The Jerusalem Post comments wisely on Israel President, Moshe Katsav, as he speaks to the settlers just days before we enter the disengagement.
Here are parts of the speech, translation of which is available here in its entirety. I urge all to read below and then to click on the link and read the rest of it.
Dear Citizens, my brothers, the residents of the Gaza Strip and northern Samaria: We are confronting the most fateful decisions since the Declaration of Independence. In a few short days you will be requested, in accordance with the decisions of the government and the Knesset, to evacuate the Gaza Strip and northern Samaria.
And so we arrive at the difficult moment. The pain of abandonment is too powerful to bear. I feel your pain. Many among the people, regardless of their political identity, surely feel your pain.
We know that you settled throughout Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip because of the dictates of your conscience and in accordance with the decisions of [various] Israeli governments.
You founded flowering communities and raised generations of children and youth who are the grandeur of the nation and the state.In the name of the State of Israel, I beg your forgiveness for the demand that you leave after decades of building and sacrifice.
Your love of the nation and the Land are reminiscent of the pioneers of Jewish settlement. The spirit in you is the spirit of the founding fathers of Zionism.
We are deeply moved by the fact that you have stood bravely in the face of so many dangers, in the face of thousands of bombs, missiles and shootings. You’ve risked your lives and your families for your ideals and beliefs. You’ve known disaster and grief.
You were not broken. You did not threaten. You continued the momentum of building and fought a momentous battle. You have attained historic achievements.
After a year of difficult struggles and sharp debates, the time has come. You must respect the decision of our national institutions, the government and the Knesset, which even passed examination by the High Court of Justice.
Once the decision was made, it became the law of the land, which obligates us all.
THE KNESSET is the symbol of national sovereignty and expresses the will of the people. The voice of the majority is the same as the will of God. The voice of the Knesset is the same as the voice of the majority.
Despite the enormous tension between you and the government, the government is not indifferent to your opinions. The eyes of Israel and the whole world are looking to this struggle; to the ability of the state to make decisions.
The disengagement plan does not end your Zionist mission. We mustn’t speak in terms of destruction and finality.
You said “love will triumph.” And you were right. Despite the fractured dream, love must win. The pain, the rage, the disappointment and the criticism cannot replace caution and national responsibility. Despair cannot replace faith.
The opposition to the disengagement must not harm national security, democratic values and the most sacred values of Judaism, such as ahdut yisrael, the unity of our people.
Dramatic as the dispute may be, it does not justify a rupture in the nation. Even those who are convinced that this policy is mistaken and dangerous cannot act illegally for its cancellation. The right to protest and to shout, like the desire to replace the current government, does not justify the use of illegitimate means.
One step back but two steps forward. good move to get out IMO.
i dont think the knesset bothered to consult g-d on gaza. g-d has already spoken on this but it seems in a democracy he dont get a vote.
gaza is to be gone for now. a g-dless decision.
when g-d gets the final say it will be returned. sharon speaks for now only and times change. g-d sees to it.
You can excuse all you want.
Whatever they do they do for themselves with taxpayer money from all including the religious and including the settlers.
In the end they hold p[ower and anti-democratically don’t allow other the opportunity.
They are corrupt and G-dless.
Schmo, Katsav is representing a government that has funded religious communities and education in Israel to a greater degree, on a per capita basis, than secular communities and education. He represents a government that has maintained the status quo with respect to Orthodox rabbinate controlling key social aspects of life in Israel. He speaks for a government that has supported and funded the settlements for decades. He speaks for a government that has sent the IDF to protect those settlers, even when many of the soldiers were secular with homes inside the Green Line.
You ungrateful schmo.
Katsav is representing a government that mocks
G-d mocks the Torah allows abomination into the land and hates those that fear Him.
I hope TM that clarifies your confusion.
Since Im sure you haven’t read the portions of Isaiah read this time of the year Ill quote some for you:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et1001.htm
“21 How is the faithful city become a harlot! She that was full of justice, righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water. 23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves; every one loveth bribes, and followeth after rewards; they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. {S} 24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel: Ah, I will ease Me of Mine adversaries, and avenge Me of Mine enemies; ”
There is alot more there which I’m sure you have no interest in hearing…
So according to you, Simcha, we no longer deserve it but deserved in in 1948 and 1967? Hmmm, what was the difference between now and then? Wait for it…wait for it…wait for it…
The occupation!
So Simcha, what you mean to say is that our occupation of Gaza has made it so God doesn’t feel it is right for us to control Land and that we must give it away? Let’s hope that the only land we spit up is the land we’ve been choking on for these past three decades and we get to keep the other Land as well as those pockets that will ensure the survivability of that other Land.
Could somebody explain to me how people can believe what Simcha believes but Katsav cannot say to them that the government of Israel, representing a majority of people, is playing out the will of God?
Hashem is taking away the Land because we no longer deserve it. He sees how Jews are not keeping mitzvos and He is not only taking away our Gedolim but He is now also taking away the Land He only so recently gave us back. The Land is spitting us out because we no longer deserve to be here. This is our biggest wake-up call yet to do teshuva and try to nullify this decree/future decrees taking away our land. I live here and it is sickening and disgusting to see Jew against Jew. Every other Tisha B’Av has been about goyem coming after us but this year we have reached a new level where our own people are Hashem’s messengers that we are at fault. This truly must be the era of Moshiach, B’ezrat Hashem.
