😆

Yup, it’s that time of life I guess. As our readers know, I have a young son and as he grows, he likes to ask his father, The Middle, questions which are not so simple to answer. Previously, for example, he has asked whether god is made of atoms, and whether dinosaurs preceded man. Daunting questions to be sure.

So the latest came about inadvertently when a friend of his happened to mention that the Jews killed Jesus. Yup, considering these kids have yet to hit double digits in age, these are weighty topics to discuss. Needless to say, when he mentioned this to me, I almost had a heart attack and barely missed hitting the Camaro driving in front of me. Then again, I wasn’t all that concerned because the guy had a big cross hanging from his rear-view mirror which means that 1) he has lousy taste and probably has pretty ugly furniture at home, and 2) he may well believe the Jews killed Jesus. I mean, why not? Lots of people believe it – remember The Passion? How many times did the illustrious director/producer/actor Mel Gibson have the Jews in the crowd shout to Pontius to “kill him?” I lost count at 45 or so.

But, I am a darn good driver, and despite my advanced age the reflexes are still going strong. I swerved, missed the Camaro with the swinging cross and simultaneously began to grill my son. “Where did you hear that?! Who told you that?! What was your answer?!”

An astute observer of humanity in general, my son also knows his dad and immediately realized something was up. He covered up and changed the topic.

All of a sudden we were discussing Lego.

I like Lego and always have. I have fond memories of building hot air balloons with Lego when I was a kid, and have kept my son swimming in boxes of the stuff. So I allowed the topic to be changed to his latest bionicle toy. If you don’t know what Bionicles are, imagine the perfect moneymaking scheme devised to dupe parents.

…Getting back to Jesus the Jew and whether he was killed by fellow Jews…

The issue troubles me somewhat because I realize I can’t shield him forever from the outside world. The fact is that in some ways our very culture has been determined to some degree by the belief that not only was Jesus the messiah, but that he was killed because of Jewish treachery and actions. Of course, most Jews disagree and will refute these claims, but frankly, it is irrelevant whether we refute them or not because they belong to a much larger religion than ours and are something that to this day permeates many people’s beliefs even if their institutions do not really publicly endorse such positions.

So, any ideas on how to handle this portion of his upbringing? Should I just show him a photo of ck wearing a christ-killer ™ t-shirt and be done with it?

Lego genius from the Brick Testament

About the author

themiddle

57 Comments

  • I suggest building an elaborate Passion play out of Legos. You can use the little witch and skeleton Legos to represent the Jews, damned to all eternity, jeering Jesus as he bears the cross, which shouldn’t be hard to make at all. Then your son can understand why everyone hates us.

  • Apparently anchor tattoos were all the rage among Jerusalemites 2000 years ago. And when will Lego wise up to tzniut? Look at those whores revealing their block-shaped legs.

  • thanks for filling me in about the legoverse! Loved themiddle’s Night of the Living Dead especially (theology comes alive!)

    BTW, you didn’t forget to tell your son it was the Italians did you? Maybe we can convice Benedict to issue an apology for that? After all it was his own god they did it to. Penance: perhaps something along the lines of drinking water filled with ground gold?

    PS – are you telling me that they’re making Lego Jesuses now? What exactly are they expecting the kiddies to do with them? “Hey ma, look, I’ve just finished my lego Death Star, now Jesus is off to kick some Rebel butt!”

  • Here’s one possibility:

    “No honey, that’s a story Christians made up 200 years after Jesus was killed by the Romans because they were scared Jews would make them ask questions about their own religion. There’s a lot of other stories too, but their also made up.”

    Former Catholic priest, James Carroll’s “Constantine’s Sword: The Church and the Jews, A History” includes an excellent discussion of the Passion narrative and other church-based Anti-Semetism. Although it’s may years down the line… 🙂

  • You know, one of the saddest things to me is that HaSatan has caused a wall of division between Jews and Christians. Not all Christians believe that Jews killed Yeshua or believe in replacement theology.

    If all would take a closer look into the “Torah” they would discover that G-d himself provided the “sacrificial lamb”, and that Yeshua said, “No man take his life,” he laid it down freely to reconcile all back to G-d.

