pro-Israel group shouts at a group of Jews in the much larger group supporting Gaza that they are “Jews for Jihad.”

    Is that intimidating or a call for the destruction of a people, a movement or a state? Actually it isn’t any of these. In fact, you could label the claim accurate since the army fighting for Gaza was Hamas, an extremist Islamic group whose ideology regarding Israel is based upon the idea of jihad against the non-Muslim interlopers who have no right to Muslim lands.

    It isn’t just that the pro-Israelis sing a song about peace, it is what they desire. The other side, however, while claiming a desire for peace, is advocating the destruction of what makes Israel Israel.

    Funny video, by the way. Here’s Subliminal, the subject of the satire.

  • themiddle, as usual I agree with you 90% of the way. There is absolutely a difference in what the two sides advocate, but that’s exactly what we need to highlight, because I don’t think a lot of the people who support the anti-Israel folks truly understand what that difference is (and too many of the people who support the pro-Israel folks take it for granted and forget that not everyone understands it).

    You know Zionism isn’t inherently racist, that it’s not immoral. And so do I. And that’s the message that needs to come across. Instead, by waving Israeli flags and taunting the people on the other side the room, we’re reinforcing the image for those who are predisposed to see it that we’re celebrating the destruction of Gaza, that we don’t care if Arab children die, etc.

    That’s exactly why I think we need to hand out Palestinian flags to all the people at the pro-Israel rallies. We need participants waving an Israeli flag in one hand and a Palestinian flag in the other. A sign that says “I support a state of Israel AND a state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and harmony” does way more to counter a “Zionism = racism” sign than a sign that says “Hamas is violating more international laws than Israel” (what’s an acceptable gap?) or simply “Israel has a right to defend itself” (at what cost?).

    We need people like you who understand the nuances of the situation to drown out the idiots who provide fodder for the far-left to spread lies about the immorality of Zionism. And we need to remember that our audience is the moderate and not-so-moderate Left–we need to speak THEIR moral language, not the language of those who are already convinced of Israel’s infallibility.

  • I think these Hillel students tried to do that. It isn’t easy to be non-confrontational or peaceful and harmonious when you enter the lion’s den and it is packed with people who hate you and what you stand for.

    But I hear you. The middle ground is where we need to stand our ground and if we’re dragged to either the right or the left by the other side, we should resist mightily.

  • themicah:

    “nor in retrospect am I convinced that it did accomplish anything other than killing a handful of terrorists and a lot more innocent people”

    Well then you are just parroting Hamas propaganda b/c the IDF just this week confirmed that 2/3 of those killed were Hamas

  • The Kvetcher says:
    ‘The more Muslims that come here, the more the Arab-Israeli conflict will continue to spill unto our own streets and into our own schools’.Beware what you wish for Kvetcher, you might just get it!Your unconditional love for Israel and its racist zionist policies blinds you and you can’t realize that the same could be said of Jews: ”The more Jews that come here, the more the Arab-Israeli conflict will continue to spill unto our own streets and into our own schools’. This is indirectly inviting anti-semitism in our midst. Once you allow that type of rhetoric against any minority, it’s just a question of time for the anti-Semites to come out of the bushes, jump on on the bandwagon and start singling out Jews.

    There are two main points i’d like to make on the ME issue, as an America citizen who doesn’t have dual citizenship, like so many of our fellow citizen Jews:

    -1948 the UN creates Israel.
    -Then we throw our full fledge support behind Israel for decades fearing the elusive spread of communism in the region. (It is my belief, having lived among the different peoples of the region, that there was never a threat of people in the Gulf states to turn to communism! It was an argument on which i think the Jewish lobby skillfully played to get finance and arms, realizing that at the time everybody in Washington saw red everywhere. Remember Mc Carthy?)
    -Add to that over $1.5 Trillon at taxpayers expense given to Israel.

    What do we get? Zilch! Zero! But a big headache, a few terrorist attacks on our soil and on our men and women abroad and the most outrageous deficit. And still over 60% of the world jewish population lives outside Israel!
    And the ones living in the US have a suspicious duality regarding their allegiance when it comes to choosing between the USA and Israel that makes me fume!

    Our White House chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel preferred to join the IDF, albeit as a volunteer in a non-combat unit, when our troops were militarily engaged in the Gulf in 91! and this guy has now security clearance at the highest level of our government! Unbelievable!

    I understand the dilemma the Jewish people face. They need a land of their own, they have been wandering and persecuted for centuries. But what they are doing is not the answer.There is a Jewish proverb that says:

    “One who is merciful to the wicked will ultimately be cruel to the righteous.” Jewish Proverb

    This simple proverb embodies the deepest most esoteric reality of the modern Jewish People struggling for a State of their own after having suffered inhuman atrocities:we have been merciful to the Nazis, let’s be cruel to the Palestinians!

    Sorry, but I will never be merciful to the wicked and cruel to the righteous! No matter who they are, even is it means going against my own flesh and blood. No matter one’s faith, i don’t know of any that advocate or recommend injustice and unfair treatment of a human being.

