The Solution:
So the JPost reports that Israeli couples will be able to apply to a committee to request their choice of sex for their baby during the embryonic stage. Yes, the technology exists, and although the procedure has already been applied in certain extraordinary cases, this was highly unusual. Now it will become a more regimented process and many more couples will be able to take advantage.

Couples, even single women, who want to choose the sex of their baby in the early embryonic stage for social — and not just medical — reasons can now apply to a new committee appointed by the Health Ministry. The seven-member body, to be chaired by Prof. Vaclav Insler — chairman of the National Council for Gynecology, Neonatology and Genetics — will rule on whether pre-gestational diagnosis (PGD) will be permitted to select a girl or a boy.

The Problem:
Well, lots of Gush Katif parents are thrilled with this new sex selection committee because the Israeli government is seriously considering charging the youths who have been arrested for their road-blocking activities as criminals. The repercussions in Israeli society can be dire because the IDF may refuse their enlistment or reject them if they try to join high quality units.

If the youths are charged and convicted, they will face difficulty enlisting into the IDF and getting accepted into elite units, lawyers representing the protesters said Wednesday night. Their only way to prevent the IDF from seeing their criminal record is if Katsav pardons them before their enlistment.

Attorney Naftali Wertzberger – who represents almost all right-wing activists arrested in the Jerusalem area – claimed double the number of youths would have participated in Monday’s protests if it weren’t for their fear of having a criminal file opened against them.

The Obvious Conclusion:
Do you see the beautiful symmetry here? All that the parents of future road-blockers have to do is request baby girls instead of boys, and then they won’t have to worry about elite combat units and their offspring shall be free – FREE, I tell you – to block all the roads they want to their hearts’ delight.

I love Israel.

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  • Oy vey, you again with your gush katif fetish?

    No one in the history of Israel has been given a criminal record for blocking roads, forcing extended strikes at ports and airports, EXCEPT right-wing protestors of handing over land to Arabs.

    Dictatorial Police state where non-violent demonstrators are treated like enemies of the state.

    The end is definitely near. Just wait for martial law to be applied this fall in the Jewish state. Only then people will wake up.

  • ???? Please explain.
    Is getting arrested all you need to do to avoid army service?
    And if so, wouldn’t every 18-year-old stand in line to get arrested? What am I missing?

  • And what’s with the baby girls? Don’t they get drafted too (eventually)?
    Or is this a typical Israeli thing, we’re talking about here?
    To me, as a non-Israeli, this whole post does not make any sense.

  • Hey they could each have 10 boys and start their own militia, It would be great for all those single jewsih women out there too, ya know, even out the male/female ratio. I guess the obvious question is what about the girls, obviously theres no babies without girls, but I bet you would see alot more single women moving into the territories, if the ratio of men to women was like 4 to 1.

  • Hey look! We’re all shiny and new! The doctors were right…facelifts are painless.

    I was thinking about the implications that selecting the sex of babies would have on the singles scene in 20 years, when all of them start looking for boys to marry, and then, uh-oh! No boys. What? Oh yeah: same problem today. Right.

  • ok TM, this is a bit of a strech. Have girl babies now so in 15 years we can block more roads? Come on dude.

    Not to mention the fact that while road blocks, sit ins and other forms of peaceful protest may be inconvienient for those trying to get from point a to point b, they are a perfectly legit form of political protest.

    as Calev Ben David said in the Jpost (i’ll add in the link later when i find it)
    it’s their democratic right to protest government policy, even illegally, as long as they don’t resort to violence, and they’re prepared to pay the penalty mandated under law for their actions. That’s called civil disobedience, and its a trademark of any mature democracy.

  • Kim, Army service is generally seen in Israel as a positive thing.
    Being in an elite unit gives you a certian amount of honor and is often a stepping stone to a better career. It doesn’t have the same connotation as “the draft” did in America. But then, it’s really a whole different kind of army.
    And yes, girls get drafted too along with the boys, unless they are religious in which case they can choose to do National Service instead and do thier part that way.

  • Any time an ambulance or fire truck is unable to traverse a road in order to arrive at an emergency because of this “civil” protest, these people are guilty of a crime.

    Any time a business loses money because it is unable to fulfill its functions (delivering goods, having employees in place, food perishing because it doesn’t make it to the store on time, etc.), these “civil” protestors are causing economic harm and are guilty of a crime.

