Kudos to Itay Paz and his Affilicon crew. That was one well-oiled (well-coffeed?) machine of a conference. My favorite thing (seriously, I’m sentimental this way): A charging station for laptops / Blackberries, complete with orange t-shirt clad babysitter. I felt like I was dropping my kid off in the play room at the mall.

Charlie Kalech, Harlan Kilstein, and Ran Aroussi on Crackberry, Affilicon '09

During the Drill: Charlie Kalech, Harlan Kilstein, and Ran Aroussi on Crackberry, Affilicon

What is Affilicon? Find out here in time for next year. In a nutshell: A two-day seminar  / networking-intensive expo with the goal of teaching Internet marketers and affiliates (and copywriters!!) how to sell mostly intangible stuff to lots of people you’ll never lay eyes on and make money on it.

Where do I sign up? Apparently, not on my own RSS feed, which lacks nearly every element required to make people click and “commit”. Who knew my lovely, highly labor intensive homepage was an “opt in  / landing page?” (Thanks, Andrea Yager.)

I was told by copywriting guru and marketing mutineer Dr. Harlan Kilstein that I could continue to be a starving artist and fish for minnows, or get some balls, drop the pretense, and fish for bass. That kill(stein)ed me.

Here are eight other things I learned yesterday at Affillicon ’09 (Twitter: #affilicon09):

 1. “While we try to build a better world we need to be prepared against evil forces.” – pink flyer handed out at the entrance….Great way to market the Defense Exercise. (I didn’t even hear the siren downstairs, but I’m all prepared now. I think.)

2. Lots of (if not most) marketers need copywriters, but only half of them know it, even though they often barely speak English. This is a redux of my Israeli road sign / restaurant menu pet peeve. An English Bagrut in 10th grade, and everybody’s William Safire.

Listen up guys: Writing – writing WELL – is a profession. How is it that a country full of Jews forgot this? At LEAST get someone to proofread for typos on your homepage. Would you let me write your backend code when I don’t know Drupal from Nepal and have never met a Joomla? No? And you shouldn’t be writing your own copy.

3. Never say something to a panel participant you don’t want repeated in front of hundreds of people, like: “So this woman asks me about monetizing her site and wonders about compromising her art, she goes, but there’s poetry on my page….chuckle, chuckle…” (Corollary: Never say anything to or about a writer / blogger you don’t want blogged.)

4. The people who run casino and gambling sites look EXACTLY like you think they will – Boy Band goes to Cyprus. There were even gamer girls in leatherette pants. You should come next year, ck.

5. I can drink a literally unfathomable amount of coffee and enjoy every sip.

6. Which brings me to this: To be a successful Internet marketer / optimizer / etc, you will most likely need to have ADD. Don’t worry, you can develop this later in life, too. Hey, I love your shoes! What was I saying? Oh yeah. Several of the people on the panel, when asked why they went into the field, cited a loathing of school and 9-5 jobs, and a desire to have an informal, flexible, pajama and café / club based life, while (wait for it) making lots of money….

7. …Which brings me to this: Sure are lots of people trying to be affiliate / Internet marketers. I had guessed that already on the basis of my Twitter following.  Any ideas from the esteemed gallery on how there is enough work out there for all these people, the more established of whom seem to all be earning well? (Or is that just marketing?)

8. Which in turn brings me to the best thing I learned all day, from the aforementioned Yager: ‘I am an expert because I say I am.’ This runs so counter to my training that I almost choke on it, but apparently, it’s how you do it. Look for me as a speaker at next year’s Affilicon, a copywriting rags to riches story. Really.

(That statement was the equivalent of a batter pointing over the wall, out of the park… And the crowd goes wild.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the author

sarke

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  • You know what’s really weird, Jazz? The “Peace.” greeting with the particularly striking (and incorrect) full-stop gives away your true identity.

  • “Miriam, the degree also makes people legally accountable; the average doctor does not fall asleep during surgery and if he does, he can be hold legally accountable.”

    Froylein – you totally miss Miriam’s point – your arguments are predicated on degrees = competency, and that competency should inspire trust. Degrees are a dime a dozen, all it shows is that the people who have them are willing to pay a lot of money from “experts” to learn a trade.

    That’s weird – when I phrase it like that, it kinda sounds like the same thing that Internet marketers do…

    If you an issue with Harlan, that’s fine – but gross over generalizations don’t fly (as Miriam’s excellent analogy shows). And you don’t need a degree to be held legally accountable – you’re legally accountable as a merchant operating in the exchange of goods and services. It doesn’t matter if I graduated 3rd grade if I own a restaurant and someone gets sick on my food.

    I’m not saying that Harlan is a “good guy” – I’m saying gross over generalizations just don’t work, and you’re depending on a lot of that in arguments.

    And if you’re frustrated with how Kilstein is communicating with you – learn how to communicate better. If you set a lame tone and start off with accusations, it’s not going to get better by simply repeating your complaints.

    You might have some very valid points, but if you express them in an overly-biased way, you’ll lose every time. Maybe Kilstein is a SLIME BAG. And maybe JFK WAS KILLED BY THE MAFIA. And I might have compelling evidence to prove both – but if I present that evidence in a way that detracts from my credibility (i.e., overly biased), everyone in the room will just be happy when I shut up and leave. And that seems to be the road you’re walking.

    Of course, this is the point where you roll your eyes and say “I’m just presenting the facts to these idiots, and they don’t get it, they’re getting hung up on trivial details.”

    Not really – again, the problem is that if you present facts in such a way that people perceive you are trying to make up their mind FOR them, then they will reject your idea even if it’s accurate, simply because nobody likes to be told what to think. You can chalk this up to “idiots not accepting the truth”, but the reality is that you’re responsible as the communicator to accurately present your ideas in a way that is palatable.

    You can’t blame people for rejecting food that tastes like crap even if it is “nutritious”.

    I take that back – you CAN, but you won’t be cooking for very long.

    Peace.

