Kudos to Itay Paz and his Affilicon crew. That was one well-oiled (well-coffeed?) machine of a conference. My favorite thing (seriously, I’m sentimental this way): A charging station for laptops / Blackberries, complete with orange t-shirt clad babysitter. I felt like I was dropping my kid off in the play room at the mall.

Charlie Kalech, Harlan Kilstein, and Ran Aroussi on Crackberry, Affilicon '09

During the Drill: Charlie Kalech, Harlan Kilstein, and Ran Aroussi on Crackberry, Affilicon

What is Affilicon? Find out here in time for next year. In a nutshell: A two-day seminar  / networking-intensive expo with the goal of teaching Internet marketers and affiliates (and copywriters!!) how to sell mostly intangible stuff to lots of people you’ll never lay eyes on and make money on it.

Where do I sign up? Apparently, not on my own RSS feed, which lacks nearly every element required to make people click and “commit”. Who knew my lovely, highly labor intensive homepage was an “opt in  / landing page?” (Thanks, Andrea Yager.)

I was told by copywriting guru and marketing mutineer Dr. Harlan Kilstein that I could continue to be a starving artist and fish for minnows, or get some balls, drop the pretense, and fish for bass. That kill(stein)ed me.

Here are eight other things I learned yesterday at Affillicon ’09 (Twitter: #affilicon09):

 1. “While we try to build a better world we need to be prepared against evil forces.” – pink flyer handed out at the entrance….Great way to market the Defense Exercise. (I didn’t even hear the siren downstairs, but I’m all prepared now. I think.)

2. Lots of (if not most) marketers need copywriters, but only half of them know it, even though they often barely speak English. This is a redux of my Israeli road sign / restaurant menu pet peeve. An English Bagrut in 10th grade, and everybody’s William Safire.

Listen up guys: Writing – writing WELL – is a profession. How is it that a country full of Jews forgot this? At LEAST get someone to proofread for typos on your homepage. Would you let me write your backend code when I don’t know Drupal from Nepal and have never met a Joomla? No? And you shouldn’t be writing your own copy.

3. Never say something to a panel participant you don’t want repeated in front of hundreds of people, like: “So this woman asks me about monetizing her site and wonders about compromising her art, she goes, but there’s poetry on my page….chuckle, chuckle…” (Corollary: Never say anything to or about a writer / blogger you don’t want blogged.)

4. The people who run casino and gambling sites look EXACTLY like you think they will – Boy Band goes to Cyprus. There were even gamer girls in leatherette pants. You should come next year, ck.

5. I can drink a literally unfathomable amount of coffee and enjoy every sip.

6. Which brings me to this: To be a successful Internet marketer / optimizer / etc, you will most likely need to have ADD. Don’t worry, you can develop this later in life, too. Hey, I love your shoes! What was I saying? Oh yeah. Several of the people on the panel, when asked why they went into the field, cited a loathing of school and 9-5 jobs, and a desire to have an informal, flexible, pajama and café / club based life, while (wait for it) making lots of money….

7. …Which brings me to this: Sure are lots of people trying to be affiliate / Internet marketers. I had guessed that already on the basis of my Twitter following.  Any ideas from the esteemed gallery on how there is enough work out there for all these people, the more established of whom seem to all be earning well? (Or is that just marketing?)

8. Which in turn brings me to the best thing I learned all day, from the aforementioned Yager: ‘I am an expert because I say I am.’ This runs so counter to my training that I almost choke on it, but apparently, it’s how you do it. Look for me as a speaker at next year’s Affilicon, a copywriting rags to riches story. Really.

(That statement was the equivalent of a batter pointing over the wall, out of the park… And the crowd goes wild.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the author

sarke

216 Comments

  • Fact: 97% of the participants at Affilicon in Israel are not going to earn back the price of their admission by the time the next Affilicon rolls around next year.

    I have no interest in gamer girls in leatherette anything.

    Dr. Harlan Kilstein and his ilk are the death of the Internet. What Kilstein will tell you, and this is a fact, is that CRAPPY content results in a higher click through rate on your Google ads. Optimize a page for some high profit search term and who gives a crap about the quality of the actual content? It’s all about getting stupid people to click on stupid ads for stupid crap that they don’t need. I’d rather live under a bridge and eat garbage than do that for a living. Hey! I hear selling heroin is also pretty profitable!

    Finally, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE note that these people encourage others to become self proclaimed experts. Bunch of greedy little fuckers who don’t actually know the first thing about the Internet. All the crap imparted upon you at Affilicon is one Google search algorithm tweak away from becoming completely useless.

    But thanks for the inside perspective sarke!

  • Very entertaining writeup!

    I can see where ck is coming from, but I think it’s a matter of certain professions suiting certain people. I think I’ve come to terms with the fact that I can never be the type of affiliate marketer that was promoted at the conference. I don’t know how people can promote and sell products that they’re not passionate about. And I’m not even talking about the “grey” areas of internet marketing where people sell lies. I definitely could not go there.

    But it does work for some people. I think they’re passionate about making the sale, or the challenge of getting people to buy on the web, and that’s what keeps them going, and as long as they’re not selling lies, gambling, porn, or other things that destroy society, I say good for them.

    As for Harlan: I had a nice shmooze with him at the end and he struck me as a guy who knows what he’s doing and can actually make a living from it, and he’s nice and entertaining too.

    In short: I had a great time at the conference! I learned new stuff, and talked to lots of fun people, which is the ikar at these things anyways.

  • Have you been chatting with TheMiddle? That’s like his stock patented response whenever I go on a tear! But you do know there was nothing personal there right? I just hate shit like Affilicon.

  • The problem is that all the big money is in “lies, gambling, porn, or other things that destroy society.” Why is a PhD world class shmexpert like Dr. Harlan Kilstein wasting his time at Affilicon imparting wisdom on n00bs when he can be at work making billions of dollars daily selling crap on the Internets? Is it because he’s a humanitarian? Or is it because he makes more money selling bullshit and crap to greedy or desperate or naive people willing to pony up, what $200+ to be sold a bill of goods? Greed is the new avodah zarah, Affilicon and it’s ilk are the new temples of Ba’al and self proclaimed SEO/Social Networking gurus are the priests selling people the false idols of happiness through easy money.

    Seriously. Just sell heroin to school children! talk about a sticky product and recurring revenues!

  • OK but the real question is: how are you and miriam getting your pics in the comment icon and how do i do it? I’d say closer to PT Barnum’s Circus or the Wizard’s Oz than Baal. There is the theory that those who wish to be deceived deserve to be. Not saying I subscribe to it…but the internet is no different than any other sucker trap. Remember Ripley’s believe it or not? My parents never let me go to the one in Ocean City. Ooof.

  • I disagree. Just because you can rip someone off doesn’t mean you should. People are rip-offable because they trust others. Ripping them off is playing off of their trust. Plus, scams can run from tiny to huge. Madoff ripped off a lot of smart, good people. I don’t think they deserved it, just because he succeeded.

    As for the picture…go to http://www.gravatar.com and upload a picture of yourself. Many blogs pull avatars of commenters from there, including this one.

  • tx miriam!

    and btw – i agree with you entirely. But the question of where business ends and where deception begins is at the crux of marketing in general, and the answers are not cut and dry. Not a new discussion, but never ceases to intrigue me.

  • The easiest people in the world to con are greedy people. Any good grifter knows that. Every good con plays on the victim’s desire for an easy gain. As for Madoff, shit, every one knows you have to diversify your investments. Madoff’s con did not withstand close scrutiny and those that got conned were stupid, or greedy, or both. OK, maybe some were merely naive.

  • SarKE – you asked for it – so here it goes.

    Why give kudos to someone who is promoting a conference that degrades and tosses away the very thing you make your money from? Sorry Miriam, but I went to the conference last year and I didn’t get a single word of wisdom that helped me build my blog. It’s a bunch of inflated egos on that stage and all they do is puff their chests and to show who has the biggest. I agree with CK wholeheartedly.