    The “Word” says that we “ALL” are grafted into the Jewish olive tree (Yeshua) so there is no advantage over the other.

    If you want to share something with your son then why not say to him that in the Psalms it says, Abba said who is his son and what is his name?
    There was no one group that sent Yeshua to the “tree” he did it for ALL MANKIND.

    We all need to pray that Abba would remove the scales from all eyes and look into the perfect law that has sat every man free.

    G-d himself will vindicate Israel and all that believe and will say Baruch Aba BaShem Adonai.

    May his shalom and truth, reveal AND tear down the wall of separation.

  • Because if we pepper our English with random Hebrew and Aramaic and avoid the “J” word, surely the Jews will join us! They eat that Hebrew shit up.

  • I am asked about that, made a mockery of, and blamed for that at least once a month by morons. Now I just say “back off or we’ll have a re-enactment”. Oh, and I avoid those people like the proverbial plague.

  • Well, unless you want to substitute Jews for Jesus for Jews killed Jesus, I would skip out on Sharon’s answer above.

    How about a real simple few lines: A long time ago, many Jews were hoping the messiah would come, because the Romans were being really mean to the Jews. Some Jews, and then other people, really believed that Jesus was the messiah, but all the other Jews disagreed. Like many other Jews at the time, Jesus was killed by the Romans and/or the Jewish authorities. While to us Jews, this proved conclusively that Jesus was not the messiah, other people kept believing it. They felt that if the Jews had helped Jesus more, he would have lived. This made them angry, so they said that the Jews killed him.

    Fine, you may have to tailor it a bit to the age group…my son’s only 2.5, anyway. For good measure, throw in any of the other myriad reasons why Jesus doesn’t at all fit the “messiah” billing.

  • Probing a bit deeper today, my son informed me that his friend’s many questions including the one above were really intended to ferret out one answer: why don’t the Jews believe in Jesus.

    Interestingly, this was not a significant question for my son but I did have to talk a bit about messiahs and sons of god.

    Thanks for the comment, Deetourdee, it made me laugh.

  • In a conversation I had with a friend, some time ago, he asked a random question, “why do people hate the Jews so much?” My knee-jerk answer was, “they killed Jesus!” I was raised Roman Catholic. I went to Catholic school, Catecism, First Communion, Confirmation, the whole bit; in all of my schooling, I don’t ever remember them teaching me that, specifically. But somehow that’s what I believed. In my subconscious mind that was my understanding. When I answered the question, I remember being shocked at how quickly the answer fell out of my mouth. I didn’t know why I answered that way. I just blurted it out. I didn’t even know any Jewish people back then growing up in el barrio back in Texas. At that point I probably didn’t even know where Israel was on the map. Today, of course, I don’t believe that way. I have a tremendous respect, admiration and love for Jewish people. I am, however, amazed me at how many people I know do think like I use to. If they (Christians) would only read for themselves what the Bible (Tanakh & Apostolic Writings) actually says, they would see that, like 1.5 said earlier, the Romans and the Jewish authorities killed Jesus. The Gentiles and the Jews. In other words everyone was involved. There’s no one person or group to blame but Satan who introduced sin in the garden. Jesus came to remove sin by being the final Passover lamb/Yom Kippur goat. This is why Jesus is seen as the “Messiah”. He fulfills the symbols of the Feast days. Anyway… I better stop here before I get in over my “water–sprinkled” head.

  • 1.5, the priesthood didn’t have the ability to issue a death penalty, so it was really just the Romans who did it. Also, maybe somebody could clear this up for me, but doesn’t Christian theology state that G-d sent Jesus to Earth specifically to die? Doesn’t that kind of lay the blame pretty squarely at His theoretical feet?

  • That’s too logical a question, Josh.

    Anyway, the “the Jews did it!” trope is what the shrinks call “transferrence”. Xianity teaches that the J man had to die because of the sins of man. Xians are taught to believe that they are personally responsible for his death. I know Jewish guilt is famous, but can you imagine what it must be like to grow up believeing that you killed G-d? The burden of guilt is unbearable, so they transfer it to us.