  • Okay, so I’m a little late jumping into this discussion, and I did not attend the conference nor did I really read all the comments. I completely agree about getting competent copywriters, but I why do people always forget to talk about visuals????? Come on people! Are photo editors a dying breed?

  • (groan)

    let it die!

    😀

    (disclaimer as posted above still stands.)

  • A quick update for the countless people who are undoubtedly still following this thread, despite its near-death:

    froylein and I have exchanged emails and she plans to be in touch the next time she visits Israel. Then we can try to meet for a tête-à-tête, a la CK and Harlan (lehavdil). Preferably without the arak though unless CK joins us.

    Zag, still waiting to hear from you…

  • OK Zag is out? Harlan’s Out? I’m Out, Too!*

    I think that froleyn or salty will be honored with the final post.


    *= This statement had not been assesed by the FDA, SBA or FCC for accuracy or completeness. This may change at any time.

  • Tom, the expression I have learnt is “to get / have one’s knickers in a knot”. I suppose some people’s underwear cannot be distinguished from their shoes. 😉

    Funny that we now also are collectively responsible for busting a relatively new phenomenon in Jewish eschatology. I hope at least Sheryl Crow will get paid her due royalties.

  • 1)

    Harlan is VERY VERY rude and VERY VERY VERY obnoxious. (he claims it to be a business strategy. whatever…)

    2)

    After a personal meeting (at which he seemed kinda nice for 240 minutes or so) with many of the posters in this tread, including Mr. Jewlicious, It seems that Harlan knows his stuff. (although there are other people/books in/on the planet that know much much much much much much much much much more.)

    Zag, based on all the comments above can we agree that the two are correct?

    If you can agree, then we can close this discussion.

    Or is it just a way to generate continued interest in this post that should have died after The Cafe Aroma Challenge?

    PS. Next time, PLEASE go to a place with a Mehadrin hechsher, so I can drink something!

    (I mean Cafe Rimon was DOWN THE BLOCK!! AAAAAH!!)

  • He actually did it. No profanity, no venom, just a snarky little lead-in to some measured distraction.

    That’s a strategy that would have worked better in the beginning.

    No further comments here.

  • Unlike others who don’t keep their promises, this is my last post on this blog post.

    It not only summarizes my views on this post, it summarizes my feelings on the over all state of affairs in Israel.

    My father-in-law loved to provoke questions at the Passover Seder. One year, he started to explain that there really wasn’t a Moshiach and that he would never come.

    It’s sad to say but from what you guys on Jewlicious have done in the past week, I’d have to say he was right.

    From being misquoted and attacked by people who never met me, here are the final thoughts I’d like to share.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2OeQvXe22Q

    From the words of Sheryl Crow:

    “Out Of Our Heads”

    If you feel you wanna fight me
    There’s a chain around your mind
    When something is holding you tightly
    What is real is so hard to find

    Losing babies to genocide
    Oh where’s the meaning in that plight
    Can’t you see that we’ve really bought into
    Every word they proclaimed and every lie, oh

    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts
    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts

    Someone’s feeding on your anger
    Someone’s been whispering in your ear
    You’ve seen his face before
    You’ve been played before
    These aren’t the words you need to hear

    Through the dawn of darkness blindly
    You have blood upon your hands
    All the world will treat you kindly
    But only the heart can understand, oh understand

    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts
    Children of Abraham lay down your fears, swallow your
    Tears and look to your heart

    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts
    Children of Abraham lay down your fears, swallow your
    Tears and look to your heart

    Every man is his own prophet
    Oh every prophet just a man
    I say all the women stand up, say yes to themselves
    Teach your children best you can

    Let every man bow to the best in himself
    We’re not killing any more
    We’re the wisest ones, everybody listen
    ‘Cause you can’t fight this feeling any more, oh anymore

    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts
    Children of Abraham lay down your fears, swallow your
    Tears and look to your heart

    If we could only get out of our heads, out of our heads
    And into our hearts
    Children of Abraham lay down your fears, swallow your
    Tears and look to your heart

  • Kilstein apologists, please.

    Some of you (not all) have become like a little “gang” on here with your for-profit propaganda, and it’s taken on much of the color of your leader. But none of this makes you or he right nor justifies his foul behavior or your endorsement of it.

    You can attempt to distract all you care to by attacking or being vile toward those who question him, but it only makes those questions stand out more.

    How can you possibly overlook the outright NASTY comments originally made by Kilstein? How can you simply forget that “your boy” is a loose cannon of the nastiest sort? Is decency irrelevant now, or is he somehow exempt? Does that not indicate something about him, or is it just like putting on a shirt?

    “It is a marketing strategy” is NOT a good or reasonable answer.

  • Wheee!

    If you say Harlan is nice you are obviously one of his tag alongs.

    its IMPOSSIBLE for someone to have never heard or met Harlan before actually go to a challenge posted here on jewlicious, and end up IMPRESSED.

    All the peositive people posting WASTED their time because they have MUCH better information in the LIBRARY.

    (nodding :lightbulb:)

  • Shimshon, Kilstein cared so much about what I had to say that he fell into repetitive insults. I do wonder why. If you chided Zag for his behaviour, fairness would require you’d chide Kilstein, too. But that’s your choice, and I respect it.

    Charlie, I’m not quite sure what you are getting at. I have learnt a lot in my life and still do learn a lot. Do you listen to any preacher on the street just because they are willing to teach?

    And to both of you, unlike others on here, I’ve never claimed to be an internet marketing expert. What I could claim for myself is that I’m a critical consumer. As a critical consumer, I’ve raised points and questions that were not answered in a decent manner by people several decades my senior. Basically, those points and questions were not answered at all. What I received were condescension, mockery and insults of a pretty bad variety. If you think this accounts for legitimate expert behaviour and sound, quality responses, your choice again.

  • Froylein,

    You seem to know it all. We mere mortals are open to learn from all who are willing to teach – yourself included.