    Either America can play an even fair peace broker in the region, or we just get the hell out of there and let them sort their problems out on their own.


  • Well then you are just parroting Hamas propaganda b/c the IDF just this week confirmed that 2/3 of those killed were Hamas

    And what about the other third? Given the horrid reality of war, maybe (MAYBE) one can justify killing an innocent if it makes it possible to kill two bad guys, but it’s certainly not a cause for celebration. Meanwhile, the stated goal of the operation–stopping rocket attacks–does not seem to have been achieved, judging by the continued QassamCount status messages I’m seeing on facebook. And Israel has suffered a massive blow to its image, whether or not that blow was deserved.

    Like I said, I did not support calls for an externally imposed ceasefire, because I hoped Israel would accomplish something real. But I’m not convinced that killing a handful (and I consider even hundreds of Hamas members to be a handful in the grand scheme of things) of completely fungible terrorists to be an accomplishment worth the cost.

  • Hey ‘theMiddle’ of nowhere: maybe i’m a Jew who is against Israel’s currant policy or the sheer existence of Israel? But to you i probably deserve to die?! Way to go!

    John Frederick Boyes once said: “Violence in the voice is often only the death rattle of reason in the throat.”

    So keep it up you foul mouth, you sound just like those nut cases on the other side!

  • Once you allow that type of rhetoric against any minority, it’s just a question of time for the anti-Semites to come out of the bushes, jump on on the bandwagon and start singling out Jews.

    Oh, sure. The shrewd thing to do is clearly support the masss immigration of all people — particularly Muslims — since we’re “all minorities.”

    Clearly. It’s worked so very well in Europe, and is flowering in Canada quite successfully as well.

  • Although I am aggressive original idea Zionist and past my university age. I did not see anything bad coming from pro-Palestinian demonstrators. They are wrong and maybe little bit too noisy. But they have the right to their opinion. Question is what are they supporting? A Hamas? A extreme religious theocracy – no rights to women, gays, different ethic, religious, political groups? Maybe Islamic group which rape women and then force them to be “martyr suicide bombers” or get stoned? You see they are for freedom of choice! What about those who throw acid on young school girls? They had to study chemistry. Good for education. The world of 21st century is moving past the nation-state concept, The Muslim world is moving back toward 7th century with all the tribal dark age values. If I was there I would ask those young women, do you really want to wear burka?

  • Stan R, i agree Hamas might not be the answer, but does it justify such unjust brutality against the people? I would first argue with you that it’s not the majority of Palestinians or Muslims that behave or think as criminally as you suggest.Although we have here in Israel Jewish Nazis or extremists, not all of Jews are.So let’s not portray all Arabs and Muslims as barbaric beats. We all know too well where it leads.

    Also let’s not forget that Hamas was prompted by the Israel’s goernment: the old adage, divide and rule. It is an old government strategy to ensure that on the other side radicals take over so we could tell the world: ‘see people, those Arabs are extremist nut cases. We can’t deal with them. The only option is brutal ruthless force against them”. But this strategy today backfired because the geopolitics of today have changed.

    Also,Hamas was elected in Gaza not only, because it was the only one speaking out against Fatah’s corruption, but at the time it was also the only one who provided their people with a minimum of decent social welfare and help. And let’s not forget that today Hamas enjoys an even stronger following in the West Bank too after Lead Cast.

    Being so ruthless and barbaric with the people the way we have been in Gaza lately, just further alienate those who are on the fence and pushes them further in the camp of those who believe rightfully or not that we hate them and want to exterminate them. The world is watching us, the PR tide is shifting.I say: watch out people,today’s protector could easily turn into tomorrow’s tormentor! It is history repeating itself. So for those who believe that our support from the US or the west is eternal, i say: think again!Israel is only 60 years old. In term of world history it’s nothing. It could disappear tomorrow like the Jewish City States of the past. The only option is a just fair solution for both people. But unless we recognize the other one’s humanity and right to dignity, we will fail to assure the Jewish people well being in the long run.

  • And here in the US most Jews voted for that damned socialist Obama, remember Yonah?! Not to mention all those European socialists that were the founding fathers of Israel!

  • Mark, I’ve just looked at all the comments you left on here, and was somewhat confused by the information you’ve provided about yourself. Hope you don’t mind me asking, are you a European Jew, a Jew of European origin residing in Israel that is pro-Israel, a non-Jewish American citizen, or a Jewish American citizen that is against the state of Israel?

  • Hi Mark,
    Was it brutal and was it unjust? I always try to conflict to personal level. If someone was at front of you waving a knife and screaming “I am going to kill you”. Would your action to remove the knife, of hitting and maybe even badly injuring that person brutal or unjust? If the people around him who encouraged him to attack were injured in process, would you consider that immoral?

    The Hamas like Nazis in Germany were elected “western type” democratically while both advocate “dictatorship” tribal type governance. Both have increased their popular support by supposedly bringing “order”, “welfare” to populace. Hamas by milking word charities,UN, propaganda, terror and Nazis by slave labor, propaganda, terror.