    The list goes on but you get the point. A peaceful demonstration is not one that absorbs the country’s tiny and already thinly stretched resources, like its police force. These people can demonstrate in front of the Knesset, or the Kiriyah (army headquarters) or the PM’s home. Blocking roads is not a “civil” protest.

    As for Calev Ben David’s comment, if that’s what you think makes sense here, then that’s okay by me if the state feels this behavior should be criminalized. Let’s be honest here, the reason you are seeing teenagers manning these roadblocks is that adults are sending them. The adults are sending the kids precisely because they know that it is very challenging for a state and an adult police force to handle young “offenders.” This is something the Palestinians did very effectively at the beginning of the war they launched in 2000.

    So if the adults are using the kids, the state can do little to protect itself other than to use the legal system to establish the threat that an offender will have his future military prospects harmed. Makes clear and perfect sense – nobody gets a pass.

    As for Laya’s perceptive comment that my idea only takes effect in 15 years or so when this genetically modified generation is old enough to burn tires and block roads, I say BRAVO LAYA for figuring out that I’m not serious.

  • Kim, you were answered about the respect and desire to serve well that can be affected. As for women serving, they do indeed and as we have pointed out recently, some are even beginning to serve in combat units. However, most combat units, and particularly the elite ones to which many of these highly motivated youths would seek to join, are all-male.

  • Blocking roads IS a civil protest TM. I don’t know where you get that it is not.

    A peaceful political protest is a form of disobedience we allow for in a working democracy, and there is plenty of precedent of it. Causing an inconvenience to the traffic is not the end of the world. Granted, its frustrating and it sucks for those trying to get to work, and sorry your ice cream melted, but it also kinda sucks for these people who have to pick up their lives and move 30 years after the state told them to please go live somewhere.

    Don’t make it out to be some sort of crime against humanity.

    Maybe one of the reasons many teenagers go to protests because most of them don’t have jobs, like the adults do? Not everything is a conspiracy. This cause in Israel has also become a Youth Movement of sorts, one that, like in the 60’s in America many teens with a lot of free time, energy and passion find that now they have a cause to direct it, and so they take up the ideology.

    But please, DO NOT compare sending teenagers to a civil protest to the sending teenagers to blow themselves up and kill civilians. I would expect more from you.

  • Kim,
    laya is more or less in line, but should also mention that this unusual punishment is specificly directed at the modern orthodox youth who view serving in the elite units as an ideal and their ratio in these units already far outweighs the seculars. In contrast, taxi and truck drivers might have been brought to station during their protests over the last year, but they were not arrested and released within a few hours.

    The road blocking ‘operation’ this week was named ‘nisui kelim’ which is usually an army term used to describe going to the firing range and firing off several rounds from everyones guns to see that they all work. The object was to try out the logistics and learn for mistakes for actual D-day when the roads into Gush Katif are closed. On that day, it is hoped that even adults will have no choice but to go into the streets.

    Anyway, my point is that you (and other whiners) are actually jealous of the fact that tens of thousands of youth can be mobilized for any cause. The left and seculars have virtually NO cause that they can pull kids away from tv or even sitting on a park bench doing nothing. You should actually be proud that Jewish kids feel strongly about something and are willing to stand up for a certain public’s rights.

    A simple search of your site reveals absolutely NO mention of the humongous Israeli histadrut labour union that regularly calls wildcat general strikes of certain industries or even the entire public sector virtually screwing everyone and their zeide waiting for an elective operation or Jews getting shipped over in coffins for burial in Israel. You liken the religious youth to being ‘sent’ by the adults, but when ‘liberal’ Amir Peretz (or Haim Ramon in the past) sent adults to block roads, burn tires, keep ships from being unloaded and have food just rot on board for weeks, then you are silent.

    If you’re going to have a blog, want to be credible and ‘the middle’, then stop being an ignorant hypocrite.

    What’s your idea for a peaceful demonstration, an empty field outside of town? Gimme a break.

  • Josh, do you think you’re talking to your teenage son? Whiners? Jealous? Seculars?

    Dude, they are sending their kids out to do their bidding, and the bidding is to stop a democratic process that has taken place and that a majority of Israelis support and want to happen. The government is bending over backwards with offers of money, land at Nitzanim, postponement for Tisha Be’av, but this isn’t enough.

    And you’re right, they are targeting this particular crowd with a severe punishment. Why? Because you find your opponent’s achilles heel and you attack it. This is an achilles heel for youth in Israel who are motivated to support the state and the IDF. Is it fair? If civil disobedience is fair, the threat of a criminal charge is also fair if it serves as a deterrent. Why do only the opponents of the pullout get to threaten blood in the streets and civil wars and scream about Nazis? The state has a right to take steps to counter.