I don’t see any real difference between “God’s will” and “Fate”. I don’t want to get into a deep debate on choice vs. destiny, but I don’t think I need to for your example, which is a clearcut example of how ethics is sufficient to guide an individual with or without belief in God and/or Fate.
Is it God’s will that there is a plan for Disengagement? Sure. Is it God’s will that Israel keep the land or return it? Only God knows, so there is no point in using that as a rationale to do one thing or the other. If someone would claim “God put that land in my hand: He wanted me to keep it”, does that mean they would also believe it would be evil to return the land? That would have to be some screwed up morality.
It is clear to most people which choice is the one a selfless person would make, and which one a selfish one would make. Is it God’s will that you behave like a selfish or selfless person? Now we are back to choice vs. destiny.
Hi.
You have a wonderful blog. What software did you use to set it up. I’m a newbie 🙂
thank you culture jam for speaking up. Its not easy and I admire your courage. Too many Jews are silent, thanks for the guts you have!
That was a most unfortunate comment. It was also bizarre and out of step with the theme of the speech which otherwise, Muffti must confess, was quite beautiful and striking.
The Knesset is Gods will hmmm I think there is certainly a presedence of the Jewish government not doing Gods will it’s throughout Tanach. We got in alot of trouble for it like um 2000 years of exile and um genocide. Obviously the government can be wrong
the question is how wrong does she have to be before her citizens stop listening to her
Good Shabbos everyone
I understand how you feel about Katsav’s apology; I agree, it was decent of him to do so.
However, you also said “When things happen, they aren’t the will of G-d? If a Jewish state exists and one believes in G-d, does one not suppose this is G-d’s will?” indicating, since this was not prefaced by something like “The Orthodox believe that…” that this is what you yourself believe.
Then when I question you about it you come back and say “you believe that these are G-d’s will, not yours truly. I have no idea who or what is G-d’s will and do not presume to know”, while at the same time praising Katzav when he equates the vote in the Knesset to G-d’s will. I mean, which is it?
What is or is not G-d’s will is a sticky theological conundrum, I agree. But you should be a little clearer in what you say.
Mocking? Questioning someone’s line of thought isn’t mocking. Read my comment #4 again.
I wasn’t mocking at all but stating facts and asking relevant questions. I have my own doubts but that does not mean that I disrespect your or anybody’s beliefs.
Oh, and my beliefs were clearly stated in the post above. I respect what Katsav did and said here and I value the things he said, especially the respectful things directed at the settlers.
Shabbat shalom.
OK, Middle, next time you write, be clear that you are mocking someone else’s beliefs as opposed to stating your own.
The smarmy emoticon should do it.
The chutzpah TM is that the government is undeocratic and in violation of G-d’s will and they in fact don’t care about G-d.
They are all corrupt and uninterested in G-d they bring all types of abomination into His holy land then they say its the will of G-d.
What a corrupt and filthy lot the Knesset the president and the ‘High Court’ are.
Uh, Ephraim, you believe that these are God’s will, not yours truly. I have no idea who or what is God’s will and do not presume to know. It just strikes me as odd that somebody says, “This is God’s will or it wouldn’t have happened this way,” and others are saying,”Boy, it sure takes chutzpah to say that it’s God’s will.”
shabbat shalom.
http://cleave.blogs.com/summer/
That is the blog of a hard core Presbytarian anti semite who is a minister at Princeton no less.
We are trying to talk some sense to him and to the other anti israel bloggers there but we need your help!
Come and comment!
Devil’s Advocate mode ON
So, Middle, if we were to drive out all of the Arabs from Eretz Israel, that would be G-d’s will too, right?
And when Israel conquered Eretz Israel up to the Jordan River and reunited Jerusalem, that was also G-d’s will, right?
The only conclusion that can be drawn, then, is that the actions of the Israeli government are in contravention of the plain will of G-d as revealed through the miracle of Israel’s rebirth and the subsequent liberation of (most of) Biblical Eretz Israel.
If you are saying that whatever happens is G-d’s will, a lot of other, more disturbing, corrolaries can be mentioned as well. But of course you know this.
When things happen, they aren’t the will of God? If a Jewish state exists and one believes in God, does one not suppose this is God’s will? If a majority of people in the Jewish state continue to support the disengagement, is that not God’s will? Does God only intervene when the event falls in line with the views of certain members of the Jewish public?
I don’t think what he says shows chutzpah or hubris. I think that in what is a very conciliatory message that includes a heartfelt apology, he is indicating that there are other interpretations to what God wishes.
*sigh*
This will truly be the saddest Shabbos of the year.
I agree that that was a chutzpadik statement that alot of people will take issue with.
“The voice of the majority is the same as the will of God. The voice of the Knesset is the same as the voice of the majority.”
Therefore, the voice of the Knesset is the will of God?
So that’s who I’ve been praying to all this time!