    With that said – I’d love to cover the conference next year for Jewlicious – I can guarantee you it would be an entertaining review…

    -s

  • Shira baby I will race you for the press pass. Run or swim? (I dont bike.)

    Im not sure I see it as a tossing away. I sense there is something to learn from everyone, and a wide middle ground between starving artist and soulless huckster. This is reminding me (not exactly the same but there are similarities) of when Jonathan Franzen dissed Oprah b/c she was too populist. These guys are trying to reach the Oprah crowd, and under. Maybe they can teach me how to reach them too. I wont lower my standards as far as my content; but if i can learn the tricks of the free giveaway or the importance of list building…What’s bad? Take the good, throw out the bad; i did it all thru hellish parochial school, I do it in conformist suburbia, and I can do it at Affilicon. But I see the moral point you make.

  • The thing is that in another court, they play at a different level, namely those players that pursue university degrees in “information management” and comparable subjects, which cover the required knowledge in IT, marketing / sales / economics, psychology / customer relations etc.

    The trick of the free give-away is never to email or write a letter for initial contact but to call and to demand to talk to the person “in charge”. Then stroke the ego of the person you’re talking to by positively emphasizing their role in the corporation, show genuine interest and sympathy for their load of responsibility. People don’t like being the recipients of generic begging / networking.

  • Sheesh. You want to know all that stuff Sarke? We’ll organize a free lecture where I will gather real experts who will impart that knowledge on you for free. Well, at least for a lot less than $800 or whatever those hucksters at Affilicon charge. Don’t toy with me. I WILL do it!

  • How about we go together and debate in next years post the pros and cons of such a conference?

    BTW – I only bike. Can’t swim and hate running. Mad for bikes though.

    -s

  • Shira – how bout we go together and present: why the rest of internet professionals dont like you and how you can give back to society to combat your bad image??

    I guess we should register as one person for a triathalon, then.

  • CK, why so serious ?

    I was on one of the panels so I guess i must be one of the greedy, blood-sucking, internet ruining, self proclaiming SOBs.

    All in all, i didn’t get the feeling that people are constantly pushing their stuff at the conference. Putting your name and the name of your company at the end of the presentation is not considered to be pushy.

    Were all the presentations worth the time and the money ? Definitely not. But i guess that happens on every conference. I guess that if you are coming to a conference to learn affiliate marketing, you are pretty much in for a disappointment. Networking and little nuggets of info is something im taking with me. Was it worth the money (not that i paid or anything) ? Time will tell…

  • CK –

    You asked “Why is a PhD world class shmexpert like Dr. Harlan Kilstein wasting his time at Affilicon imparting wisdom on n00bs when he can be at work making billions of dollars daily selling crap on the Internets?”

    Dr Kilstein had a launch going off as he was attending affilicon so he was “making billions of dollars daily selling crap on the Internets?” Not to mention the long-tail passive income he probably has in place.

    Don’t you get it? These are automated systems. Once they are set up they launch and relaunch and email people and process transactions without him having to be there.

    In a professional capacity, yes I found Dr. Kilstein to be generous and selfless, despite his own self-demotion and reputation. I know he gives away a lot of time and advice to others – and yes you can claim that he (like many marketers) give something away for free to entice, lure and sell. So are you going to stop going to Supersol because they send you coupons to lure you into their store?

    My personal encounters with him in a professional capacity have been pleasant, rewarding and I have learned tachlis knowledge that help me serve our clients better (I’m not an affiliate marketer, not going for the big win, but serving a niche client base with real value in Web design and promotion for almost 20 years).

    If something is good and of value, you want more of it and I, for one, started off skeptical of Dr Kilstein as a snake oil salesman but after attending two of his seminars at Affilicon, I found gems of real value in what he said and am looking forward to hearing him again in Jerusalem Monday night. I have no doubt that he will speak to everyone who attends with a genuine desire to help them succeed and deliver real value toward that end.

  • Wow – what a discussion to jump into! I attended the conference based on the rave reviews that I heard from last year’s attendees. I’m not interested in affiliate marketing programs for myself, though we use the “affiliate” concept in social media all the time – we ask people to connect us to each other, vote for things (like best blog, best story, etc) to win things – it’s similar concept. (That would have been an interesting analogy to have heard at the conference, btw.) I have to say that I felt like everyone was trying to teach me the best way to make quick money: buy and sell domain names, build links (“one presenter even said “this is a little black hat”…come on!)and since I’m in social media that just grated on me. Social media is about real connections and community – so really, it was only when I attended the social media panel (thanks, Miriam!) and one about video sharing (again, social media) panel that I didn’t feel like I was being sold a bag of tricks. So, what did I get out of it? I learned about SEO and the importance of links. And, as at any conference, reconnections and connections and great conversations. Worth it? Not for that cost of admission. Those are my two cents. And now, I’ll wait to be bombed by all the commenters to follow.

  • TBH, I hated Harlan’s presentation on Adwords. It came across as whining, complaining rant coming from someone that thought that the fact that he is paying Google money should be enough for his websites to be treated like they are quality when they are apparently not. First he complains that Google Guidelines are not specific or clear enough and when he gets a really long, detailed letter from Google, describing what is really wrong with his and similar sites, he complains that Google is dictating his business model. You can”t have it both ways. I didn’t like his style of presentation, i didn’t like the message he conveyed. Is the fact that he uses the word “moolah” supposed to get me to think of him as a current, young marketer ?

  • Dr. Harlan Kilstein and his ilk are the death of the Internet…. I’d rather live under a bridge and eat garbage than do that for a living. Hey! I hear selling heroin is also pretty profitable!

    I just love it when people who don’t know me, never met me, and don’t have a clue as to what I do post about me.

    My name is Harlan Kilstein and I flew to Israel to speak at Affilicon on my own dime. I paid for my flight, rent-a-car, hotel, etc. I was not paid to speak. I didn’t sell any products or services at the show.

    So why did I come?

    Because “baseball has been berry good to me.” I’ve done well in Internet marketing and believe anyone with the desire and mindset can succeed in succeeding on the Internet in a pretty short time.

    At Affilicon, dozens of people came to ask my advice. I spent hours talking, listening, and sharing with people for free.

    I didn’t come to network. I came to give.

    I’m an Internet marketing consultant and help people increase the amount of money they make on the Internet.

    I didn’t come to Israel with the idea of making money. Frankly, most folks here can’t afford my services.

    The good Lord has been very generous to me and I believe in giving back by sharing my knowledge.

    I’m not an affiliate marketer per-se but if I had to start all over again, that’s what I’d do.

    How long does it take to make money as an affiliate? Seriously, a couple of weeks.

    Can you make money overnight? It’s possible.

    But I’d rather build a serious business which takes time.

    So why don’t people succeed making money on line:

    1. They have no clue what they are doing.
    2. They have a terminal case of RCV (Reticular Canal Vision) and can’t pull their head out of their posterior long enough to see what’s going on around them.
    3. They didn’t get proper training or mentoring.
    4. They executed so poorly they lost money when they were counting on a quick score.

    I’ve trained hundreds of people to succeed on line.

    I know thousands of people making an honest living online.

    Here was the number one problem at Affilicon (and I told this to Itay Paz).

    At my first session, I asked how many people in the room make more than $100,000 a year online.

    No one raised their hand.

    Most people were near beginners and there were no sessions aimed at that market.

    So CK, ready for the challenge?

    Everyone is going to witness it right here.

    I’m going to be in Jerusalem for a few days. Bring a check made out to the GIOH Weingarten Orphanage for $100
    and I’ll give you a couple of hours and show you how to make money on line.

    At the end of the day, YOU DECIDE whether I’m a scammer and of that heroin pushing ilk.

    If you think I gave you value, mail the check to the orphanage.

    If you think I’m a bullshirt artist, tear up the check and let the poor orphans starve.

    So you have nothing to lose.

    Now in the states, I get around $1000 an hour for consulting. Here I’ll do it for free.

    Just respond here whether you accept my challenge. Bring a laptop, bring your buddies, whatever.

    But you have to agree to shut up and listen, not prove to me how smart you are.