    It’s the same thing with the blood libel. They’re the ones who eat the flesh of G-d and drink his blood. You would go crazy if you really thought about what that meant. But they’re guilty about it, so they accuse us of those things of which they themselves are guilty.

    So when people call the Jews “scapegoats”, they’re more right than they know.

  • But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

    The main entry made reference to to Mel Gibson’s ‘The Passion’. A little known fact is that Mel Gibson’s hand is the hand that pounds the stake into James Caviezel’s (Jesus) hand. This is representative of Mel’s personal ownership for the crucifixion of Jesus – personal responsibility that is biblically based.

    Theologically speaking, anyone who believes that the Jews are responsible for Jesus’ death does not understand Christianity or the meaning of the Crucifixion.

    Jews didn’t crucify Christ. Jesus was sent to die for our sins. That means that sinners crucified him. “All have sinned, and all fall short of the glory of God.” People who are looking to assign blame would do well to realize that the Bible teaches that we are all personally responsible for the debt that Jesus paid with His life.

    Anti-Semitism is not scripturally sound, especially not when it is based on percieved deicide.

  • As much as I hate to get into a theological debate with someone who shares my name, I feel that there certainly is plenty of scriptural basis for anti-Semitism. I mean, hey, let’s examine this here King James Bible sitting on my desk:

    “I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
    [The Jews] answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
    Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, God.
    Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    Why do ye not understand my speech? Because ye cannot hear my word.
    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (St. John 8: 38-45).

    Or:

    “Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year. Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.” (St. John 18: 12-14)

    And:

    “Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die…Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend…” (St. John 19: 6, 12)

    And, of course, the classic:

    “When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to iy. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.” (Matt 27: 24-25).

    I’d say anti-semitism seems scripturally sound to me, or at the very least, that would be the conclusion a reader would reach without having been subject to Christian teaching that all humanity was responible for Christ’s death, which is by no means explicitly stated in the actual texts of the Gospels. The only people identified as crucifiers in the Gospels are, well, Jews. Hell, even the Romans come off pretty good. Pilate is depicted as attempting to intervene, only to be foiled by the Jews, and Luke has one of the Roman centurions at Golgotha praising Jesus’ righteousness. On the other hand, all three Synoptic Gospels feature a crowd of Jews at Golgotha jeering Jesus with some variation on “If you’re so great, why don’t you save yourself?”

    In the simplest terms possible, if it wasn’t so easily derived from the text, Christian anti-Semitism would never have existed in the first place.

  • The people who became Xians were Greeks and Romans, who already hated the Jews. The new Xians were weak and so they also had to suck up to the Romans so they wouldn’t get killed. Put those two things together, and you’ve got the foundations for the “the Jews did it!” trope. Anti-semitism predates Xianity, and since the NT was written by anti-Semites who had to suck up to other anti-Semites, it became, willy-nilly, an anti-Semitic book.

    It is true as (M)ichael says that people with a mature undersrtanding of Xian theology believe that it was their own personal sins that required the J-man’s death. But most people aren’t that sophisticated.

    And the plain fact of the matter is that Xian anti-Semitism is a fact of history, something that no one can deny. It may be the result of a misunderstanding of “true” Xianity, but that is neither here nor there. When an Xian says “you killed G-d!”, we assume that he is telling us what he really believes.

  • Thanks for the concuring thoughts TBLJ.

    One other thought for middle: Have your son suggest to the kid who called him a christ-killer that perhaps he should spend more time emulating how Jesus lived, rather than focusing on how he (supposedly) died.

  • The other child wasn’t taunting him. The other child was genuinely curious. He’s an intelligent and inquistive child who is Christian and this is his first encounter with a Jew that actually has some depth to it – they are good, if relatively new, friends.

    I don’t know where this young child picked up the Jews Kill Jesus bit, but I don’t believe it’s the home based on my interactions with the parents. It could be church or another boy, perhaps. However, the question was asked of my son in a way that makes it seem like it’s a natural and known fact that the Jews Killed Jesus.

    Michael, of course, is 100% right that it’s in the Christian scripture. That was Gibson’s point. When the Vatican came out with relative absolution for the Jews, many Catholics including Gibson’s family thought this was heresy.