    Islam is much more dangerous than National Socialism. Nazis were only nation state movement. Still costing human race upward of 60,000,000 people. If Islam (and I don’t believe there is a middle-of-the-road Islam as there was not middle of the road National Socialism) is going to be uncheck our human cost will be much higher.

    I believe the solution is education and economic improvement not welfare and “bleeding harts” closed eyes.

  • So Stan if i hear you right, what you’re saying is that Islam is worst than National Socialism, right, no matter what shape, form or variant? And how do you go about ‘keeping Islam in check’ as you’d like? I mean how do you keep the over 1.2 billion Muslims ‘in check’? What you are advocating in barely veiled terms is the total eradication of Islam and Muslims! Be honest and straightforward at least.You were probably not among those appalled and outraged at the genocide perpetrated against Muslim Bosnians by Serbs!? Deep down in your heart you must have rejoiced! A Jew rejoicing at that is like a Jew in Jerusalem who paints a Zvastika on walls! He’s lost his soul!

    As for Hamas, you still refuse to recognize first that it is Israel’s government that prompted and promoted them hoping to divide the Palestinian civil society to better control them.They are the ones that created the monster.
    Secondly, Hamas signed a deal with Israel’s Government under which the borders were to be reopened. Hamas was to stop firing rockets. Hamas did stop firing rockets. Even one of Israel’s security officials recognized that Hamas stopped and it was a splinter group that fired rockets.A group that Hamas was trying to control. Maybe if we had helped them we wouldn’t have reached that escalation. But Israel’s Government neither reopened the borders nor stopped assassinations.They just preferred to stop any flow of medicine food or fuel to choke them to death,hoping people would get angry at Hamas and overthrow them. To create people’s misery and suffering for political gains is just plain inhuman . What do you then expect Hamas to do? Behave the way we did before WWII? remain silent,submissive and merciful towards the enemy? You cannot choke a people to death and expect them to remain submissive!

    So to you Stan I say: think twice before you open your heart to injustice, racial hatred. What is right is right. Even the word of truth coming out of your enemy’s mouth is the truth.Today Muslims are the target of the ‘civilized world’s wrath.And you might rejoice. Tomorrow it will be the Jewish people again. And you will have to find an other sultan to protect you.

    And to Fraulein who seem to weighs people’s word according to their origins,i say: no matter what my ethnicity or my faith i don’t want to be “One who is merciful to the wicked to ultimately be cruel to the righteous.” Jewish Proverb
    The mistakes of our forefathers do not justify today’s errs and injustices!

  • Mark, I do not weigh anybody’s words based on the respective person’s origin, but the conflicting information you’ve provided about yourself to validate points makes me think that either you’re a person with conflicting personalities or that your idea of honesty and self-concept are somewhat distorted. Either option doesn’t add to your credibility.

    Your use of the English language tells me that you’re not native to it, which – unless you were raised in some sort of an isolated community – would outrule your claim of being a native of the United States.

  • Mark claimed to be Jewish in other places, not just here.

    Mark, you’re not just ignorant. What’s worse is your repeated use of pro-Palestinian canards to promote your views. The bullshit about Jewish Nazis and Jewish racism reveals much more about you than you know. Read the Hamas charter if you want to get a good view of racism and hatred up close. Then, I suggest you compare it to Israel’s Declaration of Independence. Go ahead, compare these two founding documents and then come back and tell us how poor Hamas had no choice but to do what they did.

    Ignorant idiot.

  • Hi Mark,
    Good question ” how do you keep the over 1.2 billion Muslims ‘in check’?” I always believed in education. Plus what I am trying to do in my not so sophisticated way, involved in discussion with opposite opinions. Sometimes it’s very difficult, I like the argumments supported by facts. Many religions including Judaism and Christianity went through a violent periods in the past. But the people who claimed to be jews or christians who were violent, not the dogma. In Islam, the dogma is violent and is accepted literaly by large percentage of muslem population.
    You support the rumor that Israel really founded Hamas and then it got out of hand. Well I also read that Jews were responsible for WW1, WW2, American slavery, Freemason, Communism, Capitalism, killing Jesus, 9/11 and I can go more. Do you also believe that?

    I will answer the paragraph about Hamas by statistics suplied by UNWR.
    Population of Gaza
    1949 240000
    1967 280000 Israel took it over
    2006 1450000 Israel left and Hamas took over
    2009 1480000
    Women (mothers)have children when they feel safe and society (government)is socialy and economically supportive. The Hamas has monies to pay for death (7000 euros for ‘martyr’ but no for living.)Israel would not and should not negotiate Hamas, they are not even terrorists, just basic criminal thugs. They are not only ready to kill jews at every opportunity, but they are also killing arab population of Gaza.

  • Where is Mark? I really want to know if where he is from, and if he is really Jewish. I’m also interested in his answer on what Stan R. asked, about Jews being behind everything from WW1 to 9/11. Reading his comments it seems like the answer will be “yes” to everything. Is his IP from Bangladesh as well?