    You can not even hear when someone is trying to help you.

  • Why on earth should I chide Harlan for his behavior here? I said I was against obnoxiousness in general. If I wanted to go further I would contact him directly since he, unlike some people, doesn’t hide who he is.

    Besides, I assure you he couldn’t care less what I think about him. He certainly doesn’t care about what you think either, a point you seem to have missed.

    Charlie’s right though. All you have to do is contact me and prove yourself and EVERYTHING WILL BE JUST FINE. Really.

    I will plan to forget about this whole childish incident immediately, but when you make it over here next and drop me a line. I plan to be pleasantly surprised. I am in Yerushalayim but I have a car and can travel. For tzniut I can bring along my wife. She is also a professional internet marketer who also liked what Harlan had to say both yesterday and at Affilicon so she obviously could use your help as well.

  • Shlomi, our regular readers are more interested in our other posts. As you see on top of the page on the right-hand side in the “recent comments” box, the last few comments left are listed in there, which serves as a great tool for readers to direct their attention at certain posts first or to see whether a response to a comment by them has been left recently (as many people do not like to check the box for automatic email updates). So repeated comments on here take away the attention from other posts that deserve our readers’ attention.

  • there’s so much to read… very funny conversation.

    and why nofollow? This Conversation could be a great backlink 🙂

  • Charlie, if anything, letting Kilstein go on his rants here has done damage to Jewlicious. Zag’s evaluation of Kilstein hardly compares to the obscenities Kilstein has generously thrown around on here.

    As a business person, you should also know to pick the person you associate with carefully. I, as a customer, would not buy products from anybody who is supportive of Kilstein after having read his rants above.

  • Okay, can this stop now?

    Seriously, it’s an idiotic conversation where everybody has made the same point several times.

    Save your poor fingers.

  • Shimshon, I’ll let it slide then that you chide Zag for his behaviour and not Kilstein for his, which goes beyond obnoxiousness. I hope you have been raised in a home that has taught you to see the difference between cheeky or provocative behaviour and spewing insults. So, my bit of advice still stands unless you aim to target at a marginal group of socially inept people. I’ll gladly meet you when I visit CK or my friends in Bnei Brak. Whatever is more convenient for you.

    Shlomi, read closely above. Thanks.

  • froylein writes: “a free word of advice: no swearing, no insults”

    Followed by Zag adding insult to injury:
    “Kilstein: you are simply a childish, immature, underdeveloped, hollow person. Notice I didn’t use the word “man,” because you do not adequately represent one.”

    You two should listen to each other objectively as the rest of us are. You come across ignorant and arrogant. Much more than the good Dr. who, like Shimshon, I never met or had any contact with before his current visit to the Holy Land.

    However I met benefited from four sessions with Kilstein. I am hardly a newbie and have been supporting a family and several employee’s families working on the Internet since the graphic Web was born. Shimshon followed me by a couple of years. And as I have mentioned, there are others whose respect has been earned though their professionalism, knowledge and contributions to the community who have posted that they too benefited from Kilstein’s visit.

    Are we all fools in your eyes?

    Have you verified facts?

    Have you considered the possibility that you are mistaken?

    I don’t think any of you realize the damage your unprofessional behavior has done to yourselves or Jewlicious (sorry Sara and CK).

    Do some damage control and contact Shimshon.

    Show him what you’ve got.

  • I guess a business man cannot do business unless he has a degree in business. 🙁 And i thought i can be someone some day.

    Tell it to some of the richest Israeli Building contractors.
    Maybe they’ll go to business school

  • Harlan – if you are still here I just wanted to thank you for everything I learned yesterday. It was very educational and helpful.

  • Zag,

    Just for the record, I never met with Harlan before yesterday and never had even one phone or email conversation with him before or since.

    I am not one of his buddies (but I’d like to be) and neither were 95% of the other people who attended yesterday’s events.

    Even though I have about zero respect for you based on your behavior here I would be happy to have my mind changed if you put your time where your mouth is and contact me via the info in my earlier post. CK met with Harlan…

    Almost no on

  • froylein (can I call you Froy?), forgive my lack of gratitude for your free advice (which was obviously for Harlan and not for me, but I will let that slide), but you are missing the point. Being obnoxious is a great marketing technique. Surely you know this from US talk radio. Being obnoxious –> listeners.

    That is not the only way to do marketing. That is not MY way of doing things, and in fact I don’t approve of obnoxiousness in general (my comments on this post notwithstanding), but it is easy to understand why some people take that approach, either on purpose or just because they have a “gift” for it. It works.

    So far, rating your advice vs. the advice that Harlan gave me:

    Harlan: 1
    froylein: 0

    Ok, really it is more like

    Harlan: 100
    froylein: 0

    So far I have NOT been overwhelmed with loudmouths taking me up on my generous offer to be their willing disciple. Do I need to post my contact info again?

  • Kilstein: you are simply a childish, immature, underdeveloped, hollow person. Notice I didn’t use the word “man,” because you do not adequately represent one.

    You have zero civility. So I will respond as appropriate.

    You can call me whatever you want, but you are a dog for calling froylein what you did. And furthermore, you are badgering SarKE with tweets to defend you here. SarKE wrote a good informative article, and you cannot hold her accountable for the comments that followed. And besides, after your tactless, hateful words here, why would she want to? You should show her and others more respect, but then that is a foreign word to you.

    I have no motivation nor need to ‘prove’ anything to you because I’m NOT the one getting in everyone’s face and saying “GIVE ME YOUR MONEY…I’M A SHMEXPERT!” *YOU* are doing that. That makes you fair game to ANYONE on the internet that you blow hot air at. You are like a little boy calling attention to himself. Well, you got the attention! Now, live with it.

    By the way, you also SUCK at NLP. Did you just read the “overview” chapter and stop there before calling yourself an expert? Your false, child-like reframing of what others say is so ridiculously obvious it is laughable.