    As for the Histadrut union calling strikes? I want the Histadrut to be disbanded. I’m not anti-union, but I am anti-that-particular-union. I think they gravely harm Israel with their strikes and should be stopped. I do not support that union or many of it’s activities. If the same few hundred thousand workers would be divided into a number of unions, I’d be much happier. And yes, they have a right to strike, but because they are so large, the state – not some company seeking to make a profit – often finds itself unable to implement decisions that could improve Israel’s economy. I don’t think that’s reasonable and oppose it.

    Get the consistent posture, Josh?

    My idea of a peaceful demonstration is what the settlers did by creating that huge link of people. When they stood outside the Knesset for days and protested, I thought they were within their rights. They can have huge gatherings in Rehavia, outside the PM’s house. Okay? Don’t block arteries that move the economy of the country and that move emergency vehicles.

    Laya, teenagers do have jobs, it’s called going to school. Somebody is encouraging to miss school, and sometimes it’s the schools themselves.

    With respect to your misunderstanding of my comment about Palestinian children, it’s okay, you want to be angry for no reason so I hope you let off some steam. If you recall, at the beginning of this war the Palestinians used to have mass demonstrations, usually led by children. Remember the whole media circus around stone-throwing children and how they get killed or injured by the brutal IDF? Those were orchestrated demonstrations, Laya, by adults who saw the opportunity to show a tough uniformed force taking aggressive steps against kids. Yes, there are diffences, I don’t see adult settlers showing up with guns blazing halfway through the demonstrations, but in terms of propaganda, what these opponents of the pullout are doing is no different than what the Palestinians did (and very effectively, I might add).

  • It’s supposed to read “its activities” not “it’s activities.

  • You can edit your comment TM … I think. But yeah, if I may interject, orchestrated or not, those aren’t children demonstrating against the pullout – those are teenagers, a few short years away from their own army service I might add. Not only that but they aren’t endangering themselves nor are they endangering others. Don’t even get me started on the Histadrut and their strikes… but anyway – there’s a bit of a difference, dontcha think? I mean it’s as if orchestrating a demonstration is a bad thing. Ring! Ring! Hello? Athens calling! They want their democracy back!

  • TM wrote but in terms of propaganda, what these opponents of the pullout are doing is no different than what the Palestinians did (and very effectively, I might add).

    umm, violent (stone throwing) vs. non violent (sitting in road). I see a difference, don’t you?

  • Um, yeah, I guess. Sometimes the stones were dangerous, and more often they were not. Anyway, the settlers in Yitzhar threw stones and injured soldiers if you really want to get into it. As far as I’m concerned, it’s the same type of propaganda. The Israeli soldiers weren’t shooting at the stone throwing Palestinian kids, they were shooting when the Tanzim guys showed up behind the kids and began firing at the soldiers. To the media it looked like uniformed goons harming innocent little puppies. Same as here. If this isn’t the purpose, tell me why the parents aren’t demonstrating.

  • Right, i love those soft, non-dangerous stones they usually throw. Hehe, they tickle.

    Never thought you’d be one to make ridiculus comparisons of moral equivilancy TM. Really, I’m surprised.

    Teenagers are nice pretty for the cameras and sensational for the press (and the blogs) but are you trying to say that adults are not demonstatring? That it’s an an 18 and under show? please dude.

    and you haven’t addressed the democracy issue.

  • My thanks to laya and themiddle for clearing that up. I had no clue.

  • Democracy allows road blocking with burning tires? Sure, I’ll try that tomorrow down the street and see how long before I get a medal from somebody for defending democracy. If they ask me, I’ll tell them I’m protesting the recently passed law preventing obese people from suing fast food joints and that as an obese person I have a democratic right to stop all traffic at my pleasure.

    Adults are demonstrating and kids are being placed on the front lines of the road blocks. Are there adults there? I don’t know because the article mentions 90 kids under 18 in detention but makes no mention of adults.

