So far:
Poland, Canada, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Israel and the USA.
Shame on any Western, democratic country that participates. France, Britain, Spain, Switzerland, Norway, Finland are just some examples of countries that haven’t backed out of this bad joke where the leaders and NGOs active in such enlightened countries as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. focus the UN’s energies and reputation on besmirching Israel to the exclusion of the rest of the world.
Just a small reminder to any attendees who might read this little post: the non-Jewish Arabs who live in Israel have more rights than the Arabs in virtually all Arab states. Israeli non-Jewish women, Arab and non-Arab, have more rights – in fact, rights equal by law to all Israeli citizens – than virtually all women in the Middle East.
Israel stands head and shoulders above its critic countries when it comes to freedom of individuals, freedom of the press and the rights of its citizens. And no, it’s far from perfect and there are many flaws within its society. But even with those flaws and even with the necessary presence of its military among the Palestinians of the West Bank/Judea and Samaria, Israel still maintains a moral superiority over those countries who will be running the show in Geneva this week. Those Western democracies and their NGOs that will be attending and thereby actively or passively supporting the charade of this forum that is nothing more than an anti-Israel festival should recognize that it is to their shame – just as it was in Durban several years ago – that they’re participants. Yes, Amnesty and HRW stand out in particular as do the countries I list above.
Update: Poland and Sweden have been added to the list. My apologies for the oversight.
CTC, a large chunk of Israel’s population is not Jewish. Jews from the former Sovietunion need to give some proof of religious affiliation as Israel simply cannot afford paying benefits to large numbers of immigrants, but will try for their brethren that do not enjoy religious freedom in their respective countries of origin. Christians live pretty comfortably in Israel, not so much in the Palestinian territories, Sudan, and even the more progressive Egypt, where mob-style harrassment against Christians goes unpersecuted. Only the other day I spoke to a NYC cabbie who was originally from Egypt, and upon noticing his rosary, asked if he was Christian. His story: he had a store for watches in Egypt; after his store had been vandalized twice by Islamist mobs and the police did not do anything about it, he left the country. His two sons were not permitted to higher education in Egypt as they are Christians but now attend college resp. university in the US. Compare that to seven universities in the Palestinian territories and who paid for those.
Just because somebody speaks Arabic does not make them ethnic Arabs; told you, Arabs do not even consider Palestinians Arabs as they are not of Arabic ethnicity. Most Kurdish people speak Arabic, but do not only not care to but are not generally considered Arabs as that would make tables turn in human rights violations committed against Kurdish people throughout the Middle East except for in Israel.
CTC, I’m not convinced you’ve ever even tried Polish food, but FYI, Fruchtzwerge are made in Germany by the German division of the Danone group. Your other “facts” might require just as much checking back. You cannot convert to a different ethinicity, and it comes as little surprise that the Arabic League will include countries that are predominantly Muslim and therefore officially Arabic speaking just as much as English, which both serve as a lingua franca in a state of non-homogenous ethnicity. Still, that won’t change anything about those people’s backgrounds. Israel does not force its non-Jewish citizens to convert as is the case in most Muslim theocracies and the much-tolerated practice in more “progressive” Muslim states / territories.
Fruchtzwerg? Somebody likes his yoghurt. 😉
xisnots – It is a very interesting one, and I would be happy to know more about its context. I do think there is some sort of tendency to see every criticism of Israel and/or Zionism as anti-Semitism. I believe this is a mistake, which sometimes lead liberal Jews in the US to support policies that contradicts their values.
Noam, what do you think of the Foxman quote I posted?
weiss identifies as anti-zionist. his background is in mainstream journalism, NYT, NY Mag, etc.
The middle,
You are just wrong here. Israeli Arabs are NOT equal under the law. Not just the Law of Return, but also the citizenship order – a law specifically aimed against the Arab citizens, which has no equivalence anywhere in the world.
Furthermore, The practice of discrimination against Arabs by government agencies is so widespread and systematic, that you cannot regard it as anything but official state policy. Read, for example, Haaretz’s editorial on the matter today.
As for your other comment, the Arab citizens of Israel never posed a security threat to the state, not even in wartime. Those who committed acts of terrorism weren’t even a minority – they were just a handful of individuals, over a period more than 60 years in which the Arabs suffered hatred, discrimination, and even murder (like in the Kfar Kassem incident).