    To reiterate about your little “me fest” the other evening: I sincerely mean no disrespect to any attendees, but in addition to your biased FRIENDS and associates, you attracted the VERY people who are most likely to unknowingly waste their time with you. (People who may not be aware of the vast resources and information out there that is superior to what you offer and is in fact FREE for the taking.) So naturally, until they realize you are a POSER, they will think you know ‘something’ as little as it truly is.

    Harlan Kilstein, you are simply a shallow opportunist, unworthy of attention, respect, and most importantly, compensation. It is absolutely preposterous for you to claim that by virtue of your coming here and dispensing vicious, nasty comments, it somehow builds up your “business.” When was the last time you heard of someone entering a store, being treated like a dog, and then when others hear about it, MORE PEOPLE want to come into that store? That’s total foolishness, and it proves that you are a second-rate “business” person. Word gets around, although word about you has been around for years. More people simply need to know about it.

  • Ok, Shimshon, a free word of advice: no swearing, no insults, no getting passive-aggressive, no twisting of truths, no showing of ignorance towards cultural achievements of others, no mockery, no lauding yourself online, and no condescending remarks will give a more positive image to any marketer who wishes to attract customers.

    And I’ve shared my services for free with hundreds of people from Monsey, Williamsburg, and Borough Park. I just don’t see the point in boasting about actually doing something for free if somebody is a true humanitarian. Just as little as I see the point in boasting about a donation unless one considers this an outstanding achievement.

    BTW, CK actually does have a known reputation for being awesome. Among hundreds of thousands of Jewish people. He has been referenced not only online but in various large circulation print publications.

  • Harlan, can you please tell the story of the monastery across from the school with the elmers glue? We need a good laughing break and that is one of my all time favorites you told. (man my memory can some times be scary) Oh, and Harlan was also my first computer teacher. Even though he was the principal he was the only one qualified enough back in 1988 to give the course. Line 10 “I love Harlan” Line 20 “Goto Line ten, line 3 run. Oh and who can forget Gennady’s I got power line.

  • Forgive me for interrupting you two, but I have a suggestion to make.

    Since Zag is an internet zillionaire and froylein owns some paintings, I would like to suggest that they too offer their services to 50 or 60 people for free like Harlan did. I for one will be happy to spend some of my valuable time hearing what they have to say just like I did with Harlan yesterday. As an internet marketer who has made in the high 6 figures online (cummulative, not annual — I wish) I think I can fairly report back to the Jewlicious crowd on the results.

    In fact, let’s throw this open a bit: I am willing to meet or speak on the phone with any of the loudmouths above (you know who you are) and listen to what you have to say. Any format is fine. Over gefilta fish or coffee, phone, skype, chat, whatever. If necessary you can wear a paper bag on your head to protect your precious anonymity — I couldn’t care less.

    CK, you too, even though we met already and you no longer seem to hate Harlan. (Apology?). You seem like the real deal and I would be happy to learn from you.

    And I am even willing to pay in advance for the privilege like I was with Harlan, provided you give some actual proof of expertise in SOMEthing. Acceptable proof would be a big house, a fancy office with lots of sychophantic employees, or a known reputation for being awesome (like Harlan). Big houses or cushy jobs provided by parents count, but in that case you have to bring your parents.

    Chagalls on the wall do NOT count. I really don’t like a lot of his stuff. Sorry.

    I make this offer NOT because, unlike froyline with her high-paying job, I merely started my own business with employees and therefore my time is obviously valueless, freeing me up to blow time listening to people like Harlan.

    Rather, I look at it as an opportunity to learn something new from people who might have something to teach me, even if they are closed-minded and obnoxious to others while hiding behind noms-de-plume and avatars. It’s an investment.

    For anyone that wants to take me up on the offer, please contact me in Twitter (@shimshon), Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=524570948) or LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/in/shimshonyoung)

  • I didn’t say you deceived people about your degrees. Maybe that’s what you understood, but not what I have said. I initially said there are people with more apt degrees out there to teach marketing seminars and later on evaluated / elaborated on the meaning of such degrees.

    Also, I didn’t claim to artwork, but to own artwork.

    So you’ve just stated two untruths in one comment. Should we consider this quintessential to the quality of your reputation?

    And please, take a brush-up class on English grammar.

  • CK is currently not online, but what are you trying to imply by the “digging a hole” and “burying” allusions?

    You’ve dug a hole by claiming I deceived people about my degrees. Congratulations.

    You got cuaght in a lie.

    And you buried your reputation. Though other than your claim to artwork, I’m not sure you ever had one.

  • I’ve said all people need to know about you is out there on Google. I’ve never claimed to be perfect. Labelling oneself an expert or a guru doesn’t constitute as a degree. You stated yourself above you’ve got an Ed.D.; that’s not a PhD or a DBA.

    CK is currently not online, but what are you trying to imply by the “digging a hole” and “burying” allusions?

  • Than CK should choose his blogger and friends more carefully.

    He seemed to me a smart fella, he has a hands off policy and is just sitting back watching you bury yourself.

    Time for your Gassy tag team partner to leap in and try and save you.

    Is it really that hard to say you were wrong about my degrees?

    Oh my, but then you wouldn’t be perfect.

    Whoops.

  • I’ve deleted Google? Wow.

    Seriously, Kilstein, reason has long since escaped your statements.

    I’m not hoping for CK to save my ass; I just gave you a heads-up that he doesn’t dislike his bloggers and good friends get insulted.

  • Right, sounds like you just got caught in a lie and you’re hoping CK will save your lying ass.

    Time to go crying to mommy.

    “Mommy, I got caught lying.”

    Don’t forget to get in the last word.

    Ring bell, Foylein posts.

    Pavlovian conditioning at it’s finest.

    Sit up. Roll over.

    so nobody can claim I’ve been deliberately selective.

    No one would ever accuse you of being selective.

    Just of deleting the facts.

    Laughing at you.

  • I’ll just let people google for themselves to find out more about you so nobody can claim I’ve been deliberately selective. Again, you might want to reconsider your tone as CK will likely not take kindly to that.