    If I tell my son it’s a myth or a mere story, I open a pandora’s box of what is myth or story from all previous history he encounters, including ours. I’m not ready to do that with him yet. Also, I expose him to the possible anger of his Christian friends for whom Jesus’s crucifixion is a deeply held belief. If I tell him it’s true, I would be lying to him. The answer, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

    What I am telling him is that Jesus lived and died as a Jew. That we, as Jews, don’t believe there is any god other than God and therefore we do not believe that Jesus is the son of god. Also, we don’t believe he’s the messiah because the world remains as it was. That when people blame the Jews for killing Jesus, they forget he never stopped being a Jew. Also, that even though they like to blame the Jews, the killing of people the way Jesus was killed was a Roman practice. In fact, Romans were the ones who killed Jesus. When the inevitable argument that the Jews caused the death comes up, he now knows to say, “No, you’re wrong, the Romans killed lots of people that way and he was just one of many.”

    Next, I think I’ll take him to karate lessons so he can protect himself when they get angry…

  • ” remember The Passion? How many times did the illustrious director/producer/actor Mel Gibson have the Jews in the crowd shout to Pontius to “kill him?” I lost count at 45 or so.”
    man, jesus was a jew who lived in israel, its normal the crowd was jew,whats wrong here?
    that campaign agaist gibson is pathetic…

  • Remember Mel Gibson comes from a sect of christianity that still believes that the Jews killed their guy (Jesus)and his father is a halocaust denier.

  • “jesus was a jew who lived in israel…” (21)

    Exactly. Jesus was a Jew and so were his followers. You may find a “gentile” or two mentioned in the Gospels but the overwhelming majority of his followers were Jewish.

    Everything Jesus did was Jewish. He was circumcised on the eighth day. He observed the Sabbath. He read, interpreted and taught the Torah. When you read about him in a dispute with the Jewish Authorities, it’s usually because of a Halachic issue. He started a “sect” or denomination(?) of Judaism. He did not start a new religion but a new version of Judaism.

    Gentiles don’t enter picture until Paul comes on the scene well after Jesus’ crucifixion. His assignment was to bring the Gentiles into this new Judaism. Paul was sort of a Jew for Gentiles. Judaism, from what I’ve read and experienced, is an exclusive group. You can’t just walk up to the local synagogue and fill out a membership form. But Paul brought them into the synagogues and the Temple anyway and got a lot of flak for it. Jesus’ Judaism grew as both Jews and Gentiles joined. Eventually after Roman persecution and other events, Christianity was born. The new Christian “halachah” denounced everything Jewish. Paintings of Jesus with blue eyes and blond hair appeared and the rest is history.

    In a nutshell that is my understanding of the story. I am no theologian, but when I read the Gospels and Epistles I refer to the Torah and I keep in mind that these guys are Jewish. This has helped me understand the Scriptures in a way that isn’t anti-Semitic, but rather appreciative of the Jewish people. So much so that I’ve tried to join, but that’s another story…

    Middle you sound like you’re on the right track. I wouldn’t lie to my son either. The Santa Claus thing made me question Jesus’ existence when I was young. I thought, perhaps, he was a fairy tale too. I try to educate my kids about what other people may think of us and our beliefs. We try to discuss it before they experience it. I encourage them not to take comments personally but be polite, unless they are going to be physically assaulted. That’s when the karate lessons come in handy. My kids have amazed me with the way they’ve responded to difficult questions by graciously giving answers that have sent adults away scratching their heads. Another tactic that has helped me is standing up for them while they watch. This way I can model how to respond in a civil way, without compromising my faith.

  • You might consider tying the topic into a discussion about superheros if he’s into Bionicles (as my son is, and I have the low bank balance to prove). My son has asked whether superheroes like Bionicles (from the movies) and the Justice League are real, and we talk about how no, they aren’t real, but they are stories that we might like to think are real. We’ve told him that no one has superpowers, whether it’s Superman or this alleged son of G-d I keep hearing about. And we tell him that real heroes are people without special powers save those of strength and intellect, like firemen. Or Batman. Maybe we’re confusing him. But I do try to make it clear that no single person is perfect and right all the time, and that no person should be followed blindly. I suspect we’ll be repeating this conversation a lot. I in fact am just becoming reacquainted with Judaism because of the questions my son is asking me about creation. This parenting stuff is tricky.