    For the details of where to meet, (I’m seriously fond of the Coffee Beanery) contact me @drkilstein on Twitter.

    Now the ball’s in your court.

    Go on whining, or sit down and learn how to build a business.

    Your move.

    Peace.

    Harlan

  • Like Neyne I was also a panelist at Affilicon.

    Many of the companies and individuals at Affilicon market plain ole websites for real companies (summer camp websites, contact lens websites, wedding announcement websites, etc.) We don’t all sell clickbank ebooks using long sales pages. (I personally am better at buying ebooks than selling them – I started my business 6 years ago largely as a result of reading an Ebook I bought for $50.)

    Before dismissing the concept of learning about online marketing, it is worth noting that legitimate businesses need to understand basic SEO and PPC in order to do business online. It is ignorant to think that you can operate a business with an online component without understanding the ins and outs of online marketing.

    Lastly, In my experience, online marketers are unusually helpful to other people in the field – it is very common to share newly discovered information with colleagues even at competing companies. Knowledge is a currency – you bring your discoveries to the table and exchange them for those of your peers.

    A few years ago several Search Marketing companies mostly in the Jerusalem area actually set up an SEO Circle – monthly meetings at various locations during which each company presented a topic that they knew very well. In several cases the information presented was cutting edge. I have not seen this sharing of secrets in any other industry.

    To those who might characterize the search marketing industry based on your perception of a specific subset, I recommend a chill pill or a perhaps an ebook on how to produce and market chill pills.

    sam.

  • Along with not having ANY useful information {as CK so succinctly pointed out} many of these Internet Marketing “gurus” have shady and suspicious pasts.

    Please take a look at “Dr.” Kilstein {who DOESN’T have a PhD by the way} in action. http://bit.ly/qpl4T

    He’s not a nice man :: He’s not a spiritual man :: He’s not a loving man :: And he most certainly DOESN’T know anything about the Internet worth paying for.

    Thanks for letting me speak. >>bleep

    The Ball is in YOUR court Kilstein ::

  • My gag reflex kicks in nearly every time I see Harlan Kilstein claim to be doing anything for truly “humanitarian” purposes. How utterly ridiculous.

    His $100 challenge above? Seemingly nothing in it for him, right? No, he’s simply being slick Kilstein–and it would just be a standard investment. An investment as in the PURCHASING of trust, which he could simply exploit later to sell his shallow infoproducts to people who are insecure and vulnerable, or simply greedy.

    Harlan Kilstein is trying to divert skeptical attention from himself by posting rambling, say-nothing commentary here. But let’s not make it too easy for him to play that little game. Keep in mind, he’s really a bully at his core.

    Kilstein epitomizes all that is wrong with internet marketing and the so-called “gurus” who want your money but pretend to be “your best friend” in order to break down your buying resistance. None of them are really your “friend” of course. It’s all theater.

    Some people foolishly “buy into” Kilstein’s “act” because of his relentless posturing. But pull back that curtain, and the self-proclaimed “wizard” is actually just a shrunken little man who’s really pretty hideous when seen under normal lighting.

    Kilstein is simply a regurgitator, not an originator. He uses loudness and arrogance as a cover to distract from the reality that he is hardly an expert at anything, except at being abrasive and mean. And he’s supposed to be an “educated” and “enlightened” man? There’s something a little “off” there.

    The “Salty Droid’s” comment above linked to a very interesting post, which in turn provided some even more fascinating links about the REAL Harlan Kilstein. None of it is pretty. He’s got a history, and everyone should be fully aware of it before parting with their money or potentially, their own personal integrity.

    I wouldn’t wish this self-proclaimed “expert” on anybody.

  • OK Dr. Krilstein. I was pretty harsh but you came back and responded in a civil manner. Also you stuck around Jerusalem after your gig so you get props for that. Send an email to jewlicious at gmail dot com and I will take you up on your offer. Or call me at 054 673 5873. We’ll see what’s what…

  • I told him he could bring friends.

    You can come if he likes.

    In a coffee shop to be determined later.

    Must have Wifi.

    Peace.

    PS. You must have grown a pair of big ones since our talk to qualify.

    PPS. Stop fishing for minnows and start fishing for whales.

    PPPS. NHL third man in rule – third man in buys the coffee. ;-P

  • Wow, you can’t even go to sleep in this world of the web.

    Of course I have a few things to say:

    1. ck and Harlan, can I come too? I’m dying of curiosity to hear what you have to say.

    2. I’m with Sam and would have said what he did if he hadn’t: anyone dealing with online marketing of anything, whether it be a company, non-profit, book etc. must know about SEO and PPC if they want to get anywhere. I learned quite a few new things that I plan to implement for our clients, who are certainly not scammers.

    3. All in all I thought the conference had more pros than cons. The sessions that I attended (not enough, too busy talking) were informative, and the people I met were great. Oh, and the food was good too (I’m very shallow). I think that the conference showed that there’s a need for some kind of internet marketing conference in Israel, and so far this is the only one.

  • I enjoyed Affilicon, thought some presentations were good, others less so. Pretty normal for a convention.

    I’m in for the coffee shop showdown; just let us know the time & place. I plan to arrive fourth.

  • ck? time? place? you want harlan to urself or do we get to watch? as to third man rule…since i started ruckus, only fair i treat harlan and ck – liquid only (and dont go ordering a bottle of vintage, sneaky web person). andy and miriam – u start getting expensive…but the company much desired. if ck lets.
    re minnows and whales: my jury still out on which is which, and what criteria is for what makes a fish worth catching. Im still not convinced its all about money. Notoriety and influence and ability to change world still are currency in my eyes. In which case Kilstein V ck is a monster whale match, of differnt species.

  • Where? Where?

    I had a great time at Affilcon (I was also a panelist like Neyne and Sam) and I just want to point out that imho affiliates are marketers and they can choose to promote a product “they believe in” or any product that pays well. Most people came there to network and the learning outside was at least as important as the learning inside the conference halls.

    Anyway, I loved Harlan BECA– USE of his attitude and not despite of it. As he mentioned – he’s here to give: Most attendees can’t afford to hire him, so at least they get to here him speak.

    Harlan – YOU’RE THE MAN!

    SarKE – It was great to meet you. We’ll defiantly talk soon.

    Sam – always a joy!

    CK – have a coke and a smile and forgive me for being such a complete wanker…

  • no one needs to shut up. thats the beauty of this discussion and the Jews as a people. Play nice, Ran. even tho i just met you. Why? Because I said so. See – i learned smtg at Afilicon. 🙂

  • That’s nice… editing my comment… Really big of you!

    I thought that part of the “beauty of this discussion” is that everyone have a say.

  • Ron. I am a true humanitarian thus I will forgive you for being a wanker and telling me to shut the fuck up on a Web site I run. For the record, Ron’s actual last sentence was “CK – have a coke and a smile and shut the f’ up…” It’s not likely that Ron would have admitted to being a wanker and I was just having a bit of fun at his expense.

  • I actually wrote that last comment before I saw your response! Sorry Ran. Seriously, you can tell me to shut the fuck up any time you like without fear of having your comment edited. I was just having fun.

  • For the record, if ck learns how to make a lot of money from Jewlicious, The Middle is going on strike. In fact, if that happens, The Middle is going to attend Affilicon 2010.

  • Love the convo

    Sam/Miriam – the SEO roundtable is a different version of what we are trying to do at Jerusalem Web Professionals. We have had SEO Panels, Intimate gatherings with Barry Schwartz, etc. The difference (I think) is we do not want to make it an exclusive club but open it up so newbies can tag along. Some get lost when we have more specifically or technical conversations, but they don’t mind.

    I’d be happy to participate in a regular professional meeting, but I don’t like the idea of creating an old boys club. As long as it is open to anybody, count me in. Let me know what you think.

    CK (despite your great initials) This is a great example of why one should not listen to Lashon HaRa. The feathers you are spreading will be difficult to gather so please think before you attack someone or every publish something negative.