  • BTW, I’m not going to be buried with my artwork, but it has already been arranged that my various collections will be passed on to my heirs, and those may do with them as they please.

  • I can, but I’m not letting myself get bossed around by someone who is not capable of keeping up the social conventions of decent discourse. As I said, Google tells it all to everyone who needs to know, but maybe you wouldn’t like people to see what sites besides yours and those of your friends and affiliates reference you.

  • Like I said performing monkey, share the research about the degrees you found.

    You just got nailed in a blatant lie.

    Since you are online you can just cut and paste it.

    Can’t you?

  • Kilstein, in contrast to what you may believe, our readers are capable of googling your name for themselves and are also smart enough to scroll beyond the sites that only list information provided by you. I think it is time for you to reconsider the tone you use on here.

  • We looked into your degrees, Kilstein, to see whether your education held up to the credentials you gave yourself. They do not.

    Reading Miss Tie-Yourself-In-Little-Knotsies

    Share with us what you found about my degrees.

    Let us know the extensive research.

    Hmmmm.

    Okay my trained Hanuman monkey, time to perform.

  • It’s not in the spam folder. But a little Google search revealed to me that either side on the non-affilate information axis loads the other with praise. I should advise people to get a tad more independent information. Critiques of valuable guide books can be found in business magazines, which you find at newsstands or in larger libraries.

  • Oh, BTW, it spells “Chagall”. A little something akin to general education and decent manners couldn’t hurt if one wants to actually be successful in sales. We looked into your degrees, Kilstein, to see whether your education held up to the credentials you gave yourself. They do not.

    Sarke, I’m sorry your first big comment thread has turned into this, but I’d consider it irresponsible if we sold our readers short on this person and only just resorted to one-sided flattery of his persona and qualifications that, not only in my opinion, is ill-deserved.

  • For the record Zag:

    When Dr. Kilstein was asked about buying certain products, he specifically said newbies SHOULD NOT BUY HIS PRODUCT or other specific products he mentioned in response to the question.

    He instead referred people to another site (with no affiliate link) where they could pay (yes pay for knowledge and guidance) a low monthly fee (under $40) to test the waters with a step-by-step guide.

  • Miriam, the degree also makes people legally accountable; the average doctor does not fall asleep during surgery and if he does, he can be hold legally accountable. If you let yourself be treated by a not adequately qualified person, you’ll have a hard time pressing the same charges against that person than against a certified physician.

    English Literature, I’m sorry to say, is one of those tracks of studies you can pursue for private interests but will hardly ever lead to a career if you do not go on researching and lecturing at university or get into a publishing house as a proof-reader. Those limitations of profession choices are known from the start. That’s also why you cannot obtain a degree in English Literature over here but have got to study the more comprehensive Anglistics. (I would have loved to study archaeology, but the situation there is similar, so I’ll save that for retirement. 😉 )

    Back in the day, doing sales was easier with fewer restrictions, but with a rapidly growing global market with more and more legal implications, the online market in particular, it takes more than just some (alleged) experience and skills, and law and bookkeeping are just two aspects of that. Just scroll up a little to see that Kilstein didn’t know he will have to ask my permission to quote me and to have me agree on royalties, too, for making money of my lines. The do-ut-des principle of blogs on a quoting and requoting is based on mutually creating traffic. That appears not to be Kilstein’s intention but to make money out of my words. Were he an online marketing expert, he’d know that certain restrictions apply in such cases. Instead, he just behaves like a schoolyard bully. It’s a safe bet your grandfather would have found Kilstein despicable, too.

    I believe when you say you’re good at doing things in WP, but that you work in WP does not have the same legal implications as being an alleged expert instructor charging for the instruction. When you build a web presence, the customer will in the end see and evaluate a product and will pay or ask for additions accordingly. When you go about instructing people on business improvement, you do not just pay for the instruction but the hopefully eventual improvement. Now, if there is no guarantee for improvement, then it’s a bad deal unless you get a refund not only for the classes but for losses due to wrong investments and time wasted on something that didn’t show to be of profit. And if it’s only about the instruction, then the instruction is seriously overcharged, and customers should ask themselves what it is that will make them waste a considerable amount on something they could get for much cheaper or even for free by / from people way more qualified and, as we all could see above, of higher personal integrity.

  • Gassy Smelly Hot Air posts:

    Last comment, I promise:

    But he immediately returns after I pull his strings. I make him perform like my puppet.

    His excuse for returning?

    O.k., back by invitation only (thank you, froylein).

    Now, still hiding behind his Gas moniker, he tells us that together with Al Gore, he invented the Internet and is a multi-multi-multi-millionaire.

    Gee, look at the race of people who believe you.

    Not.

    And Froylein who couldn’t attend because she doesn’t live in Israel (but based on her rabid personality lives in a country where they tie their shoes in little Knotsies) didn’t need to come because she has Chagals hanging on her walls.

    Wow. There’s proof of your abilities right there.

    And like the bottom fishing slime buckets they both are, why bother checking the facts?

    Why bother to research my degrees? Where I went to school etc.

    Because, as the blind judge said, “My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.”

    Right.

    But for all the people reading this blog, again I thank you guys again.

    I credit not only two more sales at http://tactic7.com to you this morning… I also credit several book sales to you as well.

    Yes, the name of my book is “Steal This Book” and you know it’s worthless because Gassy and Tie-Her-Shoes-In-Knotsies say so.

    Forget the pages and pages of endorsements at the beginning from the people I have made millions and millions of dollars.

    No. Just take the word of these two bitter pathetic creatures who need – compulsively – to have the last word.

    Lying and smearing are the tools of their trade.

    Gassy will look at the millions he made while Froylein will be buried with her Chagals.

    I’m proud of both of you. You’ve made me even more money today.

    Keep going my bitches. I have you well trained.

    Too bad I never managed to train you not to pee in your own cages.