  • no poor mel, he got his movie the first in america for weeks, and what did you earn? help the film with a stupid campaign with jews acting like hystericals following a few hollywood smart liberals who dont really care about antisemitism, just blaming gibson because he is not in their sect. Now they dont move a finger with Munich of course, its spielberg and kuchner,a movie that shows palestinian terrorists as poor old men playing violin in roma while mossad agents kill them with a few innocents, of course, the only agent with feelings and sorrows leaves the mossad and disowns israel and his family (that scene in which he returns to israel with his mother is unpresentable).
    Maybe Gibson is an idiot antisemite,but the movie is just the christian bible word by word,that jews killed jesus? yes and thounsands jews more like him who care… if christians celebrate the passion of that man because that meant their salvation thats their problem,but christians believe in that and that campaign converted Gibson a martyr for them

  • No Spaniard, you are wrong. There was no campaign against Gibson. The only campaign was Gibson’s bullshit “I am Jesus and the Jews are crucifying me” movie PR campaign. Basically, he took a single letter written by a member of the ADL and conveniently turned himself into a martyr of the BIG JEWISH CONSPIRACY. It was all bullshit and it remained bullshit throughout, although it made for great media fodder and publicity for his movie. It was show-business pure and simple, and he relied upon about a couple of millenia of ingrained Christian anger at the Jews to promote his film.

    As for whether his movie is true or not, dude that movie is not from the Christian Bible word for word. There are plenty of embellishments stemming from the antisemitic interpretations of a 19th Century nun. As you probably know, the Vatican no longer adheres to the events as depicted in that movie.

  • Since Mad Mel is a renegade from the Church who does not accept the authority of the Pope or the changes to Catholic theology and practice mandated by Vatican II, can he really be considered a Catholic?

    He sounds like the Catholic version of a min to me. I presume that mainline Catholics are required to believe that he is damned to Hell for eternity, there to burn forever in a lake of fire. Or be constantly torn apart by devils. Or to be submerged headfirst in a vat of boiling feces.

    Or whatever it is that happens Down There.

  • What a tangle web we weave when first we practice to believe.

    Jesus killed himself as the voices in his head told him he must. Was it god or satan (madness)? You decide.

  • From comment #6:

    ‘Yeshua said, “No man take his life,” he laid it down freely to
    reconcile all back to G-d.’

    John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
    John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
    John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    From comment #11:

    ‘…the Romans and the Jewish authorities killed Jesus. The Gentiles and
    the Jews. In other words everyone was involved.’

    Peter and John were arrested by the Saducees (Acts 4:1-3). Once they were
    ordered not to preach Jesus (Acts 4:17-18) and threatened (Acts 4:17,21),
    they were then released. Peter and John returned to the believers, and prayed:

    Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
    Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
    Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
    Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
    Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
    Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done…

    From Acts 4:27, FOUR NOUNS were/are involved:

    1) King Herod,
    2) Pontius Pilate (representing the Caesar),
    3) the Gentiles,
    4) the people of Israel.

    The words of David that they sited come from the second Psalm.

    From comment #16:

    “I mean, hey, let’s examine this here King James Bible sitting on my desk:”

    If you were to actually do this, then you would see that John paints a picture
    of a Jewish people divided, concerning Jesus. For instance, in addition to
    the references you provided, the Gospel of John also says:

    John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
    John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

    There were about five thousand of “those men” (John 6:10).

    again,

    John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
    John 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ, but some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
    John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh out of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
    John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.

    again,

    John 10:19 There was a division therefore among the Jews for these sayings.
    John 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
    John 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

    again,

    John 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him [i.e., Jesus]: but he escaped out of their hand.
    John 10:40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
    John 10:41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
    John 10:42 And many believed on him there.

    Although you accurately quoted:

    “Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took
    Jesus, and bound him, And led him away to Annas first; for he was
    father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same
    year. Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it
    was expedient that one man should die for the people.” (St. John
    18: 12-14)

    were we to: “…examine this here King James Bible sitting on my desk”,
    then we’d also see the original quote, context and commentary:

    John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
    John 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
    John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
    John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he sould gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
    John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

  • So, um, you expect people to believe that the New Testament cannot be interpreted in an anti-Semitic fashion, and that John wasn’t a raging anti-Semite, because he submits that a small number of Jews didn’t hate Jesus? Who not only didn’t hate Jesus, but converted to Christianity?