  • Haha…yes, Mark from Paris. Interesting Youtube channel. Isn’t it great? Even with the anonymous nature of the internet, it doesnt take much looking around to see exactly who people really are.
    Another thing I noticed on his page is the Star of David with the swastika in the middle (as the icons for his two subscribers). Seems like first they succesfuly kidnap our terminology by equating Zionism with racism and genocide. Now they want to steal our symbols by inserting swastikas in the middle of the Magen David. Both channels are explicitly anti-semitic (not just anti-Israel), filled with Nasralahh, Finkelstein, Jews did 9/11,Israeli lobby, Rabbis against Israel and of course the Protocols.

  • Fraulein:
    You say:”…but the conflicting information you’ve provided about yourself to validate points”
    Nothing i said about me was meant as an argument to validate any of my opinions. And the only thing i said basically is that 2 wrongs don’t make a right no matter who, no matter where, no matter how.Hamas evilness was no justification for the IDF crimes!
    Then, you question my command of the English language to suggest that i’m not a native of the US. What does does being a native of the US has to do in the debate at hand? Is Arnold Schwartzeneger a native of the US (Governor of CA born in Austria)? is John Negroponte a native of the US (Director of National Intelligence born in the UK)? Is Mel Martinez a native of the US (US Representative bron in Cuba)?
    Being a native of the US or not is totally irrelevant for the debate. SO why again do you try to figure out my origin, my faith, my native language? Will i have less credence if i’m a goy from New Papua Guinea who worships ‘mamacombo’?

    The MIddle:
    Once again, you’re hate or dislike of Hamas, no matter how evil Hamas might be, doesn’t justify your racism or hatred of the Arabs and Muslims. And keep calling me names as much as you please. I’m an ‘ignorant idiot’ and you’re a beautiful genius but the fact remains:
    “Violence in the voice is often only the death rattle of reason in the throat.”John Frederick Boyes.

    Stan R:
    You put words in my mouth i never uttered and you throw random arbitrary statistics without addressing my questions. Readjusting your argumentation to avoid answering my question is not the right way to hold an intelligent conversation.You’re trying to convince me that Hamas is bad when i already am. My point again,the one that most people here want to ignore, is that 2 wrongs don’t make a right. What Hamas does, doesn’t justify the IDF’s crimes. Just like Americans who were accused of being anti-patriotic after 9/11 when they questioned Bush’s policies, Jews on here are in denial and refuse any criticism of Israel’s Government policies accusing anyone who differs of treason or being from Paris or Bangladesh, like it were a crime!

    And if you’re not convinced, let me ask you one question: what was accomplished in Gaza? NOTHING! Just a tremendous horrible loss of life that you’d probably like to ignore and put your conscience at ease by arguing they were all Hamas!The fact remains that nothing valuable was accomplished, neither on a human stand point, nor on a military one. That’s not true. The IDF has indeed accomplished something: Hamas is even more popular in the West Bank now! And we have a far right leaning government in Israel. Two extremist parties in power on boith sides. Way to go to find a solution for that mess that is the MIddle East! Racism and hatred!

  • Mark, I’ve just tried to figure out whether you’re honest and a person worth engaging in a conversation with. You’re neither.

  • Mark, you ignorant moron, I have been posting on Jewlicious for years. If you can find one instance of hatred or racism towards Arabs or Muslims in my writings, you should head to Vegas because it would be your very lucky day. You know why? Because I’m neither a hater nor a bigot, unlike you.

    In fact, other than rabid anti-Semites like you, who outed himself as such with the false claim about dual citizenship “There are two main points i’d like to make on the ME issue, as an America citizen who doesn’t have dual citizenship, like so many of our fellow citizen Jews,” I’d say the only group I actually hate more are murderers who target civilians. You know, like your Hamas. I bet you haven’t yet looked up their charter and compared it to Israel’s Declaration of Independence, have you?

    It’s interesting that you would choose to accuse Israelis and Jews of hatred, racism and blame them for the violence in the Middle East. Your comment does not apply to the vast majority of Jews or Israelis. If you want to claim that the war in Gaza is result of hate, then you obviously have decided to ignore the meaning of an entity like Hamas in Gaza holding an entire section of Israel hostage to their bombardments for years. That’s right, people like you turn reality on its head. One group targets civilians of a different group for years, following the ideological precepts of their movement (this includes the period of your vaunted cease fire), and when the other side finally responds, pigs such as you have the gall to blame the side that hasn’t been attacking for years and which has not and does not target civilians. This leaves us with two possible conclusions about you, either you’re a deceitful hateful liar or a deceitful ignorant idiot. Which is it?

  • Hi Mark,
    You are under attack from all sides, I would not be upset just sharpen your mind. No question, you try to defend the actions of Hamas and in your mind you equalize them with Arab population of Gaza. I can’t talk for other people here but I have nothing about people but Hamas is a different story. You use “Hamas wrong doings” against “Israel crimes”. I very strongly disagree and the “random” statistics support me. If Israel was committing “crimes” against Gazans the population would not increase so drastically during the “occupation” and being stagnant during the Hamas “wrong doings”. I believe that Hamas is the one who is committing crimes not only against Israel but also Gaza.
    There are many parts to your response above with different rheoretical questions to answer together. I do not believe in violence just for sake of violence. End result and mandate of Israel millitary action should have been a community which is interested to better itself socially and economically. Bottom line the Hamas and the tribal religious leadership would have to go.