    Maybe next time.

  • Miriam,

    I’m sorry, but I can’t possibly believe you– people with their real names are 995% more likely to lie then those that hide behind screen names.

    also- those that didn’t attend last night are obviously in a better position to state if someone they met knows or does not know a given topic much better then someone that “has sources in monsey they didn’t need to call”….

  • Gee miriam, you should have been a lawyer. 🙂 I am a big fan of long discussions / free speech champion- plus I don’t want to overstep as a new jewly, but is there any way we can put this to rest? We are all very clever and can do this forever. We’ve all made our points at least twice. Any chance of latching on to a new obsession? Look! Over there! A soccer mom!u

  • Froylein, solid proof of what? As if degrees mean anything. The doctor who went to sleep during surgery on that little girl a few weeks ago and the girl died – that medical degree meant a heck of a lot.

    I have a degree in English Literature, but my professional services are WordPress and creating what we call a “web presence” (of course, it’s scary to say that here because I can just hear the outcries: What? WP expert? You know nothing! We know everything and are SO much smarter than you). I didn’t go to WP or “web presence” university. My grandfather was a fantastic businessman in the electronic devices industry. He never went to school: spent his youth selling cigarettes to German soldiers during WWI in Poland to support his mother and siblings.

    Please – university is a place we go so we can get degrees because people take degrees seriously and will then give us jobs. Today I couldn’t quote Shakespeare to you if my life depended on it, but ask me about WP and I have plenty to say.

  • Miriam, the analogy fails as lawyers have law degrees and must give solid proof of that before they are admitted into a Law Society and allowed to practice law in certain fields and in certain territories / courts.

    If a person that is not a physician professes to be an expert healer, then you have got an apt analogy to elaborate criticism on. Anybody with a bit of a string can pull out a baby tooth but you shouldn’t consult just anybody on fillings and anything more serious (even though you can buy DIY filling kits in the US).

  • So yesterday I met this lawyer, and since he’s a lawyer and I know that all lawyers are liars and cheats, I knew he was too. Plus, anyone can find contracts and legal advice online, so how can lawyers justify charging ridiculous legal fees? Actually, thanks to the internet we can be experts in everything, so there is no one in the world who is more knowledgeable than anyone else and therefore there is no one worth paying for their services and/or advice, i.e. I don’t need advice or guidance from anybody on any topic.

    Equation used for this logic:

    Law profession = buncha+shaysters

    therefore

    lawyer = shayster

    Plus

    Legal info = available+online

    therefore

    lawyer = as+knowledgeable+as+me+no+added+value

    therefore

    legal fees = highway+robbery

  • A school that would hire a principal that is not a teacher by trade is not a school any parent should send any kid to.

    As for you, Mr Kilstein, you’ve again given ample example of your poor manners, lack of self-control, your aggression and your basic lack of knowledge concerning the fields you profess to be an expert in when taken on by people that are not your willing following. I didn’t even have to get back to my contacts in Monsey to learn that much about you. You’ve put it here yourself for everybody to see. I hope you’re aware that your rants attempting at being condescending but failing in doing so due to a lack of verbosity and rhetorical skills reflect on your personality more than the many websites on which you reference yourself as an expert.

    A person desperate for a product is an easy customer, even if it’s just a crappy product.

    There are several reasons why I did not attend the event, including that I don’t live in Israel and have had sufficient proof of Kilstein’s despicable nature and non-expert state on here. Besides that, I pursue a job, one that pays. Just to give you an idea, and like Zag I don’t mean to brag, I’ve got original Chagalls hanging on my walls.

    And Kilstein, if you choose to quote me and make money of my words, my lawyer will contact you for an agreement on royalties.

  • O.k., back by invitation only (thank you, froylein).

    Kilstein, you humor yourself. Perhaps you did not receive enough love as a child, so you’re shouting how great you are to convince yourself?

    Well, allow me to share “a thing or two” about reality, Mr. egotistical, self-appointed “expert.”

    I dislike bragging, but since you seem to constantly put yourself in some special class, let me reposition YOU. I’ve been marketing online probably longer than you have. I’ve sold millions (that is no typo). Frankly, I don’t care if you believe me or not, and you probably won’t because of your superiority complex. My Google bills alone would make your jaw drop (and there’s obviously a LOT there to drop). I’ve worked 18 hour days for years, and I soak up marketing knowledge like a sponge. If it’s out there, I’ve probably seen it or at least know where to find it. I can spot a “poser” a mile away. And you’ve flashed ALL ACROSS my radar with a huge sign that says “POSER.”

    I (or froylein) didn’t need to show up to your little “me fest” to know your act. I can confidently say I’ve seen PLENTY of it…all across the internet. Your rambling self-promotion posts on various blogs, your stale commentaries, overblown sales pitches, and your dry, monotonous youtube videos that say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Oh, and yes, I’ve even seen a copy of your less than impressive “book” (portfolio). I know substance when I see it, and I haven’t seen it in you.

    To be fair, you’re not 100% full of kaki, but 76% is enough for me to suggest avoiding vultures like you like the plague.

    Bottom line: Kilstein, you are targeting NEWBIES and people with very limited knowledge. People who are tentative, and simply want (but don’t NEED) someone to hold their hand. This is your bread and butter. To some of those people, what you say may SEEM new or instructive, but only because THEY haven’t run across this information previously. However, there are FAR BETTER, more qualified teachers AND resources that cost nothing. Yes, nothing. It is simply a shame that YOU sometimes get to these people (and their wallets) before they find this much BETTER, more substantial information!

    Your completely “out of your mind” rant above should be sufficient PROOF that you are NOT a clear thinking professional in any meaning of the term. Nor are you a particularly nice person underneath it all.

    Everyone should ask: if Harlan Kilstein is such a genius (as HE thinks he is), where does HE get HIS knowledge? Answer: the same way YOU can: from books and resources on the internet. He is no “natural” marketer. He simply repeats what he’s learned, and does so with tremendous arrogance. You can bypass the arrogance and keep your money simply by looking elsewhere. You don’t need people like Harlan Kilstein to succeed.