    What’s the message there? Simple. The only Jews who aren’t evil are the ones who recognize Jesus’ “messiahship” and therefore become Christians. Wow. How enlightened. Thanks, John! Thanks, scp! And good job refuting that whole “sons of the Devil” thing!

    Geez. 2000 years of killing and they try to to convince you that the New Testament can’t easily be used to justify anti-Semitism. Duh!

  • Well, if the “Christians” would actually read their Bible, they’d see that Jesus had to die in order for them to recieve forgiveness. So, if they feel like complaining and yelling, they’re protesting their own salvation. Not to mention, that Jews were no more responsible than anyone else. Theologically speaking, every Christian holds more responsibility in Jesus’ death than anyone else.

    Christian anit-semitism is the most backward, moronic and evil sentiments. It just proves people don’t even know what they believe in.

  • Things have not changed very much after 2000 years-there are still Jews that would want Jesus dead if he appeared today, and Jews that believe in him. The Jews that denied he’s the Messiah, wanted the Messiah to fit thir plans and desires-Jesus did not promise them freedom from the Romans, or prosperity and security in this world, so He was no good to them. The high priests correctly perceived him as a majot threat to them, after they learned he raised Lazarus from the dead. Seeing him enter Jerusalem while Jews were waving palm fronds,and clearing the temple from mercants, sealed his fate in the minds of the high priests: He had to die, or their whole established authority would soon be in big trouble because of this unafraid, radical newcomer.
    People have been assasinated for lesser reasons, as history shows.
    After that, using the Romans to do their dirty work was just a matter of assembling a band of Jews enraged with Jesus’ statement “I am the Son of God”, and take them with them in front of Pilate. It was very easy to blackmail Pilate, who was placed between a rock and a hard place:
    “We’ll let Ceasar know that you let go of a man who declares he’s King/ He stirs up the public, and Ceasar will hold you responsible for unrest”.
    Jesus had both supporters and enemied among the Jews, just like any other leader/king/president.
    Look at Israel today-Jews in politics fight among themselves, just like any other nation.
    So, yes, the Jews arrested and wanted Jesus put to death-that’s why they took him to the Romans. But not ALL Jews felt that way, because never ALL the people of one land feel the same way about someone or something. The ones who have power, they prevail. If the jews wanted to make a fair judgement about Jesus, they could have jailed him for days or weeks, and taken their time examining him and trying him, and so on. But no, everything was done real quick, because they had already decided he should be eliminated.
    As for people who hate Jews for his murder, the bible says “Do not judge, so you will not be judged” and “Vengeance is mine, said the Lord”.
    Yes, it had been foretold that the Messiah would be killed and his garments divided, hundreds of years before, by Jewish prophets. Yes, Jesus knew he would be killed, yet chose to enter Jerusalem triumphantly, knowing that this would provoke the high priests for sure. The fact that willingly he went to his death does not absolve those who betrayed and wanted him dead.
    What is totally amazing is that there are Jews who don’t believe he was the Messiah. Like a poster above wrote “He was not the Messiah because the world is still the same”.
    He ignores the fact that the basis of all Bible and God is FREE WILL. That God and Jesus strove for enlightened and voluntary love and faith, not for a magic act from God that would fix people and the world, whether the people wanted it or not. So, of course the world is still the same-people exercise their free will to make it so-they take these decisions every day.
    Some time had to pass after Jesus’ resurrection-it takes a long time for a new religion to spread all over the world, and 2000 years is not all that long at all. I guess when in god’s eyes there has been enough time for the world to learn and believe, when there is nothing more that God can show people to help them believe, the consequences will come. FREE WILL is at the basis of everything-God does not want TO FORCE people to believe. Sure, he could perform enough of such amazing miracles, that all would believe-but that is forcing them. Jesus made it clear saying “SEEK and you shall find”, “have FAITH”. God wants a two-way street between him and people, where if people do their part, believing and desiring and loving him, then he will do his. It cannot happen unilaterally, just from him, until the end-the judgement.