    As for stones, you haven’t addressed the fact that stones were used against the IDF in Yitzhar. That is no different than Palestinians doing the same. Sorry. You also haven’t addressed the fact that road blocks can cause harm if a fire truck, police car or ambulance cannot get to a crisis quickly enough, if at all. Is that not a form of violence if you’re a heart attack patient who doesn’t receive treatment on time? You also haven’t addressed economic harm. How much money is lost because of these road blocks? Is that not a form of violence? And what is the cost to Israel’s security? Are you going to train new policemen to maintain the same functions that are being lost now? If a terror warning comes through and instead of protection and attempting to intercept the bomber the policemen are busy rounding up 16 year olds sent by their chickenshit but clever propagandist parents, will you blame that on Sharon and the pullout? Or will you tell us (as did one of our posters here) that this is a service to the country because it reveals the weaknesses of the police?

    Furthermore, and most important, WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT? Who are they trying to piss off? Oh wait, I know, they want Israelis to know that if it’s going to be this hard to remove 8000 settlers, imagine how difficult it shall be to remove West Bank settlers.

    Too bad the fence will take of that for them. 😉

  • TM, you wrote: “the bidding is to stop a democratic process that has taken place and that a majority of Israelis support and want to happen.”

    –I apologize but Israel is NOT a democracy.

    30% of the country would favor what rabbi Meir Kahane advocated. That is a removal of the hostile arab population from Israel.

    It is illegal to have a party that advocated the removal of the hostile enemy-the only honest solution in my opinion.
    It is ‘illegal’ in Israel to wear the star-fist symbol.
    -did you know that? Well now you know.

    So don’t tell me about ‘democracy’ in Israel. people resort to demonstrations because the feel trapped. They are disenfranchised and are told that their opinion doesn’t count and cannot be heard.

  • Joe, um, if you want that hateful party in there so badly, just get them more votes.

  • TM, Ummm read what I wrote.
    There is no party ALLOWED.
    NO democracy=NO voting.
    If you want I can explain it slower.

  • The punishment should fit the crime TM I think it would be more reasonable to fine the demonstrators or the parents but to ruin their futures thats just wrong. There are protests blocking US streets very often here, the government doesn’t blacklist them and never arrests any of them unless they get destructive or violent you and the Israeli Government are deffinately overreacting

  • well TM, if its you they are trying to piss off they’ve sure done a mighty good job.

    If you want to go thru a list of things we havent addresed, you haven’t addressed the fact that histarut srikes cause much much more economic harm to the country then road blocks. Those happen much more often, where is your outrage there?

    In any case your blinding hatred for these people really won’t allow for much meaningful dialogue. You will believe that they are evil incarnate no matter what anyone writes, particularly me. You’re off base on the democracy issue. But plese if you’re going to be burning tires, don’t do it on shabbat.

    I don’t have the time to spend my friday afternoon banging my head against the computer screen…gotta go get ready for shabbat.

    shabbat shalom TM. Have fun driving to the park!

  • Laya, if I understood you last comment correctly, it went something like this: “I don’t have an answer, so I’ll bring up the Histadrut, a straw man that you have already addressed by expressing disdain for their actions and their organization. Also, I can only justify my surprise at how you don’t see my point of view by blaming you of “blinding hate” even though you never have written any such thing anywhere. But then again, it’s a good accusation to make because, um, it’s a good accusation to make and that way I can walk away from this debate dismissing everything you’ve written because I claim that it obviously comes from hate.”

    Laya, if you’re going to try to manipulate the discussion, use a little more tact and sophistication next time. Please.

    No, Laya, I don’t hate “these people” or even intensely dislike them. Some of them are good people, some are bad people, some are good looking and some are ugly. Some like Idan Reichel and some are morons. Some have their heart in the right place and some are loonies.

    I don’t hate them. I don’t hate settlers. I don’t hate Orthodox people. I hate Nazis and Neo-Nazis. I hate people who hate Jews enough to take steps to harm Jews. I hate people who hate anybody enough to harm them for any reason. That is the sum total of people I hate.

    If you claim that the roadblocks are quaint and fine. Good. We disagree. If you think these people are right to protest. Good. We agree. You don’t like the criminal record the Israeli government wants to hand these kids? Get their parents to do the dirty work and their kids will not be affected. Simple.

    And thank you for your kind shabbat wishes, even if there may have been a tinge of hostility there. Shabbat shalom to you as well.

  • Clearly you didnt understand my comment correctly.

    You don’t have to write the words “blinding hate” for it to come through very clearly TM. Don’t dilude yourself.

    I don’t even mind the arrests, i havent mentioned that once. But it is still thier right to protest a government decision to kick them out of thier homes. And I’m proud to be living in a country where that is more or less understood.

    out to buy food….