    I’m NOT here to tear Harlan Kilstein down, even though he does a good job of perpetually asking for it. In all sincerity, I am speaking up because I am very tired of people selling my fellow humans a “bill of goods.” I am disturbed that Kilstein and his club comes here to extract money from good people, and it bothers me deeply. Please do not fall for this, good people.

  • just wondering.. if you didn’t show up, how do you keep claiming he is a fraud– when people actually get off their chairs and went out to check out the claims?

    (shrug)

    I gained.

    I now know about different twitter times and crowds. (yes, that is powerful information.)

    I now know about why scripts that personalize the names can mess you up. (i never would have realized that and thought I had a great idea, which Harlan shot dead.)

    I now know alot more about video marketing.

    and I met a lot of good people there, of all stripes.

    I’m thankful for this thread- otherwise I would not have known about the event last night or yesterday noon, I would not have been there…

    feel free to “disprove” whatever I said– it’s a free country (sort of….)

    🙂

  • Actually Kilstein was not a teacher (at least from what I know) he was the Principal of a yeshiva High School and I can assure you that he was the same back then as well. An arak drinking, Billy Joel listening, ruthless son of a gun. And I mean that in a good way. If he was just a “teacher” there was no way he would have been able to handle the likes of me and Nussbaum in a single year. In fact he was not able to handle me as I was always one step ahead. I really have some great stories, but the truth is this was 20 years ago and I respect his past to keep it in the past. To be honest I did not go because I needed the good doctors help (which he admitted to me) I went to really just see how he was and to bring some smiles back and memories of the man who was my biggest friend or opponent for more than 5% of my life. Just wish I had more time to talk with him and help him out a bit more… but then again, he couldn’t afford me 🙂

  • Dear Gassy Hot Air and Froylein Dirtbag.

    You too cowards didn’t have the balls, the moxie, and last but not least the integrity to show up.

    I’m not surprised.

    It’s your fake personality that you hide behind.

    And guess what.

    After dozens and dozens of people came and spent time with me, not one of them would agree with you.

    Nope.

    They all walked away with a tremendous amount of information.

    But not you two.

    Why?

    Because the two of you are a bunch of pathetic losers.

    It’s what you are.

    It’s who you are.

    And it’s who you will always be.

    And the more you write about this, the more true you know it to be.

    The people who had a shred of ethics came and listened.

    But like the pathetic little worms you are, you stayed behind chirping and sniping.

    It’s okay.

    After the two events, it’s just down the two of you forced to masturbate each others fragile egos.

    The two of you live your live as vampires appearing only to try and suck someone’s blood to nourish the bile you live for.

    It’s okay.

    Because without your puny efforts to stir up the shit, the event would not have been half as successful.

    People came from hours away to hear what I had to say because of the two of you.

    I couldn’t pay for the work you did on my behalf.

    Every time you open your mouth to put your foot in it, someone else bought my products.

    In fact, even though I didn’t sell anything at these events, my email lists grew by the hundreds because of the controversy you generated.

    Yes, I will sell these people something and enrich their lives (and my pockets) but the two of you will stay in the sewers of the Internet shouting match proving to each other how brilliant you are.

    Thank you for making my events a success.

    In an email I sent out yesterday about your behavior on the Jewlicious blog – I made $9000. YES!

    Would you please keep it up!

    I think I’m going to quote you guys in the next email. It will do even better.

    Froylein and Gassy, thanks again.

    🙂

    PS. Since I made so much money yesterday, I’m going to increase the money I give to the orphanage. Thanks again.

    Losers.

  • that’s right.

    anyone that “defends” kilstein after having met him after the jewlicious challenge and acctually “fell” for it after only four hours of time spent is obviously deranged.

    its obvious.. duh!

  • I went to the lunchtime event, paid 20 NIS for an orphan, and the orphan still hasn’t been delivered!

    I always thought all you internet marketing gurus were scammers, but now I have proof!

  • Hah, Zag, that’s hilarious. If anybody deserves an apology, then it’s our regular Jewlicious readers that have had to put up with this shtuss. Oh, and Zag, you’re of course welcome to keep reading and commenting on Jewlicious.

    And Shimshon, you’ve just shot yourself in the logical foot as Kilstein is not an economist by his education; you will see a doctor for medical aid but a former teacher for business? I wonder how Kilstein could ever become a teacher to begin with seeing the quality of his English and his choleric outbursts on here…

    As for intelligence, the fact alone that BizB tried to pose as two different people here, thinking it could not be determined, sufficiently speaks for the capacity of his brains.

  • Last comment, I promise:

    Interesting to see Kilstein’s personal friends parading in here promoting him so gratuitously. And of course reminding everyone how “good” and “generous” he is (be sure to check the links above and note his dark side, such as the blog comment where he asks an abuse victim “how does a dead baby taste”).

    For anyone ‘impressed’ with Kilstein, PLEASE, go visit some online marketing forums. It is NOT hard to find good FREE resources online. You’ll be amazed how quickly you’ll become far more of an expert than Kilstein ever will be. And it will cost you nothing–plus the people you encounter are most often GENUINELY nice and helpful with NO EXPECTATIONS in return.

    I don’t believe there is anything generous or giving about Kilstein. Everything is calculated to produce some result, even if it means DELAYED profits.

    He is simply playing “the game.”

    In closing, consider this public twitter exchange today between Kilstein and his promoter above (bizbooks):

    @drkilstein todays talks were amazing. I can rattle off 30+ amazing and valuable things that floored me. you are owed a BIG apology.

    @bizbooks Don’t hold your breathe waiting for an appology. All talk no brains on the blog.

    I disagree. There ARE brains on this blog. The fact that not everyone fell for Kilstein’s act proves it.

  • Dr. kilstein knows his business i have attended to his second meeting today and got overwhelmed of the amount of knowledge this man have to share.