  • I would normally suggest you gain the slightest education about Judaism and Jewish history to understand the rejection of Jesus as Messiah and the Jewish idea of a Messiah, but that’s not really the area of expertise of brainwaished missionary “Jews”, so really I think it would be more convenient to tell you to just get bent.

  • It all depends on where you’re coming from: If you want to defend your beliefs and traditions above all, you will pick and choose information, Torah quotes, whatever, that supports your goal. If you truly want to know and have an open mind, you will gather together all the prophesies from the OT, all the words of Jesus, and then suddenly they all tie together and make perfect sense.
    More than anything, there is one thing that indicates that Jesus was the Messiah: The fact that he had common Jews as disciples, villagers, fishermen, who at the night of his arrest, and the days after his death, were just a team of scared, unsure people, hiding in fear. This same team very shortly traveled, taught, converted countries to Christianity, were imprisoned, and met horrific deaths-eleven of them: No one could have done these things if he did not KNOW beyond any doubt that Jesus was raised from the dead. No one would die defending a lie, knowing it was a lie. The apostles saw something, learned something, that transformed them to fearless evangelists, with what must have been very sophisticated and persuasive teaching-they had to be, to make the very sophisticated Greeks into Christians.
    What they saw, and learned, is in the New Testament, and it is the only thing that makes total sense. Only those who have already decided that the idea that the Messiah came and was killed is unacceptable to them, can ignore these things.
    What the Jews do, perverting the word of God, is no different than the Catholic church etc. that have added all sorts of things to their rules and beliefs, for their own purposes.
    For me, I understood the concept of Jesus’ blood being the price paid to God to absolve sin, only after I read all the OT and saw the passages on sacrifices and blood, and how God demanded the most perfect of their animals for their sacrifices to him. And when God the Just knew he had to put people to death (‘the wages of sin is death’ in the OT), God the Love himself gave the people the most perfect blood, with which to pay for the absolution of their sins and avoid death. It’s not a simple concept, but it makes sense, given that God is absolutely Just, which requires he punishes sin, and he absolutely loves the people, which required him to give them the most perfectly clean and healthy sacrificial lamb.
    But the Jews still don’t see it. Meanwhile they have spent the last 2000 years without a country, killed wholesale and hated almost everywhere, and even in the recent past, in their own land of Israel, still have to contend with enemies right at their door. Throughout the Jewish history, one tragedy after another. It seems as if God chose them, exactly because they were the most dubious, stubborn, narrow-minded people.

  • No, you see, when I said “get bent,” I didn’t mean “missionize and defame the Jewish people,” I meant “shut the fuck up and go away.”

    There’s a place for you people. It’s called a church. It ain’t here.

  • Jews live in Israel now, yet, in place of the Temple stands an Islamic shrine. Jews have never been able to rebuilt the Temple, yet they live under the Mosaic Law. Jews are not in Jerusalem as God’s chosen people-they rejected and reject God’s Son, and Gold rejects them-God had told the Jews in Exodus 19:5,6,”If you will obey me faithfully and keep My covenant… you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” However, the fulfillment of the covenant promises was subject to the condition: “If you will obey”.

  • Rachel, you wouldn’t happen to be the woman who told my son’s friend that the Jews killed Jesus?

    This dubious, narrow-minded and stubborn Jew with the dubious, narrow-minded and stubborn Jewish son has a message for you:

    Go away.

  • No, I’m not that woman. I’m not even too bitter that we Jews killed Jesus, because it was written that he would be the “suffering servant” and would be put to death (Isaiah 53). I have studied the rabbis’ words and find the reasons they reject Jesus are feeble, and man-made. What the uncensored Talmud says about him is beyond vile-it’s humiliating for the rabbis that were saying those words. Pride and dishonesty through the ages prevent us from admitting that trying to protect our religion and position, we killed our Messiah. For that, we also have to deny who he was, and thus, deprive ourselves from his Gift. You’re still doing the same. That’s all.

  • You’re not Jewish, Rachel. You’re a Christian. I don’t see why you’re ashamed of being a Christian. Be proud.