You can’t be a liberal in the US and support the segregating policies of Israel. It just doesn’t work.
Who is this Phillip Weiss character? What kind of site is that? It sounds like Stormfront but is run by a Jew??? His blog alone should prove that Jews are not genetically superior as alleged by the LA Times…
I think Foxman begs the question. If he’s saying that a state privileges its citizens, then he’s right in that commonplace observation; Americans get the benefit of the Bill of Rights, but when froylein gets searched here she enjoys no Fourth Amendment protection. The key issue is, who is a citizen and how are its qualifications defined? In that sense, Israel and Germany, for example, define citizenship differently than France or the US. As I understand it (from this site), Israeli Araba want something like the French model of a state of all its citizens.
i posted it for debate purposes, not to score or make a point. I’m not entirely sure what to make of Foxman’s quote.
Fruchtzwerg, you have my apologies. I didn’t see it in the couple of lists I saw. I will fix the post.
Xisnotx, I suspect you didn’t intend to support me, but I think you did. Thanks.
Noam, Canada or Denmark aren’t experiencing their sixth decade of war surrounded by hostile neighbors and even hostile citizens who wish for nothing less than their destruction. My comment was intended to contrast Israel’s Arabs with the Arabs of other states, not Israel’s Arabs with, say, African-Americans in America. Are the Arabs of France, the ones who come from North Africa for example, discriminated against? Yup. Israel can hold its head high, even while we criticize those things that need to be improved. Name another country that has to deal with an internal population that openly supports the enemy in wartime.
Arabs in Israel are equal under the law. There is discrimination, without a doubt, but there is a judiciary that protects them.
abe foxman:
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/foxman-is-zionism-racism-you-bet-it-is-all-nationalism-is-.html
“Can you be anti-Zionist and not be an anti-Semite? Almost never. Unless you can prove to me you’re against nationalism. If you’re one of those unique individuals in this world that’s opposed to American nationalism, French nationalism, Palestinian nationalism, then you can be opposed to Jewish nationalism. Is it racist? You bet it is. Every nationalism is racist. It sets its laws of citizenship, it sets its own capital… It sets its songs, it sets its values. It is, if you will, exclusive, and you can even call it racist. But if the only nationalism in the world that is racist is Jewish nationalism, then you’re an anti-Semite.. I don’t want to make any apologies for it. â€
Poland boyycotts this spectacle too. As a Pole, Israel friend and an Islam enemy, a iam a liitle angry about You mistake.
the non-Jewish Arabs who live in Israel have more rights than the Arabs in virtually all Arab states. Israeli non-Jewish women, Arab and non-Arab, have more rights – in fact, rights equal by law to all Israeli citizens – than virtually all women in the Middle East.
The first part of this paragraph is sad: there was a time when Israel claimed to be a western-style liberal democracy, with equal rights for all. In other words, we used to compare ourselves to Denmark or Canada. Now we are proud that we are better than Sudan and Libya. Great.
The second part is simply not true. Israeli Arabs are discriminated in Israel Both by law and by practice.
And that’s without saying a word about the WB.
Wow, what a beautiful speech. It almost made me forget the part where you called me a racist because I’m a Zionist and a manipulator of government because I’m a Jew.
Now fuck off.
my point boils down to the basic concepts that everyone is equal, that people shouldn’t be subject to special limitations or privileges based on their race, lineage, religion, or sexual preference, that everyone is equally entitled to vote, that the public should control their government, and that everyone is entitled to free speech, whether their ideas are popular and socially acceptable or not.
if that is idiotic then I’m an idiot, or if it’s bigoted then I’m a bigot. it’s not personal, though. a lot of groups attack civil rights for one reason or another: liberals, conservatives, christians, muslims, jews, the content industry, bankers, cartels and monopolies, street gangs, power hungry governments and militias.
there is no reason to make an exception for zionism, either to disproportionately oppose it, or to compromise on global civil rights and to tolerate the idea that a certain demographic has special privileges and entitlements.
JL,
you seem to lean heavily on UN. stop and consider that it was UN that voted to establish Israel as a nation (and I am thankful that they do it).
long live Israel!!1
JL,
You started with the racism and now you’re into the conspiracy theories. And you’re still wrong on virtually every point that you make.