  • Hi Stan:
    First thank you for keeping the conversation with me still civilized. I’ll leave ‘themiddle’, in the middle of his anger and ranting.
    “The middle ground is where we need to stand our ground and if we’re dragged to either the right or the left by the other side, we should resist mightily”! To paraphrase ‘themiddle’.But he then decides to call me a “fucking ignorant”, “and anti-semite”. Indeed it’s not easy even for you ‘themiddle’ to stand on the middle ground!

    Now Stan, i read your response and i’m asking you: could we please put aside as a given that Hamas is bad, criminal, and certainly not the answer for the Palestinians nor the Israelis? So tell me what in my argumentation led you to believe that i’d defend Hamas, let alone love them?
    What i said is that if my enemy was putting a total embargo on me to starve me to death (and for them Jews are the enemy, and Israel did put a total embargo on basic commodities on Gazans), i would do my best to retaliate. The same way any human being would, regardless of their beliefs, their ethincity…etc. I don’t agree with their rhetoric or action.But their reaction against the embargo is justified and legitimate as human beings.

    What i’m saying is you can’t expect any people to be starved to death the way we tried to starve them, and expect them to remain submissive. Passivity and submission is what led to the Holocaust for crying out loud. It’s also the world community passivity in Kosovo that led to the genocide of Muslim Bosnians. So you can blame Hamas for a lot of things indeed, you can blame Muslims for a lot of other things too if you please,but not for defending their right to fuel and food even if they’re your enemy. Either you’re in touch with your humanity and sense of human dignity, and are able to comprehend this simple concept,or your not. And to understand this concept one not need to love or accept Hamas!

    But you seem bent on refusing Palestinians the rights to human dignity because in your eyes they’re your enemies.And that’s the part that saddens me. By denying the other one’s own humanity, right to food and decent minimum living conditions, you hereby allow yourself to treat him like a subhuman.The ones that died during the operation are just numbers of collateral damage. I mean the word says it. It’s so cold and impersonal. In your eyes Muslims are not humans and they’re a danger to humanity.It is exactly the same rhetoric the same discourse employed by Nazis against Jews, word for word! Can you realize that?!

    I’d say that the real tragedy beside the one people are living in Gaza and elsewhere is when a Jew is able and willing to use the same mental pattern the Nazis did, to justify and legitimize his own crime on the pretext that the other one is the enemy.

  • Hi Mark,
    We have a different idea about economic situation in Gaza. First moneys coming in.
    UNWR budget for 2008/2009 1.21 billions dollars
    Israel supplies electricity, gas, telephone service , medical supplies. It’s truth Hamas supposed to pay for it but they don’t. I am sure you read or heard outcry “big bad Israel cut electricity to Gaza”. While GDP went down from $1060 per person to $110 per person. The GDP purchasing power went up to 5 billions US $.

    The welfare works. They are 5 times economically better launching rackets, to lie and cry “poor Muslims” then working. Guilable people like you (sorry, you are) are helping them to stagnate, hate (the leaders need population to hate bad Jews to extract the monies) and also digging a hole for you. Once you stop giving they kill you because you don’t have use for you.

    What I suggest? Finish them! I know it sound bloodthirsty but do you know a better way? The Hamas leadership should have been cought, prosecuted and finished in way that rest of the religious theocrats would know what to expect.

    To ween the Gazans from welfare is really more difficult task. Look what happened in Africa. We in the west are too soft harted. Israel under the ex-Russian Lieberman maybe will have a chance. Or maybe to force Arab countries to financialy support Gaza to tune 5 bil per year. They will teach their “brothers” very fast how to work! Maybe then rackets start to land on Arab land and Gazans will reminisce about Israel good old times?

  • Excuse me Stan, what do you mean by “finish them?” Finish who?

    Mark, of course you’d rather ignore the pointed question about whether you’re a liar or an idiot, but congratulations on making yet another Nazi comparison. Coming from you and your Youtube subscribers, that’s rich.

  • Hi Middle,

    The Hamas leadership. The Palestinian Arab people in Gaza have to be first freed from leadership who keeps them dependant financially on hate. As the website “” clearly shown they became dependant on “welfare”. It’s not about land or Independence. The leaders are not really interested in that. They would loose power and finances and they would have to solve huge socio-economic problem. Look up how much Arafat personally stole. He was not personally interested in independent Arab Palestinian state, economically as a independent unit with present education level and welfare bound population it can’t survive without Israel or welfare at present time. Intelligent Palestinians here in West know that. That’s the reason they usually advocate one country “secular democratic” solution even if it is called Israel. But Israelis are not stupid. I believe you can not solve it with bleeding hart (I am one of them) attitude. I believe also contrary to Mark statements about “bad Israelis” they are also softies. Look at the population growth in Gaza between 1967 and 2006 when they were “occupied”. It will take some one like Lieberman (on Israeli side) or I heard PM of West Bank Fayed is a though cookie, to solve it.