    I’ll be benefiting from hearing Harlan again on Monday night but I’d be interested in a coffee shop meet-up as well. CK – just be warned, don’t expect Harlan to be a nice warm and fuzzy guy (especially to you) but that does not mean he won’t want to offer you genuine help. Try to separate personal and professional.

    Harlan and all – Great case study for why “Listening” in Social Media is so important and how to turn it around and take part in the conversation!

    Ran – If you are not a Twitter expert, why did I pay to hear you speak? That is a summary of my disappointment in Affilicon.

    Harlan, Monte Cahn and Gary Beal were worth hearing. Other speakers spoke down to the audience so I and my colleagues were disappointed. Maybe Miriam is on track where we need an Internet Marketers convention or Sam’s Roundtable idea is a better venue, but Affilicon would be better if it offered more for those of us who know the business already and want to (always) learn more from our colleagues.

    Next year, I’ll be happy to speak on Twitter, Social Media, SEO, PPC, Web design or a slew of other topics to help raise the level.

    Whether we are minnows or whales, gurus or skeptics, thank you all for the conversation

  • I don’t think i spoke down to the audience. I actually got a pretty good response to my behavioral metrics in Google algo presentation.

    Can you give examples of speakers speaking down to the audience ?

  • Branko, your presentation was terrific … next time you need to get a full slot, not just a spot on a panel. You’re one of the few speakers who brings an analytic approach to your presentations, showing the results of experimentation.

    I agree broadly with Charlie, although I may have enjoyed different speakers (I particularly enjoyed the one on link building – although there was little in there that was really new to me, it was thorough, clear, and got me thinking). The only two real disappointments for me were

    – the session on list building, and
    – the opening session on Twitter.

    Particularly the latter; after asking how many in the audience use Twitter, and having 80% or so put their hands up, it’s pretty pointless to give an hour or so on “What is Twitter?”

    As for the cost of the coffee shop showdown; I can swing a cup of coffee. I’ll have to check with my accountant before committing to a croissant.

  • Wow this is getting a little out of hand…

    If we’re going to have an audience then we can’t really do it at Coffee Bean. There’s a place that’s a 5 minute walk from coffee bean, near the Jaffa Gate with Wifi, a nice setting and ample room and quiet for whatever y’all have in mind. Many of you are already familiar with Bulghourji. Let me know what you think. Now for some response…

    Ran: I’m glad or I hope that you realize that everything was done in good fun. I’m not mad at Affilicon. I never went. I’m dismayed however by what I perceive to be an entire culture based on the notion that the Internet is a great way to make easy money. I’m annoyed at self proclaimed experts who are experts because they say they’re experts. I’m just annoyed.

    That having been said, please don’t read anything I’ve said as saying that the entire industry without reservation is full of shysters and hucksters! I’m willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, hence my willingness to take time off of my busy schedule to entertain Dr. Kilstein’s proposal.

    I’ll even go one further and suggest a 20 shekel donation of everyone that attends and that no matter what happens, the funds be disbursed to the orphans.

    Because it is about the children after all…

  • I am an affiliate marketer who makes a full time living online. I might not make $100,000 a year (yet), but I do pretty well for the number of hours I work (I’m a stay-at-home mom).

    I don’t lie, and I won’t sell a product that I think is bad in any way.

    In fact, I like to design my websites so that they help people.

    And because I help people, they buy from my sites.

    And after they buy, many of them will email me and say thank you.

  • People like Harlan are successful in part BECA– USE of their outspoken personality (Which is why I personally think Harlan does it to model Dan Kennedy.)

    While I thought that The Google Speech was a bit, uh, just a way of using a “hot” topic to bring the crowd around to what Harlan wanted them to consider- which was unrelated to Google at all if you think about it-

    I think that he has alot of knowledge to impart (Salescopy, NLP, Internet Marketing, Product Launches)…

    and I think that this publicity, while (and I don’t know if) it’s causing Harlan, and by extension, Itay, any grief, it’s time to realize that the people have spoken- Harlan answered with a fair, public offer- and there really is no reason to turn this thread into a little kid crybaby waah-fest.

    I don’t agree with everything Harlan said on stage. but, I do plan to attend on monday night, because I do believe he has alot to impart.

    And what part of Harlan’s presentation taught me the most? the $100 bill at the end taught me something…

    but then again, I don’t do PPC and was at that presentation just for the fact that I wanted to hear him speak…

    I’m looking forward to wherever the match is. Do you think we need security, or will Harlan just do some mind control on all of us?

  • I have to say that I’m totally lost on this one. Will someone please call/email me or post a comment that explains all of the above in non-web2.0 terms… i.e. johnny wants to sell choclate and uses the unternet to do it, and bobby showshim how, but freddy doesn’t like the way bobby does it – that sort of thing. thanks! :o)

  • As Rob Lowe said all those years ago in St. Elmo’s…This is totally outta hand. Cool. all thats missing from this thread now is a definitive when / where.

    this was a tru freedom of speech exercise and so much fun 4 me personally. respect to everyone.

  • What a bunch of whiners.

    Perhaps there is just a touch of jealously in all the comments above? Just maybe?

    The people that I spoke to that went to Affilicon (my wife went so I got to watch the kids for 2 days) who actually know what they are talking about and make serious money on the Internet got a lot out of the event. What did they hear that CK et al missed? Or what did they *listen* to that the others closed their ears to?

    Making money online is really easy. Making big money online is not easy, but those that make some see that it is possible, and probably much easier than doing it by building an offline business. Or by working 9-5 for 40 years.

    But it does take work, training, and practice, lots of practice. In the end, the person who succeeds will be the one who finds a way to give more value than s/he charges for to as many people as possible. Money is just the way of keeping score on how many people you have helped.

    Got that?

    If you want to stop whining and plunk down some money to get REAL information from a guy who (I was told by a reliable source) was head-and-shoulders above just about all the other presenters at Affilicon, come hear Harlan Kilstein speak in Yerushalayim on June 8 at 6PM:

    http://jwp.j-town.co.il/harlan.php

    You get what you pay for, though this time you will probably get a lot more than that.

    Oh, and I am an honest Internet Marketer who has been making money online since ’98. Never quite enough to drop my consulting business, but enough to know that it is real, and how to avoid the garbage too.

  • Shimshon. I’ll ignore the “whiners” comment and the accusation of jealousy in the interests of civil dialog. Of course there is money to be made on the Internet. There’s also money to be made selling cheap crap imported from China or wire hangers or waste disposal etc.

    But it does take work, training, and practice, lots of practice. In the end, the person who succeeds will be the one who finds a way to give more value than s/he charges for to as many people as possible. Money is just the way of keeping score on how many people you have helped.

    So buy something for x and sell it for x+y. Awesome. Ordinarily one would have to go to Wharton or Yale for such insightful advice! And we’re not making money really, we’re helping people! Mamish Gevalt!

    Listen Shimshon, I’m not interested in a pissing match with you or with Dr. Krilstein. I hope your event is a great success and people learn lots and lots of new and interesting things. I have some fundamental issues with the industry but I am open minded and am happy to give the good Doctor every chance possible – especially since he was civil and suggested a tzedaka related activity.

    I hope that you and everyone else here that commented did not take my concerns as a personal attack on their integrity and credibility.

  • Hey CK,

    Since I’m new to the blog, I had no idea I was talking to Mr. Important. Looking forward to our meeting Sunday.
    11:30 work? Need time for yoga.

    Come with what you’ve done in the past that didn’t work.

    Any domains, urls, ppc campaigns, web sites etc.

    The “challenge” at the OK corral was to work with you. If people want to watch that’s fine. I love to perform. However, the main thing is to fulfill my challenge.

    Like an idiot, I didn’t bring a check with me but just for showing up, I’ll give a thousand bucks to the orphanage. I’ve visited it and was impressed.

    Could you post the address of the place? I haven’t been in JM in five years.

    Also, while I have your attention. I’m at the Inbal. Can anyone recommend a good power yoga place for me? We’ve got to establish priorities.

    Peace Love and they better have good coffee.