    Dear jewlicious people, you were wrong when attacking him with no real reason.

  • One more comment on a side issue:

    It is silly to say that the Internet marketing experts shouldn’t be charging for their knowledge, since most/all of it is available for free online.

    It IS true that most (not all) of the information that the experts teach can be found free online, somewhere, if you can find it. It is also true that one can learn an awful lot about anatomy and medicine for free online. Or go to a good library and study up. That doesn’t make one a doctor, and when you want a brain surgeon you still go to a brain surgeon, not someone who read a lot of med books, and certainly not someone who DIDN’T read any books but is confident that he could find the information for free online.

    An expert is someone who has the information at his/her fingertips and usually has put it into practice. When those people can share their knowledge in a clear way that helps those that know less, their are worth their weight in gold and they deserve to get paid accordingly.

  • I attended from beginning to end both this morning’s not-mudfest and this evening’s gathering at the Inbal. While the morning’s event was a small group of about 10 Jewliciousers and professional web/marketers, the event tonight had about 50 people and went for 3+ hours.

    One by one, Harlan critiqued (destroyed) the sites of just about everyone at both events. Including 2 of mine, and I have 12+ years of experience and have made PLENTY of money online. I haven’t seen someone clobber so many people since those kung-fu movies I watched as a kid. Well, maybe since the last Rambo movie I watched.

    It is rare to see someone with SOOOO much knowledge in so many different fields related to internet marketing. There were some recurring themes in his advice but there was something new for just about everyone, no matter what they were coming with. On one occassion he said declined to answer a question based on the fact that he wasn’t and expert in the field in question, which only served to emphasize that he apparently IS an expert in all the other fields that he discussed.

    Both events were totally free. If someone wants to attribute Harlan’s blowing 5 hours of his very valuable time to help others as a nefarious plan, go for it. It will be worth a good laugh. (Hint: He seems to enjoy the notoriety as being good for business so don’t try to claim he did it to clear his name. In fact he probably things I am weeny for defending him.)

    For all the people that attacked Harlan for his being a non-expert, phony, trickster or worse, you owe him a huge apology. In fact, I think you owe us all an apology for your pathetic negativity and slander based on complete ignorance. You should be ashamed.

    I doubt any of those who attacked Harlan while hiding behind avatars and knicknames to protect their anonymity deigned attend either event. If they did, they certainly did not succeed in stumping him. But I am sure they would say they “didn’t learn anything”. Uh-huh.

    I am waiting to hear one apology from someone, anyone.

  • I was at both events today…

    Harlan was great.

    It was four hours of valuable free advice (didn’t see any arak, though).

    Harlan mentioned the title of today’s email to his list…

    Harlan Attacked In Jerusalem: Urgent

    It IS the truth… ain’t it? 🙂

  • Was gr8 to enjoy the civility of the face to face with every kind of Jew (tx rk for that formulation.) glad to meet those I’d never met and see those I’ve known since forever. I agree it was a cool forum. Have never had arak for breakfast before. Kilstein, Israel is good for you.

  • At the risk of spoiling my image as “the nice Jewish boy of Web design”: CK gets credit for helping me discover the two great tastes that go great together – Ice coffee and Arak mmmm.

    Kilstein went around and gave selflessly helping each person tweak their site from novice to those with more experience in the field. Granted, he did this with attitude but after all, we put him in the position of our mentor. He even consulted with CK asking his opinion on the design of several sites before offering his own and they always seemed to agree on the basic ways to optimize a site to increase conversions.

    It was a good serious group of professionals (Dr. Kilstein included) who pooled our knowledge to help each other.

    I’m looking forward to seeing this again tonight at the Inbal at 19:30 and look forward to such meet-ups in the future.

  • There wasn’t anything really to discuss. Krilstein was genial and pretty much agreed with all my critiques of the industry. The existence of self professed experts with limited knowledge and depth? Yup. The existence of shady operators? Yup. Most people don’t manage to take the time to effectively use what is taught to them? Yup. The importance of compelling content over mere keyword tweaking? Yup. The reality that making money on the Internet requires deep knowledge and hard work? Yup. The reality that most of the knowledge one could glean from events like Afilicon can easily be found online for free? Yup. So what could I say? Were people interested in these particular aspects of Krilstein’s knowledge? I dunno. But Krilstein stepped up, gave freely of his time and expertise freely and totally did not act like the devil incarnate.

    So I got to meet Sarke the new Jewlicious writer of this very post for the first time, met shiraabel and some of the other local Internet marketers etc. They all seemed very nice and so I didn’t assault anyone. Just had some Arak with Talya. Even Charlie had Arak! Arak shots in the morning is good.

    Sigh. I need to get into a fist fight and soon. Any takers? Double points if you’re a self described Internet marketing expert…

  • Good time had by all! Great to see you again @drkilstein and great to meet you David, Sam and everyone else! And thanks for the ride and the talk SARke

  • Droid, by all means, please keep on commenting. Kilstein has shown his venom and rage above and by avoiding points that were addressed, he showed that people hit the proverbial nail on the head.

    Middle, there are more people than Salty Droid out there stating the same. The story is public record.

  • Middle :: I can’t contest your point. It’s the clear downside of the anonymity. Also, my tone is unorthodox and highly venomous which tends to cause confusion. Perhaps revealing myself and taking a more professional tone would aid my cause. I don’t know.

    However, I’m not making “accusations” against these guys … I’m just pointing {boisterously} to their ON THE RECORD duplicity.

    I’m not asking anyone to believe me. Look it up. You think “Finger Healing” is a legit product? Are Kilstein’s comments on Failed Messiah {and elsewhere} within the bounds of decency? Was it acceptable for him to tell people {privately} that I’d published a lie about him murdering his child?

    I’m going to go with NO. On all counts.

    I won’t sully your thread with my comments anymore. It’s rude to fan flame wars on forums that don’t belong to you. Thanks again for letting me have my say.