  • No, what’s rich themiddle is you trying to act outraged at Stan’s suggestion to ‘finish them’ off!
    Thanks Stan for finally taking your mask off and revealing your true colors and your monstrosity!That’s it: Let’s “finish them”.
    And yes indeed it ‘sounds bloodthirsty’! But don’t you worry now. You’re not the only one!
    Because of people like Lieberman and Stan!

    Yesterday it was European socialist Jews trying to convince Jews who had been the Holy Land for centuries of the righteousness of their doctrine and philosophy and telling them how to do things. And today it’s an other one from Russia, a night club bouncer of all, fresh off the plane, trying to tell us how to do things there and who is a true Jew and who isn’t!
    THAT’S THE TRAGEDY! “Justice, justice you shall pursue”…”For the work of righteousness shall be peace….”

    After 60 years of existence have you ever wondered what we got from Zionism? Today we have no peace in Israel, and over 60% of the world Jewish population live outside Israel! And statistics show that global anti-semitism is on a fast rise! What an accomplishment! Zionism is not Judaism. No matter what some people would like me to believe. And too often those two are closely associated if not interchangeably used.

  • I didn’t act outraged. I asked for clarification and it was given. “The Hamas leadership” is what he said.

    Of course, this makes your entire follow up yet another piece of your deceitful, hateful lying or idiotic ignorance. At this point I’m leaning towards the former tempered by the latter.

    Of course, accusations of genocide are not amusing, they’re sickening, but that has been your intention here all along. He says that Hamas leaders should be destroyed, and you scream genocide and then give yet another flawed history lesson about European Jews.

    Those early Zionists, Socialist and not, helped found this great country, Israel. What it has achieved in 60 years is nothing short of incredible considering their constraints. I think that if it weren’t for people like you supporting the murderous intentions of groups like Hamas and Fatah, there would be a greater likelihood for peace in Israel. There’s also nothing wrong with 60% of the world’s Jewish population living outside of Israel. Israel couldn’t hold or support them all even if it wanted to. There are Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. living in many countries, why do Jews only have to live in one?

    And yes, global antisemitism is on the rise and you’re an example of it. I suspect you’d be antisemitic whether Israel existed or not. It’s people such as you who try to paint Zionism and Judaism as one, as you did above. The rest of us aren’t too confused about it. One is a religion and one is a national political movement derived from the history of that religion and influenced by its heritage. When people use them interchangeably because it helps them to express hatred for Jews, they are the ones committing the wrong. You do get that, right Mark? The TRAGEDY is that people like you who hate Jews exist. That’s the TRAGEDY, Mark. That’s the sad reality of our world where good people like us have to live with the knowledge that shits like you exist.

  • Exactly opposite my friend. Who is the monster is you! You who is supporting slow bleeding of “innocent” mis-informed Arab people in Gaza, while their “leaders” are hiding in reinforced bunkers and stuffing their pockets with millions of dollars of aid money. Maybe you are their mouthpiece, by your articulation of your points, you seem educated. By carefully stepping over facts supplied to you and grabbing minor mis-type or misquotation and going at all out attack, you are not a naive well meaning man, but one of them. You are probably laughing all the way to bank. Poor Gazans with friends like you, who needs an enemy. You are willing to fight to the end with other people blood.

  • I’ll say one last thing to ‘Jews’ like you Stan and themiddle:

    All said and done,I notice that you both are totally incapable of seeing even the slightest flaw in the current government in Israel and its policies, and can’t stomach any criticism.It obviously never occurred to you smart alecks that i could be some Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jew from Neturei Karta who doesn’t believe that the State of Israel should exist because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law!? To you, i would still be anti-semite i guess. Just like that racist Lieberman you decide who is Jewish and who isn’t according to your political views and philosophy and not theology.So be it fellows.

    It’s probably easier for you to tag me as a Jew hater rather than question your positions or political philosophies.Even though you’d love to get rid of Palestinians, ship them off to Amman or maybe drown them in the sea like Ehud Olmert once suggested when he was mayor of Jerusalem, they are there to remain and they are growing in numbers,wether you like it or not.Time is not working in favor of the State of Israel, neither does the Jewish lobby in Washington if they only knew?!
    And Jews lived at peace with Palestinian Christians and Muslims side by side, until some arrogant socialist European Jews came to impose their political views on the region.It’s a fact, it’s History. Like the State of Israel is also a name created out of the UN hallways after 1948!There were Jewish City States scattered over the region, but never A State of Israel. Wether you like it or not, it’s History. Jacques Ellul once said:”What else can history teach us? Only the vanity of believing we can impose our theories on history.”!

    So here you have it as it pleases you: I’m a Jew hater, I’m an anti-semite, part of a global conspiracy to eradicate the Jewish faith! You’re happy?! Now go give your contribution to AIPAC and let them order our foreign policies and Israel’s, from the comfort of their glittering offices in Washington, convinced that it’s the good thing to do for Jews around the world.