  • OK Harlan. Let’s kinda be clear here. I don’t need anyone’s help with anything Internet related. I build Web sites, create digital content and do online PR for clients and I’ve been doing it since Mosaic was in beta. Jewlicious doesn’t sell anything except for a few t-shirts. We have some banner ads to pay for our server etc. and we run a pretty successful Festival every year in Long Beach as well as other related events. Our traffic here is good.

    So here’s the scoop as it were. I believe in creating content that’s relevant to a specific constituency, be it readers of Jewlicious or buyers of a client’s products or services. I don’t create content based on the dictates of an algorithm. I firmly believe that a Web page will organically get the traffic it deserves and while we do a certain measure of search engine optimization, it’s really very basic. We focus on community building, sharing and long term viability.

    I think it’s clear you and I have fundamental differences in uh… philosophy and the only thing I am into is hearing you out. For the kids. I think we can organize a meeting where whoever wants to attend has to make at least a 20 NIS donation to the orphanage and we’ll listen to what you have to say. I feel compelled to do this despite being advised by some folks not to because of the very generous $1000 donation you have offered to make.

    So if you’re into it, I’ll pick you up at the lobby of the inbal at 11 am on Sunday and we’ll head to this venue I was talking about by Jaffa gate. They have wifi and coffee and it’s kinda pretty. And anyone who wants to join can – or we can restrict it to whatever # makes sense. We can then waz poetic about our different philosophies. Or something.

  • Salty,

    It’s amazing just how fat a perverted loser like you will go for some thrills. I looked though your site well and did not find a shred of truth.

    and its nice to see how you delete any comments that are not alter egos of yourself.

  • Oh there IS truth … and there is more coming. Believe me Kilstein … there is MORE coming.

    I’ve never deleted a comment. Nor will I ever.

  • CK I don’t understand:

    This was what I wrote:

    I’m going to be in Jerusalem for a few days. Bring a check made out to the GIOH Weingarten Orphanage for $100
    and I’ll give you a couple of hours and show you how to make money on line.

    At the end of the day, YOU DECIDE whether I’m a scammer and of that heroin pushing ilk.

    If you think I gave you value, mail the check to the orphanage.

    If you think I’m a bullshirt artist, tear up the check and let the poor orphans starve.

    So you have nothing to lose.

    and you responded:

    OK Dr. Krilstein. I was pretty harsh but you came back and responded in a civil manner. Also you stuck around Jerusalem after your gig so you get props for that. Send an email to jewlicious at gmail dot com and I will take you up on your offer.

    Now all of a sudden, it’s become a 3 ring circus but you are really and online marketing wizard and we have fundamental differences.

    Honestly, I’ve visited your blog maybe once before. I didn’t even know it was your blog and you were Mr. Jewlicious.

    I have no clue as to what your marketing philosophy is and other than pulling smoke out of thin air, you have no clue as to mine.

    To my knowledge, correct me if I’m wrong, we’ve never met or spoken. I’m not aware if you’ve ever attended any of my seminars or purchased any of my products.

    So how exactly do you know my marketing philosophy so well? Remote viewing?

    And I you don’t need help, why did you agree to my offer to come and help you? Why didn’t you immediately respond with “I’m superman in disguise and I don’t need your help.”

    So what exactly is the point of Sunday? Meet with a couple of dozen people with different skill levels and interests and dazzle them?

    What’s the agenda – other than coffee.

    And what disappoints me most of all is the fact that not one person has responded with a cool place to do yoga.

    Sheesh.

    CK- DM me on Twitter.

    Peace.

  • I’m so surprised that Dr. KnowNothing isn’t going to show up to a debate with a rational human being.

    It’s a good idea to back out Harlan :: He would have totally HUMILIATED you and your BS in under 10 minutes. And I say that *confidentially* without ever having met either one of you.

    Liars must also be cowards by necessity.

  • Alright now, this is getting ridiculous.

    Commenters that have never been around before pop up and praise someone to the skies in strikingly similar style. That someone, an alleged online marketing whiz, has never heard of the legendary CK – who has more than once been portrayed by renowned newspapers / magazines -, (condescendingly) offering “help” to one of the most influential people of J-web as even CK’s critics and competitors admit; showing off with a proposed donation; after not having rejected summaries of his marketing philosophies above as incorrect now claiming CK had no clue as to what those philosophies were about; back-paddling on the offer to “meet” and aiming to remove the conversation from the public square after CK has shown to be independent-minded and not easily impressed and a critic not related to Jewlicious in any way has refused to have himself shut up by bogus supporters of that someone; now displaying patterns of passive-aggressive discourse.

    And as for the yoga place: this is Jewlicious, the world’s leading Jewish blog, not the Jerusalem Yellow Pages.

  • Froylein :: I’m not sure why you are apologizing, but I decline to accept it. My comments are almost always deleted immediately … so I’m thrilled at the rare chance to participate in an actual open forum.

    Kudos to you Jewlicious Jews!

  • Harlan Kilstein’s “target market” is people who just got their first computer and want to make money on “the internets.” In other words, NEWBIES with CASH. So it’s no surprise he would be PETRIFIED when unexpectedly faced with an intellectual WHO CAN SEE THROUGH HIS B.S.! (That would be you, CK.)

    Of course Kilstein is NOT going to meet with CK. Not ever. (Actually, I was surprised CK would waste his time with Kilstein, but given the charitable element, that was pretty noble.)

    Salty Droid is completely right. Kilstein is a know-nothing and NOT a nice person. And there is certainly nothing “redeeming” or endearing about Kilstein’s “attitude.” It would be hard to accept his foul personality even IF he were some sort of actual expert, which he is not. He is, as they say, just another “poser.”

  • Droid, I apologised as had I read your comment before, mine would probably have addressed yours in some way, but you’re definitely right; CK can see through that kind of business; as he emphasized above, we believe in original content on Jewlicious (and give credit where credit is due). We owe much of our independence to not having to rely on making cash of this site, and I suppose that is part of our real success.

    Zag, I guess greed paired with the naivety in believing that big bucks could still be made on the internet in little time and without any proper qualifications lure people that must be pretty clueless about the matter in question. Also, people apparently still are easily impressed; it’s the same kind of people that will argue that the $40 plastic food container bought at a friend’s food container-part actually keeps their food fresh so much longer than an average food container from a supermarket. People don’t like admitting they have been fooled by reasoning themselves into the “quality” of the product they got. Women appear particularly susceptible to this, houswives even more so as that kind of “business advice” gives them the positive feedback and encouragement they crave and often do not get for doing housework, raising kids etc. They wish to measure up, but they certainly wouldn’t want to be considered less savvy than their male or working female peers. The tricks are cheap. As an insurance sales agent I know told me, you can sell anything to a housewife above thirty with a little flattery and giving off the impression of an expert authority. His particular trick is to ask women how old they are, and if he gets the, “You don’t ask a lady that response”, will proceed to “guess” their age (about ten to fifteen years younger than he actually thinks they are), and he claims at that point the deal is sealed. His success in sales proves him right.

  • Froylein,

    I have to respond to the Tupperware comment – I was at book club and a gf brought in her 25 year old tupperware which had just broke to another GF who sells Tupperware. It was replaced for free. That’s why you get Tupperware. It lasts, you can replace one piece if you lose it, and they will replace it literally forever. (And no, I don’t sell it – I have bought it though, their products are great)

    -s

  • Shira, the initial amount you pay for a TW product would cover the expenses for a lifetime-supply of a generic brand plastic food container of that kind; that’s why they can do the “generous” return & replacement policy. The majority of buyers won’t return their items, and that is their winning margin.

    But thanks for proving me right.

    (The “selling through a friend” is TW’s key to success as it’s more difficult to reject a friend – particularly if that friend can get a whoppin’ plastic colander out of it. As for myself, I invest in real quality and get WMF stainless steel.)

  • Froylein, you have a good point.

    That is: the false expectation alters the perception and ultimate reality. Because of Kilstein’s arrogance and posturing, people somehow think that there is more there than there actually is. It is an illusion of anticipation.

    There is also a reason that Kilstein and his ilk tend to associate together: they “build each other up” to external people. It is all very circular. This works to systematically overwhelm the doubters.