    And yes, I guess since most of Rome turned Christian, you may accept the blame for killing all of those fine, dubious, narrow minded, stubborn Jews, including the one you’re worshipping.

  • Assigning blame, circular speech, sophistry…doesn’t really benefit anyone…It’s a waste of time, while the important essence of things doesn’t get any closer. When I compare the vast meaning of Jesus’ teaching, to the superficial minutiae of ritual the Jewish tradition demands, I can’t help but see which is truer and superior. I guess the concept of “Grace” is lost on people who always want to extract a price for something….

  • Well, either my contention that Christian doctrine easily lends itself to anti-Semitism is true, or this bitch ain’t Jewish. Or both, for that matter.

  • “Imagine there’s no heaven,
    It’s easy if you try,
    No hell below us,
    Above us only sky,
    Imagine all the people
    living for today…

    Imagine there’s no countries,
    It isnt hard to do,
    Nothing to kill or die for,
    No religion too,
    Imagine all the people
    living life in peace…”

    John Lennon was on to something….wasn’t he guys?

  • I like to know the truth for myself, and I don’t allow tradition to dictate anything to me. Both Catholicism and Orth. Judaism have way too much man-made material in what they teach and want us to do-so I stay away. They’re all about control. When you read the new testament, there is a simple joy in its deep meanings, that is absent from anything else. Einstein said “No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
    It is those things I strongly dislike, as well as the rigid refusal of the Jewish people to see the fullfiled prophesies of the Tanak-that the new testament is a continuation of the old. The whole effort of god to make himself known to his people has been progressive-he gave the Law, but they still sinned-the Law was not enough anymore-he sent his son, with the way to absolve people of sin and defeat Satan’s death, and really show us what will be done for us. How people can’t see that this was the second huge stage of God’s relationship with us, is a mystery to me.

  • It’s like an evangelo-Chatty Kathy doll that pulls its own spring. Consider the other cheek turned. Now piss off.

  • You attack me rudely because you can’t find anything meaningful to say?
    Do you ever look at Jewish history and see the long past, full of uprootings, death, destructions of Jerusalem? What other country’s people could not even live in their country for centuries? How come Jews say “God delivered us from such and such” and they don’t say “God is sending us out of our land and ruins our city, like it says in the book. What if we’re wrong?”
    How can it be that the Jews are back in Israel after eons, and yet it’s impossible to rebuild the Temple-that symbol of Jerusalem? And that return to Israel was by agreements between Gentiles, (the reward for 6 mil. murdered Jews), not because the Jews managed it by themselves?

  • Jim R, what are you talking about? Some person comes on here with an antisemitic cocktail and suddenly all religion sucks? It sucks if you go to extremes and use your faith to hate, fight or exclude others. Otherwise, it can be a very positive and fulfilling force in people’s lives.

    Rachel, do you notice that nobody is arguing with you? You’re an antisemitic dolt. We got that already. Now piss off.

  • “It sucks if you go to extremes and use your faith to hate, fight or exclude others.”
    You’re such a hypocrite I’m bored to death.

  • Regarding the comment made by Deetourdee: “Now I just say “back off or we’ll have a re-enactment”. Deetourdee I see you really want your and your nation’s asses kicked again and again and again. Go on your knees and thank God for the Christians. Otherwise the Arabs will have pushed you into the sea ages ago.

  • What I’m talking about Middle:

    Is it worth being rude to be right?

    Does putting religion first leave others second?

    Should Moses/Jesus/Muhammad be judged by their religion or their behavior/message/humanity?

    Is threat of hell over heaven necessary for good behavior?

    Just asking….. 🙂

  • I want to add, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad have been largely judged by the behavior of their followers through the ages(something to think about followers). In this regard I would say Moses follers win in the least violent category.

  • Rachel, thanks for pissing off.

    Jim, I don’t think I have the answers to your questions and neither did John Lennon. He really was a dreamer. Is an entirely secular society superior to a religious one? I don’t know, probably about the same with different advantages and disadvantages.

  • You may say he’s a dreamer, but he’s not the only one. I hope some day you’ll join him and then world will live as one. 🙂

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