    But the reality is that after so much work, so much sacrifices, so much money, so much lobbying, anti-semitism is on the rise globally, and the long term survival of your Israel never so uncertain (hence the 60% of world Jews living outside Israel remember?) I know people from other faiths all over the world live also abroad but not at a rate of 60%.This is the biggest failure of your Zionist policies and philosophy, if you only knew!?

    Your strategy is failing but you’d rather burry your head in the sand call me names, rather than face historical realities and adjust accordingly.
    But again, don’t take my words for granted, they’re the words of a Jew hater, an anti-semite!

    “Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived.”Abraham Lincoln
    “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” Salvor Hardin
    Two other Jew Hater i guess!

    The bad, bad Mark,to the Oh so good themiddle!

  • Mark, that really was your last comment here. Without any evidence whatsoever, you came into our site and accused us of hatred, racism, genocide, dual loyalty, etc. I dismissed you as an idiot, but I should have taken a stronger stance from the beginning because your anti-Semitism is disgusting beyond belief. I gave you a platform when I should have cut you off immediately. My bad for trying to respect ck’s free speech ideas.

    My latest post speaks about the type of anti-Semitism you’ve displayed here. As Irwin Cotler suggests, it’s time to do something about it. If you post again on Jewlicious, I’ll erase your comments.

    Good bye, you little ignorant shit.

  • This post is not to Mark but rather what he represents. In the movies they used portrait his character as a smiling, listening to you with emphaty, then by the wave of hand sending you to gas chamber, with no regret.

    I don’t think he hates us, in his eyes we don’t exist as human beings.

    We have history to learn from, unfortunately it cost us 6 millions of lives!

  • Another week, another university. Mine is next. Next week is anti-Israel week on campus. I’ve posted a copy of the email I received from my union on my blog. They have the support of the Womyn’s Centre and the TA union, which is disgusting.

  • Mark, you sound like one of those “I don’t hate Jews, I just hate what Jews do” type anti-Semites, who thinks he’s not an anti-Semite because he owns a Che shirt, listens to Rage Against the Machine and supports affirmative action, and therefore cannot fucking possibly be a racist.

    First, it isn’t fair to label Obama as a socialist. Second, yes I realize that Israel was founded by socialists. If you read about Israeli history, you may learn about the internal struggle between social Zionism and revisionist Zionism.

    Never mind that, though. Both Israel and Palestine are socialist societies. Nazi Germany was a socialist society, and so was the USSR. A special bond exists between Jews, or at least, those who believe in Zionism (which is pretty central to the modern Jewish identity). Because of this, “Jews” are a distinctive group, and as a distinctive group, they are necessarily at odds with national socialist movements like the Nazis or the Palestinians, who believe in their own superiority, and fueled by historical resentment, would like to destroy “the Jews”; and international socialists, like the USSR, Cuba, stupid rich white kids who think they’re communist revolutionaries, etc… who see Jews as “rootless cosmopolitans” who fail to assimilate and also in many respects represent the archetype of “capitalist evil” by way of the millionaire/banker stereotype.

    These stupid activists represent a bit of both, but thanks to the alignment of Israel with the West and the Arab states with the Soviet bloc, socialists have taken to hating Israel full time since Begin came to power. It’s the left-wing now, people like you, who are the primary generators of modern anti-Semitism.

  • Mark, first of all, try to learn to spell my screenname. If you choose to use the actual German spelling, then get that one right, too. Multilingualism is not determined by how many people lick your anus.

    That said, I put your repetitive comments but one into moderation as they were technically just spamming the comment section. They were off-topic regarding the respective posts and if of anything, they were just reflective of your poor manners and thinly veiled racism. The blog you linked to and tried to validate your views with is run by a person that has got no credentials even among left-wing Jews and anti-Zionists such as Neturei Karta (you might love those guys actually; they deny the existence of the state of Israel, but they could give you or your Tikun Olam friend a run for your money in matters of Judaism) and only attracts a tiny following, which compares rather unfavourably to the tens of thousands that read Jewlicious.

    If you must know, my home is a five-floor house with an extensive garden.

    BTW, since you’re so opposed to Jews and Israel, you might want to consider stopping to use inventions made by Jews and Israelis such as:
    – the ban on kin liability,
    – the quotation mark (developed based on a Talmudic ban on quoting the Torah without indicating by a symbol it was a quotation),
    – the concept that the earth is not a flat disk and contains more inhabited continents than previously known (Isaac Solomon B. Shahula, 1281),
    – sandwiches (credited to Hillel, born in 60 BCE),
    – jeans (Levi Straus, 1873),
    – lipstick [which I’m sure you use] (Maurice Levy, 1915),
    – ballpoint pens (Lazlo Biro, 1938),
    – instant photography (Edwin Herbert Land, 1947),
    – holography (Denias Gabor, 1948),
    – LP records (Peter Carl Goldmark, 1948),
    – TV remote controls (Robert Adler, 1950),
    – defibrillators and cardiac pacemakers (Paul M. Zoll, 1952),
    – videotapes (Charles Ginsburg, 1950s),
    – lasers (Gordon Gould, 1958),
    – genetic engineering (Stanley N. Cohen, 1973),

    A large share of medical innovations were also brought about by Jews, so I kindly suggest that in case of sickness, you let yourself be treated by those undoubtedly many skilled physicians your neo-Nazi following includes.