    The result is: few laymen (or women) have the courage to argue with a vocal, formalized group of “marketing experts” in an “organized” setting. “It must just be me” the victims rationalize, when in reality they are getting little or nothing of value. Most simply walk away quietly and poorer, and the new victims come along without any warning from the old victims. This is the sad reality of most internet marketing “guru” operations. It just goes on and on.

    Kilstein professes to be an expert in many things, but the fact is, he is merely a dabbler. Anyone can be a dabbler. Anyone could be Harlan Kilstein, if they had his same level of arrogance. I would not recommend it though.

    The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of useful marketing and business information is readily available on the internet, entirely for free. There is seldom need to pay for it. Instead of paying huge money to so-called “marketing experts,” people would be better off learning to more effectively search the internet. Then, all this vast knowledge will be available to them at no cost.

  • Well, fireworks were never planned. I don’t know what we’re going to do on Monday. Kilstein and I are having Shabbat dinner together tonight. Maybe we’ll discuss it and maybe we won’t. We’ll see. We both have fundamentally different perspectives and are not likely to change each others minds. The sort of dynamic described by zag and froylein is also what I see. I wonder how many seasoned Internet professionals would be willing to pony up $800 or $250 or whatever in order to get the sort of advice being sold at these marketing events. In my experience the answer is very few and for obvious reasons.

    But I do have to give the guy props for stepping up to the plate. Most would have been content to merely resort to polemics and name calling and ultimately, that’s not so good for the Jews. Stay tuned I guess…

  • I still don’t know how everyone is such an expert on my marketing philosophy.

    It wasn’t on my agenda to even change someone’s mind.

    I thought it was Sunday – not Monday. Although it doesn’t make a difference to me.

    I’m just chillin and hanging.

    And as far as spending money on seminars and products –

    There’s a lot of crap being sold on how to make money online.

    Most of the stuff is repackaged garbage which can be found for free.

    But there are some people who I consider their material gold.

    Some seminars are pitch fests. The only goal is to sell you their shit – some times at super inflated prices to take advantage of the audience.

    I never play that game. I don’t need to.

    I don’t care about the fancy cars, boats, or jet planes.

    My little car is fine, I get sea sick, and I hate flying.

    What does turn me on (my Ed.D is in Education) is watching the lights come on in peoples’ eyes when the get it.

    And an even better thrill is when they get it and take action on it.

    Nothing better.

    So for all the people who think they know me, STFU.

    At least CK dares accept a Shabbat invitation from the Dark Side.

    I suspect it wasn’t only to get a free meal.

    Right now, I’m just chillin and enjoying hanging in JM.

    And for those who want to get to know me… @drkilstein

    And yes, I will try to sell you something. ;-P

    Peace.

    Off in search of a latte. (And a yoga class)

  • I feel that t-shirts should be made. II have this vision of a coffee shop s[lit into halves, with shirts that say CK, and ones which say Mr. Kilstein. And going along with the seriousness of all of the above comments, how about we change the forum… to mud wrestling? If this does occur, ck, you owe me a pictures. :-p

  • and another thing…

    the reason this thread is getting so many comments from people that don’t comment here, is that this thread is tagged on twitter with the affilicon hashtag…

    just a FYI.

    (do you get the mail send to wordpress@jewlicious? I send you something via email, not for publication. thanks.)

  • I wonder how many seasoned Internet professionals would be willing to pony up $800 or $250 or whatever in order to get the sort of advice being sold at these marketing events. In my experience the answer is very few and for obvious reasons.

    The first Internet marketing event I attended when I was a clueless rookie was John Reese’s event on traffic.

    It cost $4500 to get in the door.

    What I learned at the seminar has made me millions of dollars.

    Then again, I’ve attended seminars for $49 that weren’t worth a dime.

    You’ve got to find who’s the real deal and who the BS artists are.

    To brand everyone online a scammer is just silly.

    To brand every marketer as honest is just as naive.

    Not everyone is a Lavan. Not everyone is an Avraham.

    But to mix the two because of a hunch is simply beneath contempt.

    Since this “event” has wandered from its purpose, I’ve taken the liberty of selecting a few people who have approached me for help and I’m going to help them grow their businesses.

    You’re welcome to watch.

    But to debate whether all Internet marketers are really peddlers of porn or penis extenders is a waste of my time.

    If this is a challenge as to whether I can teach someone to make money online quickly and ethically, I say BRING IT.

    On the other hand, if this is a pointless debate on marketing philosophy, I might just puke on your shoes.

    As I said on the stage at Affilicon – I’m not about theory, I’m about results.

    Anyone who cares about getting better results online, you’re invited.

    Anyone who just wants to masturbate their ego and prove people can’t make money online are correct. THEY can’t.

    Just be respectful of the people who want to learn and to grow.

    And if you have a website and it’s not performing or you don’t know how to pick a niche, get higher CTR, increase the conversion rates, etc etc. Bypass Google, use SRDS, etc. etc. I’ll walk u thru the steps.

    Looking forward to Shabbat dinner with CK.

    I might just bring him over to the Dark Side over dinner.

    Peace.

  • Before I start Shabbat, I’d just like to say that this thread has been way educational. I admire everyone’s passion for what they do, and also for what they won’t. In the end I think there is something to learn from everyone, there’s no way around that. I stand by my original sentiments: I’m glad I went to affilicon, I learned a lot, I am skeptical and wary of many of the ways things are done in the marketing world (not new to the net),I’m not a tremendous fan of smoke and mirrors to make $, and I in my oldskool literary way cant help but feel that truly excellent content / quality product and genuine / organic social networking and skill is more important to me than zillions of $ or followers…. But a few thousand of each wouldnt kill me. I dont understand all the anger but I am so glad people had the outlet. God bless. And I was serious when I thanked the people who taught me how I might come up with some modest, honest earnings on my own scale, even if their way is far more bombastic than I am comfortable with. With that, I hope this thread will rest on the 7th day

  • I never said everyone is a scammer, but really, how many people at Affilicon are going to make back that $800 they spent? My experience is less than 10%. I’ll bring a friend’s web site for you to evaluate. We’ll see what the difference is between your advice and my advice. No namby pamby puke inducing philosophy (sorry muffti).

  • This is so phony and shallow that it is almost offensively banal to point this out. Will we get to hear / read more empty catchphrases by a non-expert enjoying the platform and advertising he’s getting on here?

  • CK said: “how many people at Affilicon are going to make back that $800 they spent? My experience is less than 10%.”

    I think you were being optimistic, but I fully concur with your sentiments.

    I’ve sold millions online (not air-filled info products, but dull, competitive household products which are much harder to sell without the built-in puffery element) so I think I’m a keen observer.

    I credit ZERO of my most useful experience to any of the “modern day gurus” or seminar banter. In fact, those seminars (by necessity of their broad-appeal) MUST be geared to the lowest common denominator. There are few significant “secrets” revealed in those seminars; most everything is already “out there.” Seminars are typically over-priced “feel good” vacations. They are a distraction from actually DOING. Anesthesia for the hopeful but tentative.

    In fact, most of what has helped me most was derived from freely available online discourse. There is MUCH good info out there!

    I can appreciate the basic desire of people who want to be “gurus,” because they are looking for a livelihood. However, the reality is that these people are mostly middlemen/women standing between you and the information you seek, and simply charging you a toll to get past them.

    I say you rarely need to pay that toll.

  • Shay wrote “This is BY FAR the best thread i read in years :))”

    Clearly, You need to come to Jewlicious more often…

  • Thank you for the post on the show. Our MediaTrust team members really enjoyed the show very much. I think Itay has done and excellent job of developing a good platform for the emerging markets outside the US.(which are very important markets)

    Congratulations to Affilicon and thank you everyone for your wonderful hospitality to our @mediatrust team.

    @mediatrustpete

  • So yeah, me and Kilstein had it out over Geffilte fish at Shabbat dinner. We’re gonna meet with whoever wants to show up on Monday at 11:30 am SHARP at Cafe Aroma at Mamila. Details to follow…

  • You only offered one shot. My synagogue has Arak shots before mussaf. Also, you teach soccer Moms how to make $ on the Internet. We know who the wuss is.