I’ll tell you what. You’ve had plenty of say and these Jews and Zionists of Jewlicious have permitted you to have your say. As I mentioned already, I’m tired of dealing with bigots and don’t feel like reading your stupidity and ignorance any more. I will permit one more comment where you can say whatever you like about Jews, Jewish control of the universe, racism or any other moronic, bigoted ideas you carry around. Then, you’ll be done here. Bye bye.
By the way, you should apply for a job as Ahmadinejad’s personal assistant. He’d love you.
“Zionism is a political movement, that say that the jews should have an own state. It has nothing to do with racism at all (even the UN see it not as racism). The most jews belong to one nation because 1.)we are not proselytize(it is not allowed) 2.)it is hard to become a jew(only if you realy believe and it takes 1,2 or even more years).” – the UN denounced zionism as a racist policy and only reversed it decades later when israel refused to cease hostilities until the measure was removed. the UN simply voided the previous declaration in a one-sentence resolution (the shortest in history), but there has been no declaration that zionism is not racism. other than that, your comments fail to address what I’ve said. to repeat:
“a state that enforces or favors a majority with a particular lineage and/or religion is certainly prejudicial and contrary to the fundamental civil rights and constitutions of most developed countries.
that being said, if zionists were only advocating a state devoted to a particular religion, rather than a system based on race, lineage, or genetics, and the movement was a peaceful and transparent movement, I would have no special objection to zionism, even though I would still disagree with any integration of any state and any religion.”
“JL1 slandering with prejudice:
the concept of a jewish nation is as racist as the concept of an aryan nation.” – the fact is that if you advocate zionism based on the concept of a jewish race then you’re advocating racism, or if it’s based on a jewish theocracy then you’re advocating a prejudicial state model that is contrary to most constitutions and standards of civil rights. muslims propose a theocracy based on an even more prejudicial and invasive ideology, of course, but pointing to a more extreme ideology doesn’t legitimize a state that enforces a particular race and/or religion as a majority.
“trotting out some bigotry to further expound:
israeli activists typically buy and otherwise undemocratically gain political influence rather than trying to convince the public.” – jewish and israeli activism represent more campaign contributions than any other group, and yet, israel is never discussed with the public, the people aren’t given a choice or an alternative to blind support of israel by their government. speaking openly, I find it infuriating and disgusting. no, not because it’s jewish and israeli interests, but because it’s underhanded and subversive. I find it just as frustrating when other interests co-opt the government without going through democratic channels, but this sincerely is the worst example by far in the US today. the facts are grotesque. also, public information about media ownership and high level government positions proves that there is a disproportionate representation of jewish interests.
“Arabs, their prophet, their Islam and every atom in them has and been always raciest.” – I agree, islam is horrible and inherently oppressive. I would strongly prefer to live in israel than in any muslim theocracy if I had no other option.
To JL,
Give IT up. I am not a Jew nor an Israeli. I am a product of the raciest Islamic world that you are trying sooooooo very hard to defend but failing. JL just give it up, we know the reality that you are denying.
Arabs, their prophet, their Islam and every atom in them has and been always raciest. The problem in the Islamic world had always been people like you JL who try to defend them when there is no defend.
Da Ouad
Recovering from Islam
JL, you self-centered buffoon, why do you think your opinion matters?
JL 1:
JL2 trying to obfuscate:
JL1:
JL1 slandering with prejudice:
JL2 trying to obfuscate:
JL1:
JL2 trotting out some bigotry to further expound:
Not very impressive.
TO JL
You are realy funny or is it just a lack of intelligence? What ever.
Zionism is a political movement, that say that the jews should have an own state. It has nothing to do with racism at all (even the UN see it not as racism). The most jews belong to one nation because 1.)we are not proselytize(it is not allowed) 2.)it is hard to become a jew(only if you realy believe and it takes 1,2 or even more years).
I hope now it is clear even for you.
“One can become a Jew. One cannot become an Arab. Stop convoluting apples and oranges.” – I didn’t dispute this definition, I made the point that it would be hypocritical to claim that jewish people aren’t a race in order to deny that zionism is a racist doctrine, but then to claim that opposition to zionism and/or judaism is inherently racist. in fact, I would consider it a breath of fresh air for zionists to stop claiming that their opponents are racists, and to start to address the resentment of israel for what it is: a response to a political movement.
though, a state that enforces or favors a majority with a particular lineage and/or religion is certainly prejudicial and contrary to the fundamental civil rights and constitutions of most developed countries.
that being said, if zionists were only advocating a state devoted to a particular religion, rather than a system based on race, lineage, or genetics, and the movement was a peaceful and transparent movement, I would have no special objection to zionism, even though I would still disagree with any integration of any state and any religion.
my main objections are that zionism gives preference to particular lineages, whether they represent a race or not, that pro-israel censorship and smear campaigns against opponents are common, and that israeli activists typically buy and otherwise undemocratically gain political influence rather than trying to convince the public.
and no, I’m not pissed off at jews. in fact, I’m well aware that zionism isn’t supported by all jewish people.