  • Laya, if you want to debate, then debate. If you want to throw out idiotic accusations because it makes you feel better, or alternatively helps you to avoid answering thorny questions that contradict your position, understand that the only thing I take away from your comment is one or two perceptions of you: 1. you have no response to my arguments; and/or, 2. you are a very poor judge of people and their character.

    Neither of those perceptions is necessarily related to life experience because people can be much older and be poor judges of character, but in your case, having met you and thinking of you as a bright individual, I have to think it’s your youth. Why not focus on the topic instead of me (he says for what must be the 17 millionth time)? Thanks.

  • TM, what part of the Friday afternoon rush doesn’t makes sense to you? I have guests coming, and don’t have the time or the energy to get into lengthy, futile debates with you.

    You have much more Koach for the fight than I do. You will get into debates on other sites with people who call Israel an apartheid state and the worst human rights violator in the world. I have respect that you do it, but I just don’t have it in me to argue with people who are so convinced they are correct nothing you say will shake them.

    I have never found that debating with you is fruitful and have never witnessed you budge from a position, and really don’t need your frustrations today of all days. I usually just don’t get into it with you. But on the occasion that i do, please don’t throw accusations my way because i cannot free up several hours to go back and forth and back and forth with you ultimately arriving at no conclusion. You’ll have to forgive me.

    If you need to feel you’ve “won” the argument because of this, take it dude, it’s all yours.

    But dude, for someone who dishes it out on a regular basis, you are mighty sensitive. You routinely throw personal attacks and routinely get upset when they come your way.

    You can’t accuse someone of being a “very poor judge of people and their character” and tell them ” if you’re going to try to manipulate the discussion, use a little more tact and sophistication next time. Please” and get upset that I…what? sense a hatred that comes through loud and clear in how you write about settlers?.
    Grow some thicker skin, or stop getting personal yourself.
    It’s unfair to ask to have it both ways.

  • Laya, you don’t like it when I make it personal? Good. You’ll note how gentle I was, too.

    I come to Jewlicious for the conversation, dialogue AND FUN, and can well find and fight my battles elsewhere. How about you focus on the debate instead of “sensing” things about me like whom I hate or whether I have a thick skin?

    Look at it this way: we can be friends, we can have fun, we can enjoy the challenge of coming up with a response to the other’s interesting and challenging points.

    It’ll be, uh, Jewlicious. Think about it, and think how we came to be having this discussion instead of laughing about the stupid suggestion that they could solve their political problems by only having baby girls.

    Now, take a deep breath.


    Relax some more.


    Have a lovely Shabbat with your guests.

  • oy. TM. just Oy.

    I didnt complain that you were getting personal, i complained that you were hypocritical about it.

    Laya shakes head. give up. closes window, returns to kitchen, forgets this all.

  • [INT: A studio apartment in NYC. ESTHER, a ravishing almost-redhead approaches a windowsill. She leans on it, like the weight of the internet is on her shoulders. Straightening up, she walks over to her bed and throws herself on it, weeping sadly into the pillow.]

    And this is why I don’t talk politics. Or if I do, I allow that, unless the opposing party adheres to some sort of baby-enslaving platform (you know, like Kathie Lee Gifford), they are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to disagree, and we can do it all respectfully, from a place of groovy hippie-style love. And that’s what family’s about. Shabbat shalom, kids. Don’t make me come over there and smack y’all.

  • Esther, why avoid politics? It’s better to just treat all others respectfully, unless they’re Nazis and their like.

    Don’t worry too much about it, Laya and I obviously have some issues to work out. And they will. It just might take some time. 😉

    Shabbat shalom!

  • TM, Here are two links since you are apparently in the dark.

    In 2002

    Oct 2004

    The fact that at least 1/3 of the population is disenfranchised is well known. So what do you expect when they are getting killed-they shouldn’t demonstrate?

  • I think there a problem with the site. I’ll just keep trying.

    ck, do you know why this site is deleting comments?

  • Forget Gush Katif. As a nurse-midwife who works in a Jerusalem fertility clinic, I can tell you that if couples can pick the sex of a baby, the requested sex will be male most of the time. For the haredim, who are having most of the babies, girls are definitely less desireable.

    BTW, the hypothesis that having female babies now will mean fewer soldiers in 18-19 years is rather tenuous. Girls in the IDF are in combat units these days, and even can try to become pilots in the Air Force. Besides, who knows what the IDF will be in 2 decades? Even now, there are so many young men of draftable age it’s very hard for the IDF to cope with each induction. An end to universal service, or even the establishment of a volunteer army, are not beyond belief these days.