    😉

    See ya Monday. I’ll be brown bagging a bottle of Arak in order to make your lecture more bearable.

  • So let’s see…this thread has managed to speak lashon hara against: Madoff’s victims (who were mostly either greedy and/or stupid, i.e. not as sophisticated as CK); 30+ moms who will buy anything if told they don’t look a day over 25 (i.e. not as sophisticated as froylein); soccer moms who apparently are the lowest of the low and if you help them make money, you’ve really stooped (but let’s not cloud this issue with the fact that most of the people in the internet marketing industry are men – I would say about 75-80% of the participants at Affilicon were males, as were 95% of the speakers – but of course it’s all “soccer moms”); all speakers at Affilicon who are greedy, blood-sucking, internet ruining, self proclaiming SOBs (thanks to Neyne for putting it so eloquently); and Harlan Kilstein who many, without knowing anything about him, have judged to be a scamming so-called internet marketing expert.

    Nice.

    Oh, gotta run. There’s a nice young salesman here who wants to sell me a bridge, and he says I don’t look a day over 25. And then, after I take my kids to soccer, I have to buy an ebook about making money online. Of course, all this is after I take a break from sucking the blood of the innocent who attended Affilicon. I’ve got a busy day ahead of me.

  • In addition to the Monday morning session with Jewlicious, I’m doing a free Internet marketing session at the Inbal Monday night at 7:30.

    Free – Translation – No Dinero. Nothing will be sold. Nothing to buy. Chinam. (As in Sinat Chinam but that’s more about this thread).

    If you have a website and it’s not doing well OR you have questions, just come. It’s a Q&A format.

    I’d love to say make a donation to the Orphanage but then some people would probably say I’m making a buck on the deal.

  • Miriam, not quite. I elaborated on why and how it’s easy to sell to a certain demography. I do not need to label myself an expert in sales to do that. The emphasis is on myself as thanks to Google, I found that no noteworthy business publication provides any information about Kilstein; all other sites that reference him either copy info by him or are so strikingly identical in vocabulary and syntax that they are likely his.
    Lashon hara is spreading gossip not yet publicly known; what I (and others) claimed above can be known by anyone who admits to a little reflection on the issue at hand. It’s not hidden information that could portray anyone in a bad light. And there also are cases where speaking out is justified even if it sheds a negative light onto someone.

    Shira, I’m not getting anything out of Kilstein, and I’m actually upset that this shady figure gets to promote himself on here. Considering the high number of readers Jewlicious has already got and that we’re not afraid of, pardon my French, pissing people off to the extent that they vow never to read Jewlicious again, we do not need Kilstein to promote us. The fact that he had never heard of Jewlicious and CK before tells me that he is anything but an expert in the field he claims to be an expert in. And that is only just the tip of the iceberg.

  • Everyone should take at least a few minutes to learn more about those they allow to influence their lives.

    A simple Google search on Harlan Kilstein provides this additional background information, for example:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22tsvi+kilstein%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

    That’s just for starters, of course. If you take what you discover there, you can expand the search into other directions as well.

    Given what you’ll find via the above link, you’ve got to wonder if his current “pseudo-congeniality” routine is just another chapter out of the “mind control” handbooks he has studied. It’s clearly a non-sustainable routine though, as you can see from some of his jarringly venomous comments on the sites at that link.

  • Incidentally, I’m not necessarily endorsing any of the external commentary you’ll find (easily) that criticizes Kilstein on various matters. I’ll leave that to others to discern. However, I do think Kilstein’s own responses (on those various external forums) say a LOT about his character. Based on that alone, I would question his place as an “expert” or someone suitable to be anyone’s advisor.

  • I found that no noteworthy business publication provides any information about Kilstein; all other sites that reference him either copy info by him or are so strikingly identical in vocabulary and syntax that they are likely his.

    OMG, you figured out my master plan. Fly to Israel, get Jewlicious to right about me, and just capitalize on sneaky marketing to people who:

    1. aren’t in my demographic
    2. don’t have the money for my services
    3. know more than I do

    I should have known better that to think my master plan would sneak by the astute readers of Jewlicious.

    Just think, a blog I barely new existed is now the corner stone of my marketing plan to people not in my demographic.

    Sometimes, a good belly laugh is all it takes and Froylein, I assure you, all the serious Internet marketers who see this are laughing (as am I) at you.

    Refuah Shleima.

  • Incidentally, I’m not necessarily endorsing any of the external commentary you’ll find (easily) that criticizes Kilstein on various matters. I’ll leave that to others to discern. However, I do think Kilstein’s own responses (on those various external forums) say a LOT about his character. Based on that alone, I would question his place as an “expert” or someone suitable to be anyone’s advisor.

    I’m not endorsing this stuff.

    I don’t even have the decency to contact the fellow and get his response.

    It’s just my Pavlovian response that when I see shmutz I have to repost it as automatically true.

    It doesn’t matter whether he even posted that stuff, whether it’s true, or any of the above, I just like to repost shmutz.

    Thanks Zag for sharing your inspirational thoughts.

    If you reverse the letters of your name, it gives insight into your personality.

    A lot of hot smelly air.

  • Uh I was kidding about the soccer mom comment… didn’t you see the winking smiley face icon? The evil Dr. Krilstein and I had a lovely shabbat dinner and he employed his evil Jedi mind tricks by pretty much agreeing with most of what I said! The cad!!! Others may have significant issues with him but I like to give folks a chance and much to the dismay of my Satan worshiping neighbors, he does not in fact seem to be the devil incarnate. Oh well… So we’re meeting at Cafe Aroma in Mamila on Monday at 11:30. I’m bringing Arak. Because I like Arak.

  • For the record, I’m a big fan of soccer moms.

    I’m also a big fan of women who want to make extra money on the Internet. Especially women over 30.

    I’m also in favor of affiliate marketing and never buy any electronics without first checking tech coupon sites that redirect me to some excellent prices.

    I also don’t give a hoot whether Kilstein is or isn’t a scammer.

    And I don’t like arak. Or gefilte fish.

    Compared to our old debates about converts and non-Orthodox Jews, this thread has been a walk in the park on a sunny day with a pleasant breeze.

  • Shira – LOL! Beware the wrath of Miriam.

    Here’s more wrath. Sorry I can’t help it…

    Froylein, maybe I’m missing something, but I can’t really foresee how any of the above demographic bashing will help any of us in life, unless someone here is a slimy salesperson who wants to try their luck at flattering housewives to make a sale.

    As for you CK – somehow I missed the winking smiley face. Maybe because it didn’t really seem like a joke, but I may be wrong since my sense of humor tends to evaporate in the face of chauvinism.

    And since we’re all here having such a good time, I thought some of you may be interested in seeing my presentation from Affilicon. It’s about “5 Things Social Media is NOT.” I played devil’s advocate, which I guess suits a blood sucking devil-Affilicon panelist like myself:

    http://illuminea.com/social-media/what-social-media-marketing-is-not-affilicon/

    Now I will try to take deep breaths to overcome my wrath and regain my sense of humor.

  • Harlan, take a pill. It’s not about anything BUT YOUR INTERACTIONS with people. Don’t dilute the point.

    What I was and am saying is: your impulsive outbursts DO NOT REFLECT WELL ON YOU. Whatever good you feel you are doing or trying to do can be impulsively invalidated by your own sudden, polar opposite behavior. Resist the self-sabotage!

    Your last two responses (to me and Froylein) underscore this.

    You purport to follow NLP, yoga, etc., and various lifestyle elements that at their core are based on concepts of love, kindness, communication, etc.

    At the same time, you exhibit sudden and substantial outbursts of rage that DO YOU NO FAVORS. Why do you indulge that unruly “little voice” inside you that causes you such grief? You must know by now that it is no friend of yours.

    Much of the skepticism here is in direct correlation to your past interactions noted elsewhere.