I asked JL,
“Which would you rather be, an irrational hater or an ignorant idiot?”
JL responded,
In avoiding the question, he answered it. The answer: an irrationally hateful, ignorant idiot.
Admit it, JL, you are even more pissed off at Jews now than you were when you first visited our site. Grrrrr.
And a reminder to all those people at HRW and Amnesty that people like JL are the people with whom they’ve made their bed.
One can become a Jew.
One cannot become an Arab.
Stop convoluting apples and oranges.
the false dichotomy, a mainstay of zionist debate tactics.
the standard that jewish people aren’t a race would have many implications. one implication is that enforcing a jewish majority in israel isn’t state sponsored racism. another is that it wouldn’t be accurate to claim that opponents of zionism must hate jewish people and are therefore racists.
so if your standard is that jews are not a race and prejudice for or against jews is not racism then there may be validity to your point.
though, I strongly suspect that, like all zionist rhetoric, this is a matter of hypocrisy, and you would maintain that opposition to israel and zionism is a matter of racism. if that is the case, then your argument is a moving target, and has little value.
also, even if you are making the consistent and sincere point that jewish people are not a race and that jewish-centric ideas are not racist in nature, the concept of zionism is still one of historical entitlement based on lineage, which is widely accepted as a prejudicial and unacceptable standard.
I don’t think you’ve used the word “racist” enough in your rant, JL. Calling Jews a race is where you shine in your ignorance. It’s the key reason that it’s hard to take you seriously as a commenter, although I take your hatred seriously. I chalk it up to general ignorance on your part. The only other possibility is irrational hatred. Which would you rather be, an irrational hater or an ignorant idiot?
Ok, I think I’m done with you after this – but I said you are wrong because you were proven wrong, yet instead of responding – just said that sarcasm was a weak response. If that amuses you – glad to be of service.
“the concept of a Iranian nation is as racist as the concept of an aryan nation” – the concept of a country with an enforced arab majority would be inherently racist
“Iran never fails to be in a position of hypocrisy and double standards.” – islamic movements also consistently complain about censorship and discrimination, and meanwhile they press an agenda of censoring and discriminating against a variety of groups. muslim “leaders” are constantly presenting the laughable case that outside forces are interfering with their right to interfere with the rights of their people.
“Iran claims that racism is wrong, and then demands that we ignore the racism inherent in building a Iranian nation.” – I don’t know much about racist majority schemes in arab nations, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some truth to that.
“Iran claims Muslims are censored and excluded, and then they demand that their opponents be silenced.” – so true. in fact, this has been true of almost all militant movements but certain anarcho-capitalism/anarcho-whatever movements, and it’s certainly true of almost all abrahamic religious movements, which normally contain explicit calls to censorship.
“Iran claims to be victims of slander and prejudice, and then they automatically divert from political discussions to make personal accusations about individuals being nazis.” – I don’t think that’s accurate. iranian sources typically seem to be insistent on talking openly and directly about subjects that christians and zionists would like to silence, like the relevance and accuracy of holocaust claims, or the relevance of american, british and german opinions on the subject of whether to have a forced zionist presence in the middle east.
“this is just another example of Iran and its allies pressing the view that free speech on behalf of Iran and Muslims is a right, but free speech in opposition to Iran is wrong.” – were objections raised to having proponents of israel making their opinions heard? I thought it was only the opposite, as always.
“how would you feel if an arab nation removed netanyahu
and installed Uri Avnery as israeli PM?” – I think the racist two-tier mentality of israel’s allies is that such a thing would be an act unspeakable tyranny if the chosen race was on the receiving end.
“A non-racist, non-racial, non-hypocritical, fair-minded Jew and Zionist” a non-racist, non-racial, non-hypocritical, fair-minded person who supports moving people into or out of a certain area based on race, and artificially maintaining a particular race as a majority. the aryan brotherhood would probably get why there’s no conflict there, but it seems like a conflict in terms to me.