    Israeli contributions include the mobile phone technology (dveloped in Israel on behalf of Motorola) and Intel’s Centrino technology just to name a few more recent examples.

  • Hi froylein,
    why are you wasting your time with him? The guy is not a anti-semite, he is a “jew” baiter. More agitated you become more excited he becomes. He is probably a lonely guy siting at front of PC, you guys are the only excitement in his/her life!

  • Ibn Verga, no worries, he’ll disappear sooner than later. He needs an audience that cherishes him, and he won’t find that audience on here. In the meantime, it doesn’t hurt to show how much we despise people like him.

  • The accussations of anti-semitism are false. No one said any of those anti-semitic things listed in the article. As you can see those chants are not heard in the video. They were hyped up by media and concoted to appear as some anti-semitic event, which it never was.

  • Actually, you can’t see what was said in the video because for some odd reason the video has been removed from Youtube. What I recall, however, is that Jesse Zimmerman began and led a chant against Zionists – something where he yelled about Zionists being racists.

    In interviews with members of Hillel, they state that on the way to the Hillel office they were called dirty Jews and other abhorrent language.

    Now, you may wish to say that since you don’t have these nasty comments on tape, they aren’t provable. Fine, I’ll accept that. However, the context of what Zimmerman was leading as followed by this mob that was blocking the room where these students were cowering in fear clarifies exactly what this was.

    Let’s go over the story:

    The students hiding in the Hillel office included Jews and non-Jews. They were all members of a group called Drop YFS which was focused on removing the York Student Federation from office because they felt the YFS completely mismanaged the CUPE strike by supporting CUPE to the detriment of the York student body. It so happened that many of the organizers of Drop YFS were Jews, some of whom belonged to Hillel. They had been planning these protests since December of 2008. The CUPE strike began in November and the YFS’s support was already in place.

    Then, at the end of December, Israel attacked Gaza. On January 21, the YFS condemned Israel for the Gaza offensive, making no mention of Hamas and its actions. In other words, this happened after Drop YFS began its campaign.

    But the YFS soon changed the subject of the impeachment drive and began blaming the DROP YFS campaign on pro-Israel interests that were opposed to their vote on Gaza. There is only one way to view this: the YFS lied to gain favor and avoid impeachment.

    On the day that Drop YFS held the press conference to announce their feat of gaining the 5000 votes needed to impeach the standing YFS council, the room was closed because it could only hold 30 people legally and after 40 people the hosts – the leaders of Drop YFS – were ordered by police to stop letting people in.

    It was then that Krisna Saravanamuttu stood outside the room and led a large group of supporters through accusatory chants, supposedly for being excluded from the press conference.

    Did he accuse the non-Jews of Drop YFS for this exclusion? Nope.

    Did he blame the police which prevented the organizers of the news conference from letting more people into the room? Nope.

    He, a member of the YFS, blamed Hillel and Hasbara, two Jewish campus groups, along with campus Zionists, for trying to bring the YFS down because of the Gaza vote.

    Then he and the others around him disrupted the news conference, created a very uncomfortable barrier for the students seeking to leave the room and who went to the Hillel office to huddle – including, reportedly, members of the mob gathered around Krisna calling some of the Drop YFS members nasty anti-Semitic things – and went on to shout about Zionists being racists and down with racism outside the Hillel office.

    Since there was no racism here and since the members of Drop YFS came from different parts of the university and included non-Jews and people of color, and since the campaign began in December before the YFS Gaza vote, it is very difficult to read what happened here and conclude that this was anything but an anti-Semitic incident. It may have been cynical in its nature and meant to buttress the standing of the YFS, but the targeting of Jewish groups with unfounded accusations is anti-Semitism.

    I got the above from reading articles, seeing the available clips and coming to some conclusions myself. I also read Krisna’s response to the reprimand and fine he received from York and it doesn’t jibe with what we see in the video I post below.

    If you have other evidence, bring it on. I’m open minded.

  • Here is Krisna:





    Take a look at 1:20 where Krisna and Zimmerman walk around leading the chants and then see Krisna blame the Jewish groups.

  • Here is the “Racists off campus” chant.

    Now why on earth would they even be talking about racists, Jesse Z.? Where was there any racism here and why direct it at Jewish groups?

  • Here is Krisna after being reprimanded by York:

    “Several formal complaints were made to the University about students making racist comments on campus, yet the University did nothing. I decided to stand up against racism and I think it’s absurd that I was fined by the University for saying “racists off campus,” said Saravanamuttu. “When racist incidents happened on campus and nothing was done about it students took a stand, and for that we were punished.”

    Now tell me how this statement squares with what he says on the video where he accuses Jewish groups of trying to knock off the YFS because of the Gaza vote. I don’t see any connection between his statements. In fact, his recent statement stands in stark contrast with his video statement of Feb 11.

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