    Simply accept the mixed reviews, and criticism for any mistakes/ill will from the past, and do so with constant humility, sincerity, and compassion. Vanquish the rage.

    The old way just doesn’t work, and truly never did.

  • CK…it appears you have been assimilated…Kilstein has employed hypnotic charm techniques upon you. If only he would employ hypnotic charm techniques on EVERYBODY (consistently), then…no problemo! 🙂

  • Shira, I’m not getting anything out of Kilstein, and I’m actually upset that this shady figure gets to promote himself on here. Considering the high number of readers Jewlicious has already got and that we’re not afraid of, pardon my French, pissing people off to the extent that they vow never to read Jewlicious again, we do not need Kilstein to promote us. The fact that he had never heard of Jewlicious and CK before tells me that he is anything but an expert in the field he claims to be an expert in. And that is only just the tip of the iceberg.

    Excuse me, I just peed my pants reading this. How is Jewlicious in any way related to what I do? And what drug are you taking to think I was promoting you?

    And speaking of pot heads, Gaz pops in with brilliance:

    What I was and am saying is: your impulsive outbursts DO NOT REFLECT WELL ON YOU. Whatever good you feel you are doing or trying to do can be impulsively invalidated by your own sudden, polar opposite behavior. Resist the self-sabotage!

    Do you ever pull your head out.

    Here you and Froylein hide behind nicknames while I post my name.

    How brave you are to hide behind your nome de guerre!

    I take everything you say very seriously.

    In fact, I’m thinking of hiring you as a consultant.

    Your brilliance just shines on.

    How could I have missed it in the past?

  • Kilstein, thanks for proving me right. You’re an irrelevant non-expert when it comes to marketing who will rather get passive-agressive than prove himself worthy of listening to. I didn’t say you made Jewlicious the cornerstone of your marketing activities, but you have pretty obviously made use of the forum here. I’m somewhat convinced that about any price would meet your requirements. Real money does not boast, and class is not a facial cream. Your allusions to “serious internet marketers” is just another subtle flattery directed at the people you try to charm – those that pay to get your advice or have paid you to get your advice. If I pay my dentist $1k to explain to me what the life of a dentist is like, that might include some interesting info on the life of a dentist but doesn’t make me a dentist. I yet have to see any piece of information of value that cannot be found on the internet for free or published in affordable books written by people that actually have a degree in economics, let alone the legal issues that come with an international marketplace.

    Miriam, it’s not so much bashing as enhancing awareness. Have you never had a case of buyer’s remorse? I certainly did, and it doesn’t hurt to familarize yourself with marketing strategies and the skills and tricks of advertizing. I just finished teaching a class on analyzing and evaluating the content of visual ads. I’ve got a lot of friends with a post-graduate degree in “Computervisualistik” or “Informationmanagement”; those innovative tracks of studies are concerned with IT, internet marketing and the psychology thereof on a highly professional level. That is four years of university studies plus extensive internships, classes taught by reputable professors of IT, economics, law, visual arts, and psychology, and actual marketing experts. That is the concurrence you’ll have to put up with.

  • Without even so much as the glimpse of a guilty conscience, I can say that I’m not involved in any illegal activities, e.g. smoking pot (which is not legalized in Europe, but under certain conditions its use will not be persecuted).

  • Excellent! I got a ride and am very much looking forward to this. It’s been 21 years since I last met with (gosh what do I call him after all these years?) @drkilstein and it should be fun to see him again. This time though he can’t send me to the bench 🙂

  • Kilstein: you are one mean, vindictive, angry person.

    Perhaps you can hide it occasionally over dinner when the drinks are flowing, or when you are dancing on stage and receiving misspent money for your non-act.

    My analysis is that you know little about marketing, a lot about posturing, and much about tearing people down.

    This is certainly nothing anyone should reward or pay you for.

    Since you are conducting an open public “questioning,” it will be a good opportunity for people to ask you some VERY difficult (and extremely uncomfortable) questions.

  • I appreciate an active civil discourse … what is more important to the vitality of society? Probably nothing.

    However, there are lines that cannot be crossed. Mr Kilstein, and many other “Internet Marketing Gurus,” are on the wrong side of that line. And quite obviously.

    The VICTIMS of these predators are REAL. It’s not some abstract debate about the comparative value of different marketing styles. REAL people are being exploited and manipulated.

    I’ve pledged to spend {at least} one year of my life trying to slow and stifle Internet Con Men … and to helping their victims. This is the 5th month of the project, and I can already say this with a HIGH degree of certainty :: They AREN’T stealing from the mythical “Soccer Mom,” nor are they capitalizing on people’s “greed.” They are selling FALSE HOPE to the HOPELESS. Most of the victims I talk to have very tragic stories. They’ve been beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and they are just desperate to believe that things COULD possibly get better.

    If you are going to meet with Mr. Kilstein, talk with him, drink with him, blog about him, etc. Make sure you WIN .. make sure he ends up looking a FOOL … and sulking back to his rat’s nest in tears. Anything less, and you are standing look-out while he beats old ladies about the head and takes their wallets.

    “Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.” ~~ God

  • For the record, Kilstein is on here using his real name and the folks who are treating him worst than a child murderer are not using their real names. That gives them an advantage but it also calls into question all of their claims.

  • So its’ tomorrow,

    Monday at 11:30 am @ Cafe Aroma at Mamilla.

    Can anyone give me the address?

    Do you know what number of people are planing to show up?

  • I have revealed all of my relevant details … with the exception of my name and address.

    I receive disgusting threats on a semi-regular basis … even though I’m sure they are all empty and hollow … it hasn’t encouraged me to put myself on Google Maps.

  • I understand that you don’t want to reveal who you are and you will notice I also don’t use my real name on this site although ck does. My point is that you’re making some extremely harsh accusations against a person who is using his real name. It’s hard to accept your claims. For all we know, you could be someone who used his system, lost money and are embittered. For all we know you could be his last girlfriend and you had a rough break-up. You’re not just commenting on his product, but you’re actually hounding the guy, tracking his every move and then coming here to tell us, using a moniker that keeps you anonymous, some nasty things about him. It’s not really acceptable behavior. You can get away with it because it’s the USA and because this is the Internet, but just be clear that it’s not acceptable and anybody who reads what you write should be very dubious about everything and anything you say.

  • The address?? It’s in the Mamilla Mall. In front of Jaffa Gate. Whoever shows up shows up. If those instructions are too difficult, I have an ebook you can purchase for only $29.99 that will direct you to the event. If you still get lost there’s a no questions asked money back guarantee! Visit my web site for more details at http://www.doyouknowhowtousegoogle.com ! See ya at Aroma!

  • Middle :: I can’t contest your point. It’s the clear downside of the anonymity. Also, my tone is unorthodox and highly venomous which tends to cause confusion. Perhaps revealing myself and taking a more professional tone would aid my cause. I don’t know.

    However, I’m not making “accusations” against these guys … I’m just pointing {boisterously} to their ON THE RECORD duplicity.

    I’m not asking anyone to believe me. Look it up. You think “Finger Healing” is a legit product? Are Kilstein’s comments on Failed Messiah {and elsewhere} within the bounds of decency? Was it acceptable for him to tell people {privately} that I’d published a lie about him murdering his child?

    I’m going to go with NO. On all counts.

    I won’t sully your thread with my comments anymore. It’s rude to fan flame wars on forums that don’t belong to you. Thanks again for letting me have my say.

  • Droid, by all means, please keep on commenting. Kilstein has shown his venom and rage above and by avoiding points that were addressed, he showed that people hit the proverbial nail on the head.

    Middle, there are more people than Salty Droid out there stating the same. The story is public record.

  • Good time had by all! Great to see you again @drkilstein and great to meet you David, Sam and everyone else! And thanks for the ride and the talk SARke

  • There wasn’t anything really to discuss. Krilstein was genial and pretty much agreed with all my critiques of the industry. The existence of self professed experts with limited knowledge and depth? Yup. The existence of shady operators? Yup. Most people don’t manage to take the time to effectively use what is taught to them? Yup. The importance of compelling c