I was going to say nothing about you being a Jew or not and why you’re here.
In any case – saying what you said about sarcasm is something only someone would say if they have no more facts or reason to rely on. sarcasm can be used WITH facts – it means nothing like that what you said.
LB i am not claiming the muslim world is the defender of freedom, what i am saying is that the west isnt.
nice try with the sarcasm though, by the way, sarcasm is the last resort of the weak minded, if you cant beat me with facts, then dont try sarcasm, it makes you look weak
CTC – I know the history – but how does that make the current regime right? It doesn’t.
If “the west is not the defender of free speech and freedom” then it might be the Muslim world, champions of civil liberties, that we should turn to.
JL,
We have five years of records rebutting haters like you and I’m tired and lazy today. Sorry if that bothers you. Sorry if calling you a hater bothers you. Sorry that I didn’t call you an ignorant idiot. Next time.
Love,
A non-racist, non-racial, non-hypocritical, fair-minded Jew and Zionist
JL, here you go –
the concept of a Iranian nation is as racist as the concept of an aryan nation.
Iran never fails to be in a position of hypocrisy and double standards.
Iran claims that racism is wrong, and then demands that we ignore the racism inherent in building a Iranian nation.
Iran claims Muslims are censored and excluded, and then they demand that their opponents be silenced.
Iran claims to be victims of slander and prejudice, and then they automatically divert from political discussions to make personal accusations about individuals being nazis.
this is just another example of Iran and its allies pressing the view that free speech on behalf of Iran and Muslims is a right, but free speech in opposition to Iran is wrong.
“taken in its entirety your little polemic is so infused with hatred that correcting you isn’t worth the trouble”
your addressing political points would be worthwhile, but my defending myself as an individual against the suggestion that I’m some sort of nazi would be a waste of time. I would be acknowledging the validity of diversionary personal attacks, and I would be supporting the falsehood that our personal characteristics are meaningful indications of the truth in broad political issues.
I stand by what I said, that a movement aiming to place people of a certain race in a certain location is inherently racist, that censoring opponents of israel is no less an attack on free speech than censoring proponents of israel, that making personal accusations about your opponents is always a poor means of defending a political point, and that zionists consistently demand double on standards on these matters.
if I’m wrong then correct me, but making personal accusations only goes to prove my point.
CTC – israel having no civil marriage is a civil rights issue, perhaps, but it is NOT a Jewish-Arab issue. Just as Jews must have Jewish religious marriages, under the authority of Jewish courts in Israel, Muslims must do the same under Shari’a courts (yes, ISRAELI Shari’a courts), and Christians need Christian religious marriages.
So, right, it’s anti-Arab. If group of people can claim they’re being discriminated against here – it’s atheists.
JL, congratulations! Sometimes I see comments that contain errors and I correct them. However, in your case, and hence the congratulations, not only is every point you make false, but taken in its entirety your little polemic is so infused with hatred that correcting you isn’t worth the trouble. I leave your comment to stand as an example to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch to see who they’re in bed with.
the concept of a jewish nation is as racist as the concept of an aryan nation.
zionism never fails to be in a position of hypocrisy and double standards.
zionists claim that racism is wrong, and then they demand that we ignore the racism inherent in building a jewish nation.
zionists claim to be censored and excluded, and then they demand that their opponents be silenced.
zionists claim to be victims of slander and prejudice, and then they automatically divert from political discussions to make personal accusations about individuals being closet neo-nazi terrorist traitors, or in the case of jewish opponents, self-hating jewish nazis.
this is just another example of israel and its allies pressing the view that free speech on behalf of israel is a right, but free speech in opposition to israel is wrong.
Hi,
My name is Da Ouad. I am 45 years old. I was born and lived in Islamic world until 1992. I am now a proud US citizen. I have suffered the effects of 8 major wars and have survived many racist laws and policies by the same clowns that are going to be performing in this circus.
I am so very very proud of the counties that are not part of this circus.
There ought to be massive, massive peaceful protest against this through out the world. For by keeping silent we are spiting in faces of people like my self and countless men, women and child still help captive to races policies and laws.
To the nations and individuals that have bestowed dignity to people like my self by boycotting this confrance and speaking out against it. My head bow to each and everyone of you in gratitude – Thank you for the depth of my heart!
Da Ouad